What have we come to

Brendan Bendar · 22-02-2020 02:06PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ffg wont allow that, normal service will resume soon

What!!!

Stability....!!!!

Aaah heeeyur.... we have enough of that..

Wanderer78 · 22-02-2020 03:36PM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

What!!!

Stability....!!!!

Aaah heeeyur.... we have enough of that..

we may have stability, but we also have stagnation for some of our most critical of issues

lawrencesummers · 22-02-2020 03:41PM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Whoooooy?

Apparently there has been a huge vote for ‘change’.....:eek:

Out of interest bren, is there anything about a FFG that you don’t like?

Shefwedfan · 22-02-2020 03:44PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

SF more than likely won't be in government, ffg will see to that

Hahahahahahaha

Shefwedfan · 22-02-2020 03:45PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Out of interest bren, is there anything about a FFG that you don’t like?

Better question, what do you like?

GreeBo · 22-02-2020 03:48PM

storker wrote: »

I'd want to see evidence of how it was done; evidence of the process. You seem to think the the outcome is sufficient evidence in itself - incidentally, this is not unlike how creationists argue.

Seriously? Is that a trick question? I'd start by looking for specific policies or specific budget adjustments that were intended to create more economic activity, and then look at the economic indicators that one might expect to see increase as a result of each policy to make a judgement about its efficacy, and them amalgamate the changes brought by all these policies to see if they come anywhere near accounting for the increase in growth that was shown in the statistics.

Unless you are prepared to present some evidence to support your claim, it would seem that you're just being credulous and happy to believe something simply on the basis that someone you want to believe has told you it's true.

All we have is a claim that economic growth happened because of FG; that FG was the miracle ingredient without which the growth couldn't have occurred. All I'm asking is, how did they do it? It's a simple enough question, but it's one I've never had an answer to. The response is usually a bit of bluster about this or that, followed by a sound not unlike blowing tumbleweed.

It's no surprise to me that you don't have the answer, because FG don't appear to have it either. I have no doubt that if they did, they'd have been proclaiming it loudly, and they weren't. Perhaps it's a secret... :eek:

But how can you prove that the policy caused the result?
Or is it only FG who you deny this logic?

Btw I don't think anyone said fg were a magical ingredient or that it couldn't have happened without them. The fact however is that it happened with and under their government.
Can you give any example of what could have caused Ireland to outperform the euro zone other than fg policy?

Brendan Bendar · 22-02-2020 03:53PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Out of interest bren, is there anything about a FFG that you don’t like?

Plenty L..... plenty.

Shefwedfan · 22-02-2020 03:53PM

SF has been part of power sharing in Northern Ireland for how long now and how is the economy going for them?

It’s a f**king basket case last time I looked, at the moment if they wanted Ireland to join we can’t afford to take on the mess SF have made of the north

Brendan Bendar · 22-02-2020 03:55PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

SF has been part of power sharing in Northern Ireland for how long now and how is the economy going for them?

It’s a f**king basket case last time I looked, at the moment if they wanted Ireland to join we can’t afford to take on the mess SF have made of the north

Correct... hand out already for the Brits shilling.

Total mess, and these clowns are agitating for a border poll!!

Incredible.

Mr. teddywinkles · 22-02-2020 05:40PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Housing needs to be nationalized to be resolved. The private sector is never going to fix the problem because they only want to profit from building.

It’s not complicated. For the government to solve the housing problem they need to build public housing on public land. Not Sell the land off cheap to have a developer do it where they release enough units at a time to the market that keeps the price high and gifts 10% of the houses to the state.

FFG are buddy buddy with developers, this will never change. They would sooner rent hotel rooms and pay private landlords millions through HAP than build a stock of houses that they own because the people that will lose the most are builders and developers.

It's kinda hilarious when people say builders should build for charity or something along those lines. Does the pharma sector work for the good of people. Or the tech industry.

storker · 22-02-2020 05:45PM

GreeBo wrote: »

But how can you prove that the policy caused the result?
Or is it only FG who you deny this logic?

No, I would treat all such claims with equal skepticism where someone claims to have achieved something without offering up any explanation as to how they did it.

Btw I don't think anyone said fg were a magical ingredient or that it couldn't have happened without them.

I don't think you've been paying attention.

The fact however is that it happened with and under their government.

Which proves nothing with Ireland being such a small open economy subject to outside events.

Can you give any example of what could have caused Ireland to outperform the euro zone other than fg policy?

Someone already has earlier in the thread, by pointing out that Ireland has more trade with the UK and US, both of which exited recession before the EU. Now, I'm not the one to judge whther that's right or wrong, but just in itself it's more credible by several orders of magnitude than "FG did it by...er...er...they just did it OK?". But, again, it's for people making the claim to back up the claim...or admit that they can't, and are just happy to believe whatever they're told.

growleaves · 22-02-2020 06:48PM

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

It's kinda hilarious when people say builders should build for charity or something along those lines. Does the pharma sector work for the good of people. Or the tech industry.

Er, nationalisation isn't building for charity. Do doctors on the NHS work for no wages? Think again.

Shefwedfan · 22-02-2020 06:56PM

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

It's kinda hilarious when people say builders should build for charity or something along those lines. Does the pharma sector work for the good of people. Or the tech industry.

I wouldn’t worry, it was already pointed out to that poster how ludicrous his idea was, but sure what can you do

Wanderer78 · 22-02-2020 07:18PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Hahahahahahaha

oh laugh away

Shefwedfan · 22-02-2020 07:30PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

oh laugh away

I will, first off because it shows a vote for SF is a wasted vote as they don’t want to go into government, better off hiding and throwing mud

Wanderer78 · 22-02-2020 07:31PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I will, first off because it shows a vote for SF is a wasted vote as they don’t want to go into government, better off hiding and throwing mud

the numbers arent there for an sf lead government, and again, ffg simply wont allow one

Shefwedfan · 22-02-2020 07:33PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

the numbers arent there for an sf lead government, and again, ffg simply wont allow one

Hard to form government when Mary Lou spends all the time shooting her mouth off to RTÉ, I said it days ago she should have been talking to the parties not RTÉ, if she was interested in forming a government but they have no interest

Wanderer78 · 22-02-2020 07:33PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

the numbers arent there for an sf lead government, and again, ffg simply wont allow one

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Hard to form government when Mary Lou spends all the time shooting her mouth off to RTÉ, I said it days ago she should have been talking to the parties not RTÉ, if she was interested in forming a government but they have no interest

......

Shefwedfan · 22-02-2020 07:59PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

......

You seem to struggle to understand to create a government Mary Lou should talk to other parties and negotiate. Like FF and FG done before

Talking to RTE will not create a government, but then again she doesnt want to create one,,

Eric Cartman · 22-02-2020 08:16PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Out of interest bren, is there anything about a FFG that you don’t like?

The answer to FF / FG not doing what you want is not SF.

44% of people voted for your little snide ‘FFG’ , 24% of people voted for SFIRA

jprender · 22-02-2020 08:22PM

What is it with the ‘FFG’ thing by the way ?

Is it the same thought process as saying ‘SFIRA’ ?

Eric Cartman · 22-02-2020 08:32PM

jprender wrote: »

What is it with the ‘FFG’ thing by the way ?

Is it the same thought process as saying ‘SFIRA’ ?

Going to start using that actually....

James Brown · 22-02-2020 08:32PM

quokula wrote: »

The thing is that stats are based on reality, not some isolated anecdotes and misery junky stories shared on social media by perpetual moaners.

To give some more real figures - SIMI stats show new car sales in Jan 2020 were up by over 50% from 2012. That's 50% more families who have enough disposable income to buy themselves a car that couldn't do that 8 years ago.

The same stats showed that light commercial sales doubled, probably an even more telling sign of a buoyant economy for tradespeople, with a market less impacted by uncertainty around diesels, electric vehicles etc than private sales.

To take another stat, in 2011 Dublin Airport carried 18 million passengers while in 2019 it carried 32 million. That's some combination of a hell of a lot more people who can afford holidays, mixed with a lot more people being attracted to visit here from abroad too.

I couldn't find absolute figures for retail sales but they've been in positive growth every year so clearly they've been doing a lot better in 2019 than 2011 too. Yet another sign that people typically have more disposable income to enjoy life with.

Housing is going to get more expensive when so many more people have so much more to spend. Building is picking up pace however and we've already seen prices level off over the last year.

Anyone who's trying to depict the country as some kind of hell hole where nobody can afford to live a decent life really needs to get some perspective on what it's like in pretty much every other country. There's a reason why Ireland is so often near the top of international quality of life measures, such as the UN's Human Development Index which puts us third on the planet behind Norway and Switzerland.

So apart from a few chancers and whingers everything is going well?
Why di you think FG preformed so poorly in the election? Misery junkies and perpetual miners?
The longer FG go on the more the state will need pick up the slack with rental aid and the like. It's not sustainable.

Shefwedfan · 22-02-2020 08:39PM

Bowie wrote: »

So apart from a few cgancers and whingers everything is going well?
Why di you think FG preformed so poorly in the election? Misery junkies and perpetual miners?
The longer FG go on the more the state will need pick up the slack with rental aid and the like. It's not sustainable.

They lost 2% of the vote since last election

Most of those lost votes lost because people wanted a protest vote, some actually thought SF might do what they said, but the protest vote in end will be useless as SF are full of hot air, really Ireland needs a labour or someone decent to rival FF/FG

James Brown · 22-02-2020 08:45PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

They lost 2% of the vote since last election

Most of those lost votes lost because people wanted a protest vote, some actually thought SF might do what they said, but the protest vote in end will be useless as SF are full of hot air, really Ireland needs a labour or someone decent to rival FF/FG

You don't know that. Any vote for another party could be deemed a protest vote.
Its arrogant to presume people are going elsewhere without thinking it through.
Why would people move away from FF/FG year on year if what they provided was actually improving the public's lot?
The whole concept peddled by FG that the electorate got it wrong is arrogant and very unhealthy for the country especially if FG get back in in some form.
Instead of looking at why, FG are looking to score points like brats.
FG need look at themselves not sling mud at other parties and the public.

Shefwedfan · 22-02-2020 08:52PM

Bowie wrote: »

You don't know that. Any vote for another party could be deemed a protest vote.
Its arrogant to presume people are going elsewhere without thinking it through.
Why would people move away from FF/FG year on year if what they provided was actually improving the public's lot?
The whole concept peddled by FG that the electorate got it wrong is arrogant and very unhealthy for the country especially if FG get back in in some form.
Instead of looking at why FG are looking to score points like brats.
FG need look at themselves not sling mud at other parties and the public.

It was a protest vote, everyone knows it including SF, even check on here. Voters had no idea who the politician was who they voted in, what’s the SF manifesto was or anything. Just voted SF and now regretting

Pity is as I said I would actually like to see SF go into government because I think they will be found out but Mary Lou knows this and doing everything on her power to not go into government and blame the other parties

If SF went in now they know they will be kicked out come next election, if they don’t they can hide and sligh mud for next few years, that’s the SF way

At that stage hopefully I will have retired early and moved to Malta, no longer have to worry about the silly Irish voter

James Brown · 22-02-2020 09:03PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It was a protest vote, everyone knows it including SF, even check on here. Voters had no idea who the politician was who they voted in, what’s the SF manifesto was or anything. Just voted SF and now regretting

Pity is as I said I would actually like to see SF go into government because I think they will be found out but Mary Lou knows this and doing everything on her power to not go into government and blame the other parties

If SF went in now they know they will be kicked out come next election, if they don’t they can hide and sligh mud for next few years, that’s the SF way

At that stage hopefully I will have retired early and moved to Malta, no longer have to worry about the silly Irish voter

Everyone I know voted to get away from FF/FG. The protest was always FF to FG and vice versa. This is common knowledge. How else would two sets of wasters from the same mould ever get in in the first place?
FF/FG know they are screwed if there's a viable third option, be it SF or whomever that's why they are so bitter and nasty.

Well obviously you couldn't care less about the country or your neighbours so FG sounds like a good fit.

quokula · 22-02-2020 10:21PM

Bowie wrote: »

You don't know that. Any vote for another party could be deemed a protest vote.
Its arrogant to presume people are going elsewhere without thinking it through.
Why would people move away from FF/FG year on year if what they provided was actually improving the public's lot?
The whole concept peddled by FG that the electorate got it wrong is arrogant and very unhealthy for the country especially if FG get back in in some form.
Instead of looking at why, FG are looking to score points like brats.
FG need look at themselves not sling mud at other parties and the public.

When the electorate vote for flag waving nationalist lying charlatan populists who promise the moon without a lick of a plan to deliver it then, yes, they got it wrong, as much as it would be political suicide for an actual politician to claim as much.

Brexit was wrong. Trump was wrong. Salvini was wrong. SF would be wrong.

However the Irish electorate didn’t actually vote for SF, over 75% of Irish people knew better than that, so most of the electorate are just fine, as much as some people seem to like to ignore.

olestoepoke · 22-02-2020 10:23PM

quokula wrote: »

When the electorate vote for flag waving nationalist lying charlatan populists who promise the moon without a lick of a plan to deliver it then, yes, they got it wrong, as much as it would be political suicide for an actual politician to claim as much.

Brexit was wrong. Trump was wrong. Salvini was wrong. SF would be wrong.

However the Irish electorate didn’t actually vote for SF, over 75% of Irish people knew better than that, so most of the electorate are just fine, as much as some people seem to like to ignore.

How do you know that any of the 75% you talk about didn't have SF 2nd on their ballot?

JamesM · 22-02-2020 10:46PM

If SF had got into government this time, they might have done well for the first year, because FG has already got the building program set up for next year. But by year 2 they would be out - and they know that. That's why they are doing everything to avoid going into government.

What have we come to

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