General Election TV debates

um7y1h83ge06nx · 05-02-2020 01:25AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

these kids are all born post GFA and havent a breeze what went on

You could even leave all the pre GFA stuff out of it - SFs economics policies are absolutely bonkers for anyone that has any bit of drive to work.

suicide_circus · 05-02-2020 01:29AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That's the bull**** the electorate are repudiating.

Mary Lou is now the conniving IRA mastermind? Jaysus.
I remember the hypocrites here on the moral high ground saying 'SF MUST get rid of Adams...to have any chance...etc etc etc.

whats bull****? that SF have victims associates with them? you named a few yourself.

do you think the SF surge is based on a love of their policies and character or a desperate desire for change finding a home in the third biggest party?

for the record I think SF will do well and will form part of the next government and i wish them well.

Remind me · 05-02-2020 01:30AM

Once Sinn Fein have people like Dessie Ellis sitting in the Dail the past is the present

Atlantic Dawn · 05-02-2020 01:30AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

these kids are all born post GFA and havent a breeze what went on

Yes the Nationalists in the north were treated like utter thrash and had to rise up.

feargale · 05-02-2020 01:34AM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Yes the Nationalists in the north were treated like utter thrash and had to rise up.

The nationalist people of NI never gave majority support to SF while the IRA carried on its violent campaign.

Hamsterchops · 05-02-2020 01:36AM

If there's one thing that has been highlighted over the last two interviews with Mary Lou, it's that if she is prevented from (waffling with her flowery language) then she really is lacking in detail when pressed, she also struggles with IRA legacy issues, obviously because all that horror was orchestrated by her predicessor, but still, she should get her facts right as to who spoke to who about who said what about who shot who.

Must have been on a bad phone line to Gerry.

SafeSurfer · 05-02-2020 01:37AM

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

LOL fuel smugglers kill another fuel smuggler with a ratio of 10:1.

Ahhh that explains it so, let's move on.

It explains Mary Lou’s objection to electric cars.

NIMAN · 05-02-2020 01:38AM

Perhaps her issue is that she is fundamentally a FF'er, not a Shinner.

Remind me · 05-02-2020 01:38AM

Hamsterchops wrote: »

If there's one thing that has been highlighted over the last two interviews with Mary Lou, it's that if she is prevented from (waffling with her flowery language) then she really is lacking in detail when pressed, she also struggles with IRA legacy issues, obviously because all that horror was orchestrated by her predicessor, but still, she should get her facts right as to who spoke to who about who said what about who shot who.

Must have been on a bad phone line to Gerry.

Compared to Eoin O’Broin who is excellent in addressing IRA issues. Accepts, apologises and understands a large % will not support SF because of it.

boardise · 05-02-2020 01:41AM

theballz wrote: »

They haven’t a clue. It’s frightening.

Absolutely .
What scares me even more is the proposal floating around to extend the franchise to 16 yr olds. Don't know all the party positions -but I've gathered that Howlin and Martin support this crackpot idea. I shudder to think of it.

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 01:46AM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So whataboutism ?

Fair enough you think Sinn Fein have nothing to answer for and the debate was a flawless outing.

Sigh...I never said it was a flawless outing. I said I reckoned on the issues, it was probably a draw with MM maybe slightly shading it. I said nobody shone, and all preformed to type.

Stop misquoting please.

SafeSurfer · 05-02-2020 01:49AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Mrs Quinn was contacted because Lynn Boylan said on Sunday morning that 'people are fed up with victims being exploited' and Brendan O'Connor taking umbrage because she said it.

Paul Quinn, brutal and terrible as his murder was, is being used in this election, like Jean McConville is routinely, like Maria Cahill was etc etc. If SF represent a threat to this state then they are a threat to this state in any capacity, national or local. The electorate are having their say and at the moment they are more popular than FG and FF.

It is time to be honest about this and time to stop using victims.

Are Sinn Fein a threat to the state?

Up to 50% of senior members of the Republican movement were recruited as agents by the British security forces. Often after exposing themselves through their paedophilia.
Are there remnants of these British security agents still at the heart of Sinn Fein?
Undoubtedly.
Would they compromise national security if in power? Almost certainly.
The republican movement was riven with British agents and spies.

charlie14 · 05-02-2020 01:50AM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Extremely perceptive observation, Charlie, and one that hasn’t been discussed in detail due to traditional media having to engage in easy headlines for clicks. Which is a shame, as a democracy needs people to pay for strong and independent journalism.

God bless RTÉ.

Unfortunately with easy headline clicks Irish journalism nowadays reminds me of the Buggles song Video Killed The Radio Star.
With The Irish Times/lpsos MRBI poll adding up to 100% I assume that 17% has been allocated proportionally to each party.

If I am correct in that assumption when you throw in the 2.8% margin of error then the real figure for each parties stated preference is close to 20% lower than that poll makes them appear.

boardise · 05-02-2020 01:53AM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So whataboutism ?

Fair enough you think Sinn Fein have nothing to answer for and the debate was a flawless outing. Many in this thread disagree. She gave an interview last night it seems and it was at odds with what she said tonight.

Nothing new there -she said one day there was no immediate need for a Border Poll but, on mature reflection following incoming signals from certain agents in N Ir ,said the following day that a Border Poll was in fact just what the doctor ordered.

Finty Lemon · 05-02-2020 01:54AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That's the bull**** the electorate are repudiating.

Mary Lou is now the conniving IRA mastermind? Jaysus.
I remember the hypocrites here on the moral high ground saying 'SF MUST get rid of Adams...to have any chance...etc etc etc.

Not a mastermind, we all saw that tonight.
More of a puppet

JohnnyFlash · 05-02-2020 01:56AM

FF and SF government after the election. It will take a very long time to form it, and that's very bad for our place in the EU machinations over the trade deal with the UK. But that's what the electorate are going to vote for. Time for FG to spend a few years on the opposition benches.

Who should replace Simon Coveney and Helen McAntee? Hear O'Cuiv and Eoin O'Broin being mentioned.

Calhoun · 05-02-2020 01:57AM

Havent watched it yet i was at a mini debate so to speak in my local tonight on special needs support. Representatives from SF, PBP, FF and FG, it was a very heated conversation as a certain midlands minister was there and some parents have had kids neglected for up to five years.

Rating wise i would rank them

SF - Knew the content very well, new the challenges that parents and children went through and knew his audience.
FF - One good canidate that had a decent grasp of the problem but didnt delve to deep into the problem but had some very insightful thinking on some solutions.
FF candidate 2 - hadn't a clue was a bit of an embarrasment for the party.
FG - Very rough showing, didn't really understand or take in what was being said only point out all the statistics of what already had been done. The parents there were stressed and at the end of their tether with a system which is adversarial.
PBP - Geniune person with family impacted by special needs but really rough all around. Was like a meandering river with his arguments.

No representation from any other parties showed.

Why i bring it up is that similarly to what we have seen in the TV debates we saw her tonight with FG at least, way too much focus on the top level statistics without understanding the impact from people below. Its like they are taking in what is being said and spitting out canned answers but not really listening to whats been said.

Compare that to SF, who seem to be listening their is your problem. I am no fan of SF but i left tonight thinking i might as well give them a preference when i wasnt going to before. Could even be number one.

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 01:59AM

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Not a mastermind, we all saw that tonight.
More of a puppet

Cheap shot.

Remind me · 05-02-2020 02:00AM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

FF and SF government after the election. It will take a very long time to form it, and that's very bad for our place in the EU machinations over the trade deal with the UK. But that's what the electorate are going to vote for. Time for FG to spend a few years on the opposition benches.

Who should replace Simon Coveney and Helen McAntee? Hear O'Cuiv and Eoin O'Broin being mentioned.

WTF?

Are you fishing here or do you genuinely believe this?

Remind me · 05-02-2020 02:03AM

Calhoun wrote: »

Havent watched it yet i was at a mini debate so to speak in my local tonight on special needs support. Representatives from SF, PBP, FF and FG, it was a very heated conversation as a certain midlands minister was there and some parents have had kids neglected for up to five years.

Rating wise i would rank them
SF - Knew the content very well, new the challenges that parents and children went through and new his audience.

FF - One good canidate that had a decent grasp of the problem but didnt delve to deep into the problem but had some very insightful thinking on some solutions.

FF candidate 2 - hadn't a clue was a bit of an embarrasment for the party.

FG - Very rough showing, didn't really understand or take in what was being said only point out all the statistics of what already had been done. The parents there were stressed and at the end of their tether with a system which is adversarial.

PBP - Geniune person with family impacted by special needs but really rough all around. Was like a meandering river with his arguments.

No representation from any other parties showed.

Why i bring it up is that similarly to what we have seen in the TV debates we saw her tonight with FG at least, way too much focus on the top level statistics without understanding the impact from people below. Its like they are taking in what is being said and spitting out canned answers but not really listening to whats been said.

Compare that to SF, who seem to be listening their is your problem. I am no fan of SF but i left tonight thinking i might as well give them a preference when i wasnt going to before. Could even be number one.

And the simple question from people opposing SF is how will they fund it?

charlie14 · 05-02-2020 02:05AM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

FF and SF government after the election. It will take a very long time to form it, and that's very bad for our place in the EU machinations over the trade deal with the UK. But that's what the electorate are going to vote for. Time for FG to spend a few years on the opposition benches.

Who should replace Simon Coveney and Helen McAntee? Hear O'Cuiv and Eoin O'Broin being mentioned.

I doubt it will make a lot of difference who goes to Brussels.
Our main worry was the Withdrawal Treaty, and we got what we wanted if Britain abides by what the agreed to.
The next phase is trade and that will be down to the EU rules and regulations where we will unlikely have much influence on other than perhaps fishing rights.

Calhoun · 05-02-2020 02:06AM

Remind me wrote: »

And the simple question from people opposing SF is how will they fund it?

As Charlie Flanagan pointed out tonight they have invested 2B into the HSE and the money is there to solve the problems of the people in the room.

So without actually changing anything from a funding perspective they don't have to do anything.

Thats if you believe what FG are saying.

I can tell you this though, if you invest in early intervention of children in special needs now you prevent much more expensive outcomes from older patients.

Remind me · 05-02-2020 02:06AM

charlie14 wrote: »

I doubt it will make a lot of difference who goes to Brussels.
Our main worry was the Withdrawal Treaty, and we got what we wanted if Britain abides by what the agreed to.
The next phase is trade and that will be down to the EU rules and regulations where we will unlikely have much influence on other than perhaps fishing rights.

And us now having to repay favours to other EU countries that showed solidarity with us in relation to Brexit.

We won’t get what we want on CAP because of it.

JohnnyFlash · 05-02-2020 02:08AM

Remind me wrote: »

WTF?

Are you fishing here or do you genuinely believe this?

No. I'm a FG supporter, and FG aren't going to be in government after the election on Saturday. That's grand. Every party needs a refresh, and time on the opposition benches. Left the place in a good state - full employment, abortion legislation finally passed, council housing being built again after almost 30 years of non-investment.

People want change. And the change they are going to get is a FF/SF government.

Calhoun · 05-02-2020 02:08AM

Remind me wrote: »

And us now having to repay favours to other EU countries that showed solidarity with us in relation to Brexit.

We won’t get what we want on CAP because of it.

What favors? the EU had to back us because if we were basically fed to the wolves then it would have given the rising right in europe a literal stick to beat the EU with.

We didn't get looked after because the cute hoor charm of Coveney, it was because the EU was fighting for its survival.

shenanagans · 05-02-2020 02:10AM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

No. I'm a FG supporter, and FG aren't going to be in government after the election on Saturday. That's grand. Every party needs a refresh, and time on the opposition benches. Left the place in a good state - full employment, abortion legislation finally passed, council housing being built again after almost 30 years of non-investment.

People want change. And the change they are going to get is a FF/SF government.

No way. Can't see FF going in with SF.

Remind me · 05-02-2020 02:10AM

Calhoun wrote: »

As Charlie Flanagan pointed out tonight they have invested 2B into the HSE and the money is there to solve the problems of the people in the room.

So without actually changing anything from a funding perspective they don't have to do anything.

Thats if you believe what FG are saying.

I can tell you this though, if you invest in early intervention of children in special needs now you prevent much more expensive outcomes from older patients.

Absolutely 100% on your last paragraph.

On investment in health, FG have thrown money into a black hole, they have made massive massive mistakes. I also wouldn’t have much time for Charlie Flanagan.

IMO voting SF is a mistake. They offer the world with nothing to back it up. It’s being successful in the polls, maybe the only way people will realise how cuckoo their promises are is to give them power and F it up.

Calhoun · 05-02-2020 02:14AM

Remind me wrote: »

Absolutely 100% on your last paragraph.

On investment in health, FG have thrown money into a black hole, they have made massive massive mistakes. I also wouldn’t have much time for Charlie Flanagan.

IMO voting SF is a mistake. They offer the world with nothing to back it up. It’s being successful in the polls, maybe the only way people will realise how cuckoo their promises are is to give them power and F it up.

As i said from tonights experience the SF candidate understood exactly what the group was going through, could articulate the current problem with the system and people left thinking he had heard them.

Charlie was just spit firing canned answers and even though he had been approached by the group in the past for support nothing had happened in 5 years.

It got fairly dicey at some points the anger in the room, FG if it wants to stay in power has to get across that it hears the anger from the public. It has to say it has listened and understood and i don't think that message is getting out.

shenanagans · 05-02-2020 02:14AM

Remind me wrote: »

Absolutely 100% on your last paragraph.

On investment in health, FG have thrown money into a black hole, they have made massive massive mistakes. I also wouldn’t have much time for Charlie Flanagan.

IMO voting SF is a mistake. They offer the world with nothing to back it up. It’s being successful in the polls, maybe the only way people will realise how cuckoo their promises are is to give them power and F it up.

Fortunately they have only 42 candidates. Might get 25 seats. Won't put a govt together with that.

FF and FG have both stated REPEATEDLY they won't form a govt with SF. End of story.

People want change....then hopefully there'll be enough Labour/Greens to help put a govt together with FF or FG.

Remind me · 05-02-2020 02:15AM

Calhoun wrote: »

What favors? the EU had to back us because if we were basically fed to the wolves then it would have given the rising right in europe a literal stick to beat the EU with.

We didn't get looked after because the cute hoor charm of Coveney, it was because the EU was fighting for its survival.

The majority of EU capitals ‘stood in solidarity’ with Ireland in relation to the border and constantly spoke out on this. We had visits to the border by various EU ministers and Barnier etc...

Unanimity is needed in the EU, All it would have taken was Poland, Hungary, Romania etc... to say ‘get over yourselves’ in terms of the backstop or a border and we’d have been up sh*t creek.

Not many people outside Ireland could really care about the border but EU leaders continually showed solidarity with us.

General Election TV debates

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