General Election TV debates

JohnnyFlash

FF and SF government after the election. It will take a very long time to form it, and that's very bad for our place in the EU machinations over the trade deal with the UK. But that's what the electorate are going to vote for. Time for FG to spend a few years on the opposition benches.

Who should replace Simon Coveney and Helen McAntee? Hear O'Cuiv and Eoin O'Broin being mentioned.

Calhoun

Havent watched it yet i was at a mini debate so to speak in my local tonight on special needs support. Representatives from SF, PBP, FF and FG, it was a very heated conversation as a certain midlands minister was there and some parents have had kids neglected for up to five years.

Rating wise i would rank them

1. SF - Knew the content very well, new the challenges that parents and children went through and knew his audience.
2. FF - One good canidate that had a decent grasp of the problem but didnt delve to deep into the problem but had some very insightful thinking on some solutions.
3. FF candidate 2 - hadn't a clue was a bit of an embarrasment for the party.
4. FG - Very rough showing, didn't really understand or take in what was being said only point out all the statistics of what already had been done. The parents there were stressed and at the end of their tether with a system which is adversarial.
5. PBP - Geniune person with family impacted by special needs but really rough all around. Was like a meandering river with his arguments.

No representation from any other parties showed.

Why i bring it up is that similarly to what we have seen in the TV debates we saw her tonight with FG at least, way too much focus on the top level statistics without understanding the impact from people below. Its like they are taking in what is being said and spitting out canned answers but not really listening to whats been said.

Compare that to SF, who seem to be listening their is your problem. I am no fan of SF but i left tonight thinking i might as well give them a preference when i wasnt going to before. Could even be number one.

FrancieBrady

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Not a mastermind, we all saw that tonight.
More of a puppet

Cheap shot.

Remind me

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

FF and SF government after the election. It will take a very long time to form it, and that's very bad for our place in the EU machinations over the trade deal with the UK. But that's what the electorate are going to vote for. Time for FG to spend a few years on the opposition benches.

Who should replace Simon Coveney and Helen McAntee? Hear O'Cuiv and Eoin O'Broin being mentioned.

WTF?

Are you fishing here or do you genuinely believe this?

Remind me

Calhoun wrote: »

Havent watched it yet i was at a mini debate so to speak in my local tonight on special needs support. Representatives from SF, PBP, FF and FG, it was a very heated conversation as a certain midlands minister was there and some parents have had kids neglected for up to five years.

Rating wise i would rank them

1. SF - Knew the content very well, new the challenges that parents and children went through and new his audience.
2. FF - One good canidate that had a decent grasp of the problem but didnt delve to deep into the problem but had some very insightful thinking on some solutions.
3. FF candidate 2 - hadn't a clue was a bit of an embarrasment for the party.
4. FG - Very rough showing, didn't really understand or take in what was being said only point out all the statistics of what already had been done. The parents there were stressed and at the end of their tether with a system which is adversarial.
5. PBP - Geniune person with family impacted by special needs but really rough all around. Was like a meandering river with his arguments.

No representation from any other parties showed.

Why i bring it up is that similarly to what we have seen in the TV debates we saw her tonight with FG at least, way too much focus on the top level statistics without understanding the impact from people below. Its like they are taking in what is being said and spitting out canned answers but not really listening to whats been said.

Compare that to SF, who seem to be listening their is your problem. I am no fan of SF but i left tonight thinking i might as well give them a preference when i wasnt going to before. Could even be number one.

And the simple question from people opposing SF is how will they fund it?

charlie14

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

FF and SF government after the election. It will take a very long time to form it, and that's very bad for our place in the EU machinations over the trade deal with the UK. But that's what the electorate are going to vote for. Time for FG to spend a few years on the opposition benches.

Who should replace Simon Coveney and Helen McAntee? Hear O'Cuiv and Eoin O'Broin being mentioned.

I doubt it will make a lot of difference who goes to Brussels.
Our main worry was the Withdrawal Treaty, and we got what we wanted if Britain abides by what the agreed to.
The next phase is trade and that will be down to the EU rules and regulations where we will unlikely have much influence on other than perhaps fishing rights.

Calhoun

Remind me wrote: »

And the simple question from people opposing SF is how will they fund it?

As Charlie Flanagan pointed out tonight they have invested 2B into the HSE and the money is there to solve the problems of the people in the room.

So without actually changing anything from a funding perspective they don't have to do anything.

Thats if you believe what FG are saying.

I can tell you this though, if you invest in early intervention of children in special needs now you prevent much more expensive outcomes from older patients.

Remind me

charlie14 wrote: »

I doubt it will make a lot of difference who goes to Brussels.
Our main worry was the Withdrawal Treaty, and we got what we wanted if Britain abides by what the agreed to.
The next phase is trade and that will be down to the EU rules and regulations where we will unlikely have much influence on other than perhaps fishing rights.

And us now having to repay favours to other EU countries that showed solidarity with us in relation to Brexit.

We won’t get what we want on CAP because of it.

JohnnyFlash

Remind me wrote: »

WTF?

Are you fishing here or do you genuinely believe this?

No. I'm a FG supporter, and FG aren't going to be in government after the election on Saturday. That's grand. Every party needs a refresh, and time on the opposition benches. Left the place in a good state - full employment, abortion legislation finally passed, council housing being built again after almost 30 years of non-investment.

People want change. And the change they are going to get is a FF/SF government.

Calhoun

Remind me wrote: »

And us now having to repay favours to other EU countries that showed solidarity with us in relation to Brexit.

We won’t get what we want on CAP because of it.

What favors? the EU had to back us because if we were basically fed to the wolves then it would have given the rising right in europe a literal stick to beat the EU with.

We didn't get looked after because the cute hoor charm of Coveney, it was because the EU was fighting for its survival.

shenanagans

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

No. I'm a FG supporter, and FG aren't going to be in government after the election on Saturday. That's grand. Every party needs a refresh, and time on the opposition benches. Left the place in a good state - full employment, abortion legislation finally passed, council housing being built again after almost 30 years of non-investment.

People want change. And the change they are going to get is a FF/SF government.

No way. Can't see FF going in with SF.

Remind me

Calhoun wrote: »

As Charlie Flanagan pointed out tonight they have invested 2B into the HSE and the money is there to solve the problems of the people in the room.

So without actually changing anything from a funding perspective they don't have to do anything.

Thats if you believe what FG are saying.

I can tell you this though, if you invest in early intervention of children in special needs now you prevent much more expensive outcomes from older patients.

Absolutely 100% on your last paragraph.

On investment in health, FG have thrown money into a black hole, they have made massive massive mistakes. I also wouldn’t have much time for Charlie Flanagan.

IMO voting SF is a mistake. They offer the world with nothing to back it up. It’s being successful in the polls, maybe the only way people will realise how cuckoo their promises are is to give them power and F it up.

Calhoun

Remind me wrote: »

Absolutely 100% on your last paragraph.

On investment in health, FG have thrown money into a black hole, they have made massive massive mistakes. I also wouldn’t have much time for Charlie Flanagan.

IMO voting SF is a mistake. They offer the world with nothing to back it up. It’s being successful in the polls, maybe the only way people will realise how cuckoo their promises are is to give them power and F it up.

As i said from tonights experience the SF candidate understood exactly what the group was going through, could articulate the current problem with the system and people left thinking he had heard them.

Charlie was just spit firing canned answers and even though he had been approached by the group in the past for support nothing had happened in 5 years.

It got fairly dicey at some points the anger in the room, FG if it wants to stay in power has to get across that it hears the anger from the public. It has to say it has listened and understood and i don't think that message is getting out.

shenanagans

Remind me wrote: »

Absolutely 100% on your last paragraph.

On investment in health, FG have thrown money into a black hole, they have made massive massive mistakes. I also wouldn’t have much time for Charlie Flanagan.

IMO voting SF is a mistake. They offer the world with nothing to back it up. It’s being successful in the polls, maybe the only way people will realise how cuckoo their promises are is to give them power and F it up.

Fortunately they have only 42 candidates. Might get 25 seats. Won't put a govt together with that.

FF and FG have both stated REPEATEDLY they won't form a govt with SF. End of story.

People want change....then hopefully there'll be enough Labour/Greens to help put a govt together with FF or FG.

Remind me

Calhoun wrote: »

What favors? the EU had to back us because if we were basically fed to the wolves then it would have given the rising right in europe a literal stick to beat the EU with.

We didn't get looked after because the cute hoor charm of Coveney, it was because the EU was fighting for its survival.

The majority of EU capitals ‘stood in solidarity’ with Ireland in relation to the border and constantly spoke out on this. We had visits to the border by various EU ministers and Barnier etc...

Unanimity is needed in the EU, All it would have taken was Poland, Hungary, Romania etc... to say ‘get over yourselves’ in terms of the backstop or a border and we’d have been up sh*t creek.

Not many people outside Ireland could really care about the border but EU leaders continually showed solidarity with us.

Calhoun

Remind me wrote: »

The majority of EU capitals ‘stood in solidarity’ with Ireland in relation to the border and constantly spoke out on this. We had visits to the border by various EU ministers and Barnier etc...

Unanimity is needed in the EU, All it would have taken was Poland, Hungary, Romania etc... to say ‘get over yourselves’ in terms of the backstop or a border and we’d have been up sh*t creek.

Not many people outside Ireland could really care about the border but EU leaders continually showed solidarity with us.

As i said above they had to for the sake of the union.

JohnnyFlash

shenanagans wrote: »

No way. Can't see FF going in with SF.

If the numbers stack up for a coalition then it will happen. If SF manage over 24 seats then it will be all cards on the table. Brexit negotiations will become very important very soon. Time for the hurlers on the ditch to go down and play a bit of county hurling.

shenanagans

shenanagans wrote: »

Fortunately they have only 42 candidates. Might get 25 seats. Won't put a govt together with that.

FF and FG have both stated REPEATEDLY they won't form a govt with SF. End of story.

People want change....then hopefully there'll be enough Labour/Greens to help put a govt together with FF or FG.

That would not be change . Sure the Greens were with FF when they destroyed the country and Labour were the nodding dog when FG forced huge austerity on the taxpayer

Zetor19

Calhoun, did anyone have a go at tanagan about the Black and Tans ? Sorry if that’s a bit rude as obviously the special needs is a real and sensitive and very important issue, just wondering what the locals think of the fool.

shenanagans

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That would not be change . Sure the Greens were with FF when they destroyed the country and Labour were the nodding dog when FG forced huge austerity on the taxpayer

Well people need to be realistic. SF won't put a govt together if they get 25 seats. Even if they got 30 seats.

Majority requires 81 I think.

If you ruling out FF/FG/Greens/Labour......what's left .....not 81 seats!!

Be realistic...please.

shenanagans

shenanagans wrote: »

Well people need to be realistic. SF won't put a govt together if they get 25 seats. Even if they got 30 seats.

Majority requires 81 I think.

If you ruling out FF/FG/Greens/Labour......what's left .....not 81 seats!!

Be realistic...please.

Yeah i get that and your right. i just dont get how you have stated that if we want real change we'll get more of the same when the fact is we wont get change at all.

Suckit

I missed the last few minutes of the debate (I missed from 11:07PM onwards) but I can't wait to see what Leo said to 'win' this debate, because he wasn't close to winning before I left, and that was including after Mary Lou was asked about Paul Quinn.

Most people that may have decided to vote SF would be stupid not to have known their past, however, there may be a few younger voters that looked up that story and have changed since their minds.
It doesn't change the fact that it's putting FFFG back on the table for them, and realistically they know that neither are the solution, especially after 100 years of getting things done their way led us to where we are now.

The only other option for them is to vote Green (who helped FF destroy the country and would like to tax everything including air), Labour (Ditto but with FG) or Independent, which FF, FG and Labour would have you believe is a "wasted vote" because it might stop one of theirs getting in. It also assumes the Independents wouldn't join forces on certain issues to go against the them on those.
As it stands, my constituency has a decent Independent, Whom will get my number 1. But I may change that to number 2 in the following days. I wouldn't recommend anyone to listen to the Bullsh*t 'wasted vote' rhetoric anyway.

shenanagans

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah i get that and your right. i just dont get how you have stated that if we want real change we'll get more of the same when the fact is we wont get change at all.

Well for me a coalition like FF/Greens/Labour would mean a blend of their policies. Howlin has good policies....Greens would demand more on climate change, retrofitting etc, and like it or not FF/FG have the number of seat necessary to form a stable govt.

Remind me

Calhoun wrote: »

As i said above they had to for the sake of the union.

Completely disagree. EU has historically been very good to us but now we give a lot more money than what we get in return.

With UK gone France and Germany are starting to flex their muscle and we no longer have the buffer of the UK.

One of the main reasons the EU institutions showed such an interest in Ireland was fear of dissident activity.

Support in terms of the border, backstop etc... was not guaranteed but capitals did support us.

There is no danger to the union if there is a border on the island of Ireland.

Calhoun

Zetor19 wrote: »

Calhoun, did anyone have a go at tanagan about the Black and Tans ? Sorry if that’s a bit rude as obviously the special needs is a real and sensitive and very important issue, just wondering what the locals think of the fool.

No i get why you would ask that, and being perfectly honest it was nearly like he was going to walk himself into something like that as he was spitting out high level figures.

Had there been a value spent on the RIC commemorations that would have been asked. They picked him apart on stuff like TD's getting a pay increase and the FAI getting an investment of 20 Million.

shenanagans

shenanagans wrote: »

Well for me a coalition like FF/Greens/Labour would mean a blend of their policies. Howlin has good policies....Greens would demand more on climate change, retrofitting etc, and like it or not FF/FG have the number of seat necessary to form a stable govt.

Christ it wont for god sake. Have you learned anything from history? It will be FG crippling the country and the others nodding the head.

Calhoun

Remind me wrote: »

Completely disagree. EU has historically been very good to us but now we give a lot more money than what we get in return.

With UK gone France and Germany are starting to flex their muscle and we no longer have the buffer of the UK.

One of the main reasons the EU institutions showed such an interest in Ireland was fear of dissident activity.

Support in terms of the border, backstop etc... was not guaranteed but capitals did support us.

Well thats where we read it differently and thats fine i don't have to agree with you and you don't have to agree with me.

We have to be good Union partners but at the same time we don't owe them anything other than that.

shenanagans

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Christ it wont for god sake. Have you learned anything from history? It will be FG crippling the country and the others nodding the head.

What do you think the next govt will look like so?

let's give SF 30 .....where the other 51 coming from?

Remind me

Calhoun wrote: »

Well thats where we read it differently and thats fine i don't have to agree with you and you don't have to agree with me.

We have to be good Union partners but at the same time we don't owe them anything other than that.

In terms of give and take in the negotiations surely we will though? We get a lot of money on CAP and programmes like Erasmus plus and PEACE. This level of funding won’t continue so something has to give

shenanagans

shenanagans wrote: »

What do you think the next govt will look like so?

let's give SF 30 .....where the other 51 coming from?

Why do you keep harping on about Sinn Fein?? Im not disagreeing with you that Sinn Fein wont have half enough seats and have no chance of governance, and frankly im not sure their policies are realistic, but i take exception to your comment that change will occur under an FG/Greens/Labour goverment. There is nothing to be optimistic about quite frankly. We are goosed in every scenario.