Anti-vaxxers

banie01 · 24-01-2020 2:21pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

You "shoot and take cover" because you have no interest in debate. You care only about spreading your bilious, hateful and dangerous agenda.

You, earlier in the thread:

I see our island dweller is back again with anecdotal nonsense that she somehow feels is more evidentially sound than actual scientific data.

I have posted before about the frankly dangerous be that is spouted.
The mod agreed, yet the post was deleted because I questioned her character.

I am at a loss to understand why on a thread primarily concerned with the scientific facts and efficacy of vaccines that a particular poster is constantly afforded the opportunity to waltz in, post specious and unsupported bull**** and than waltz away without answering any challenge?

Age does not afford one continued respect, if one chooses to continue being a dick.

I fully expect a card for this, but there needs to be some level of balanced moderator action.
Allowing certain posters to continue posting their unsupported hunches on anti-vax unchallenged!

Is akin to supporting their position that vaccines are dangerous on a broad level.

jh79 · 24-01-2020 2:26pm

DublinWriter wrote: »

There's this crazy thing called Google...

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.3109/1547691X.2010.545086?scroll=top&needAccess=true

Review of the paper here;

"In other words, her review is 95% pseudoscientific garbage, maybe 5% reasonable science. On second thought, I’m clearly being generous."

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/anti-vaccine-propaganda-from-sharyl-attkisson-of-cbs-news-2/

ancapailldorcha · 24-01-2020 2:28pm

jh79 wrote: »

Review of the paper here;

"In other words, her review is 95% pseudoscientific garbage, maybe 5% reasonable science. On second thought, I’m clearly being generous."

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/anti-vaccine-propaganda-from-sharyl-attkisson-of-cbs-news-2/

Odd how we're all supposed to trust former big Pharma corporate types once they support the anti-vaxxer agenda.

ancapailldorcha · 24-01-2020 2:31pm

jh79 wrote: »

Review of the paper here;

"In other words, her review is 95% pseudoscientific garbage, maybe 5% reasonable science. On second thought, I’m clearly being generous."

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/anti-vaccine-propaganda-from-sharyl-attkisson-of-cbs-news-2/

The thing is that it's just a review. It's not a meta-analysis where these studies were quantified and analysed to form a sort of meta-cohort. Some woman just decided to jump aboard the anti-vaxxer bandwagon.

ancapailldorcha · 24-01-2020 2:47pm

Harry Palmr · 24-01-2020 3:24pm

Ah yes the old eight months and not died or been stricken from a communicable disease yet.

Let's see how that pans out over the next 18 years. I hope she updates us.

mountai · 24-01-2020 3:56pm

Orion wrote: »

Everyone of those "reactions" has been debunked many many times. CFS is a common ailment especially in girls and occurs in equal measure in vaccinated and unvaccinated chidren.

The PIL was not withheld - that's just a patent lie. It's on the HSE website for starters - and you can ask for it when getting the vaccine too.

You're right about not being able to make this s**t up alright - except you do.

Schools were instructed "Do not include any information other than , that issued by HSE ".
All the reactions I mentioned are listed in the PIL as " Possible side effects" .
I hope none of your children suffer from any illness , because if they do , I will not believe you .

CramCycle · 24-01-2020 4:12pm

mountai wrote: »

Schools were instructed "Do not include any information other than , that issued by HSE ".
All the reactions I mentioned are listed in the PIL as " Possible side effects" .
I hope none of your children suffer from any illness , because if they do , I will not believe you .

Indeed it does, well, as reported side effects. The CDC have a wonderful section on their site detailing these reports in the US, rates of these reactions and comparison to the general.population, well worth a read

https://www.cdc.gov/hpv/parents/vaccinesafety.html

DublinWriter · 24-01-2020 6:43pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

FYI, Sharyl Attkisson is an anti-vaxxer so I'll be taking anything she says with a mountain of salt.

Maybe you're getting a tad confused.

The paper I linked to was written by Dr. Helen V. Ratajczak, formerly the senior scientist at Boehringer Ingelheim Pharmaceuticals, Inc.

Sharyl Attkisson is a broadcaster, not a scientist and had no hand, act or part in the writing of Dr.Ratajczak's paper.

ancapailldorcha · 24-01-2020 6:45pm

DublinWriter wrote: »

Maybe you're getting a tad confused.

The paper I linked to was written by Dr. Helen V. Ratajczak, formerly the senior scientist at Boehringer Ingelheim Pharmaceuticals, Inc.

Sharyl Attkisson is a broadcaster, not a scientist and had no hand, act or part in the writing of Dr.Ratajczak's paper.

You linked a CBS piece and I called out the author for being an anti-vaxxer.

paul71 · 24-01-2020 7:15pm

mountai wrote: »

Schools were instructed "Do not include any information other than , that issued by HSE ".
All the reactions I mentioned are listed in the PIL as " Possible side effects" .
I hope none of your children suffer from any illness , because if they do , I will not believe you .

On the other hand I am intimately acquainted with the side effect of non vaccination, you may have heard of it. It's called Death.

PopePalpatine · 24-01-2020 8:13pm

The great thing about living on a crappy rock is that not only is it physically isolated, no-one wants to visit it anyway and (inadvertently or otherwise) bring diseases with them.

DublinWriter · 26-01-2020 8:01pm

paul71 wrote: »

On the other hand I am intimately acquainted with the side effect of non vaccination, you may have heard of it. It's called Death.

Really? Amazing that Homo Sapiens have survived the best part of 300,000 years without it. Are you saying we should be extinct by now?

Seth Brundle · 26-01-2020 8:11pm

DublinWriter wrote: »

Really? Amazing that Homo Sapiens have survived the best part of 300,000 years without it. Are you saying we should be extinct by now?

Peoples life spans have increased due to modern medicines which include vaccines. Are you disagreeing with this fact?

Timberrrrrrrr · 26-01-2020 8:41pm

DublinWriter wrote: »

Really? Amazing that Homo Sapiens have survived the best part of 300,000 years without it. Are you saying we should be extinct by now?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?sxsrf=ACYBGNQ5ypbFSupiIF3qbCa8_NQIosW1Xg%3A1580067504553&ei=sOotXq2vIYy6gAa_95eoCg&q=life+expectancy+1600&oq=life+expectancy+1600&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.1.0.0l3j0i22i30l5.1161.3388..4591...0.1..0.133.567.0j5......0....1.........0i71j0i67j33i160.hOTq8QDG2KA

17th-century English life expectancy was only about 35 years, largely because infant and child mortality remained high. Life expectancy was under 25 years in the early Colony of Virginia, and in seventeenth-century New England, about 40percent died before reaching adulthood.

mountai · 26-01-2020 8:58pm

paul71 wrote: »

On the other hand I am intimately acquainted with the side effect of non vaccination, you may have heard of it. It's called Death.

"Intimately acquainted" ??? . Make a comeback , did you !!.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 26-01-2020 9:03pm

mountai wrote: »

"Intimately acquainted" ??? . Make a comeback , did you !!.

You're hilarious. Use that gag at funerals for our loved ones who died from what are now preventable diseases, thanks to vaccines, do you? Anybody who lost somebody close is intimately acquainted with the result of infections.

Dohnjoe · 26-01-2020 9:21pm

DublinWriter wrote: »

Really? Amazing that Homo Sapiens have survived the best part of 300,000 years without it. Are you saying we should be extinct by now?

Uhh, we died and were disfigured by our hundreds of millions. Have a read of what smallpox does to a person and how many have died from it (clue: hundreds of millions) We managed to invent something that has almost completely eradicated it

Jesus christ, some of the comments in this thread

Capt'n Midnight · 26-01-2020 10:28pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Uhh, we died and were disfigured by our hundreds of millions. Have a read of what smallpox does to a person and how many have died from it (clue: hundreds of millions) We managed to invent something that has almost completely eradicated it

Jesus christ, some of the comments in this thread

No.

300 million people died from smallpox in the 20th century.

ZERO deaths since 1978 because we completely eradicated it. (apart from the US and Russian disease lab samples)

Even if you believe that vaccines are unsafe they are far safer than the alternative.

Even if vaccines were unsafe for diseases we can completely eradicate you have to balance the risks today with the deaths every year, forever if you don't stop the disease now.

Polio, Guinea worm , yaws, rubella,river blindness, mumps and measles should be consigned to history ASAP.

Malaria too.

Ipso · 26-01-2020 10:43pm

DublinWriter wrote: »

Really? Amazing that Homo Sapiens have survived the best part of 300,000 years without it. Are you saying we should be extinct by now?

Some polio victims may disagree with you.

ancapailldorcha · 26-01-2020 10:52pm

DublinWriter wrote: »

Really? Amazing that Homo Sapiens have survived the best part of 300,000 years without it. Are you saying we should be extinct by now?

We should go back to the prehistoric way of living? Is this the point you're trying to make?

alchemist33 · 26-01-2020 10:58pm

Plenty of these out there

ancapailldorcha · 26-01-2020 11:05pm

There are a few good ones alright:

paul71 · 27-01-2020 9:16pm

DublinWriter wrote: »

Really? Amazing that Homo Sapiens have survived the best part of 300,000 years without it. Are you saying we should be extinct by now?

Amazing that billions died before it, you are talking about a population where women had to have 12 to 15 children in order to maintain zero population growth for a few hundred thousand years.

paul71 · 27-01-2020 9:17pm

mountai wrote: »

"Intimately acquainted" ??? . Make a comeback , did you !!.

Read the thread, my 9 year old cousin was killed by anti vaxers like you. Much as would like him to make a comeback, there is none from that "side effect" of the poison you spread.

paul71 · 27-01-2020 9:31pm

Maci Whining Pianist wrote: »

You're hilarious. Use that gag at funerals for our loved ones who died from what are now preventable diseases, thanks to vaccines, do you? Anybody who lost somebody close is intimately acquainted with the result of infections.

Yeah open invitation to him to come visit my cousins grave and explain his views to his mother, brother, sister and nephews and nieces he never got to meet.

mountai · 29-01-2020 10:36am

Firstly , Im not an antivaxer , secondly , was it an illness that killed your cousin or did some person get charged with the death??.

Seth Brundle · 29-01-2020 10:39am

mountai wrote: »

Firstly , Im not an antivaxer

when I read that I'm waiting for the "but..."

Igotadose · 29-01-2020 11:30am

mountai wrote: »

Firstly , Im not an antivaxer , secondly , was it an illness that killed your cousin or did some person get charged with the death??.

Look back in this thread for the answer.

Igotadose · 29-01-2020 11:32am

Interesting reading on autism. More and more evidence (real, honest to ghods evidence) of a genetic component. Not due to vaccines, of course.

https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/genes-and-autism-more-evidence-that-it-has-nothing-to-do-with-vaccines/

Couple of quotes:

"The researchers performed the largest exome sequencing study of autism spectrum disorder (ASD) to date (n = 35,584 total samples, 11,986 with ASD)."

"102 genes are implicated in the risk for autism spectrum disorder."

Ping Chow Chi · 29-01-2020 11:43am

Japan have one of the highest rates of autism, yet they have not had the MMR jabs for years I believe.

paul71 · 29-01-2020 11:43am

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mountai wrote: »

Firstly , Im not an antivaxer , secondly , was it an illness that killed your cousin or did some person get charged with the death??.

Absolute bull, you are an anti vaxer and your posting shows it. He died of measels, an easily preventable disease which would now be extinct like smallpox but is not because of the disgusting tactics of anti vaxers like you. As I have already said here I would like to see anti vaxers face criminal prosecution.

paul71 · 29-01-2020 11:48am

mountai wrote: »

Schools were instructed "Do not include any information other than , that issued by HSE ".
All the reactions I mentioned are listed in the PIL as " Possible side effects" .
I hope none of your children suffer from any illness , because if they do , I will not believe you .

Anti Vax drivel and garbage, emotional appeals based on no scientific fact. Fools may read this choose not to vacinate kids and the result is death.

CramCycle · 29-01-2020 2:28pm

paul71 wrote: »

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Absolute bull, you are an anti vaxer and your posting shows it. He died of measels, an easily preventable disease which would now be extinct like smallpox but is not because of the disgusting tactics of anti vaxers like you. As I have already said here I would like to see anti vaxers face criminal prosecution.

There was talk of charging Wakefield with Manslaughter in the UK. Corporate greed has had people charged with worse. In Ireland I think it would have been an interesting case in regards the SHWW act and have him charged with manslaughter. I think he could face 2 years and a 3million euro fine here if it were possible, not sure what the punishment is in the UK.

ancapailldorcha · 29-01-2020 2:30pm

CramCycle wrote: »

There was talk of charging Wakefield with Manslaughter in the UK. Corporate greed has had people charged with worse. In Ireland I think it would have been an interesting case in regards the SHWW act and have him charged with manslaughter. I think he could face 2 years and a 3million euro fine here if it were possible, not sure what the punishment is in the UK.

He lives in the US in a multimillion dollar mansion in the US and given that the Brits can't extradite Harry Dunn's killer then this sadly won't be happening soon.

CramCycle · 29-01-2020 2:34pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

He lives in the US in a multimillion dollar mansion and given that the Brits can't extradite Harry Dunn's killer then this sadly won't be happening soon.

It won't ever happen, it was more interesting. I don't think they ever put out charges (maybe they did), more an interesting point. He done this as a senior manager in business, his actions disregarded the safety of both employees/patients and consumers. I am wondering could it be done, I think it would fall under the remit of the SHWW Act, and would be an interesting test case, but like i said, not sure if it was realistically considered or if the UK has similar legislation.

DublinWriter · 29-01-2020 2:53pm

Ping Chow Chi wrote: »

Japan have one of the highest rates of autism, yet they have not had the MMR jabs for years I believe.

Any source for the claim on the high rates?

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijpedi/2018/5374725/

Wow, didn't realise Japan had banned the MMR...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-17509/Why-Japan-banned-MMR-vaccine.html

paul71 · 29-01-2020 2:55pm

DublinWriter wrote: »

Any source for the claim on the high rates?

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijpedi/2018/5374725/

Wow, didn't realise Japan had banned the MMR...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-17509/Why-Japan-banned-MMR-vaccine.html

Are you back to start denying 350 million deaths from Smallpox after your last drivel post?

ancapailldorcha · 29-01-2020 2:59pm

DublinWriter wrote: »

Any source for the claim on the high rates?

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijpedi/2018/5374725/

Wow, didn't realise Japan had banned the MMR...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-17509/Why-Japan-banned-MMR-vaccine.html

The British Department of Health said Japan had used a type of MMR which included a strain of mumps vaccine that had particular problems and was discontinued in the UK because of safety concerns.

And they've had their biggest Measles outbreak in years recently:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/world/asia/japan-measles-outbreak.html

paul71 · 29-01-2020 3:01pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

And they've had their biggest Measles outbreak in years recently:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/world/asia/japan-measles-outbreak.html

Yeap, 140,000 worldwide deaths from measles last year. A disease that should be extinct by now.

TheRepentent · 29-01-2020 3:21pm

mountai wrote: »

Firstly , Im not an antivaxer

Yeah right :rolleyes:

Igotadose · 29-01-2020 4:49pm

DublinWriter wrote: »

Any source for the claim on the high rates?

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijpedi/2018/5374725/

Wow, didn't realise Japan had banned the MMR...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-17509/Why-Japan-banned-MMR-vaccine.html

And, their autism rate rose. See, the MMR vaccine reduces autism!
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7076-autism-rises-despite-mmr-ban-in-japan/

Plus, it's now again recommended in Japan :
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5557250/
From 2006 onward, measles and rubella vaccine (MR) has been given free-of-charge to children aged 1 y and 5–6 y.1 More than 10 y passed before NIP resumed its recommendation for the MR vaccine. As a result, there are susceptible pockets among female birth cohorts 1989–1993, with seropositive proportions of 78.3%.3

DublinWriter · 29-01-2020 7:52pm

paul71 wrote: »

Are you back to start denying 350 million deaths from Smallpox after your last drivel post?

Do you have any scientific papers to back that figure up?

DublinWriter · 29-01-2020 7:53pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

And they've had their biggest Measles outbreak in years recently:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/world/asia/japan-measles-outbreak.html

Don't have a subscription to the NYT, so I can't read that. Any links to scientific papers that back that claim up?

ancapailldorcha · 29-01-2020 8:03pm

DublinWriter wrote: »

Don't have a subscription to the NYT, so I can't read that. Any links to scientific papers that back that claim up?

I don't have one either and it worked for me.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 29-01-2020 8:05pm

DublinWriter wrote: »

Don't have a subscription to the NYT, so I can't read that. Any links to scientific papers that back that claim up?

It's an open free link. I've just read it.

paul71 · 29-01-2020 8:40pm

DublinWriter wrote: »

Do you have any scientific papers to back that figure up?

Are you trying to deny the figure The WHO says 350 to 500 million deaths in the 20th Century. 300 million in the 19th, I have read that 7% of all humans who ever lived prior to vaccination died of smallpox.

A seven year old can type "Smallpox deaths" into google and the number of deaths pop up instantly from hundreds of sources. Go on try it and inform yourself or should I send my 7 year old over to help you.

mountai · 29-01-2020 9:31pm

should I send my 7 year old over to help you.

Cant think too much of your Kid , offering to send it over to an Antivaxers to "Educate" him . You should be reported to Child Protection Services

paul71 · 29-01-2020 9:33pm

mountai wrote: »

should I send my 7 year old over to help you.

Cant think too much of your Kid , offering to send it over to an Antivaxers to "Educate" him . You should be reported to Child Protection Services

No you should for deliberately spreading disinformation that put kids lives at risk. I vaccinated my kids and refuse to any anti vaxxers kids near them.

paul71 · 29-01-2020 9:43pm

https://ourworldindata.org/smallpox#long-run-smallpox-deaths-in-europe

Oxford university study on Smallpox, I dumped the data for Smallpox cases in Europe only from 1920 to 1976 into excel, total cases 115,869,742. The death rate for contracted cases was 30%.

Anti-vaxxers

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