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Anti-vaxxers

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    #3572
    Amantine
    Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭Amantine


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Quote:
    But Kunkel's father said the family's Christian faith keeps his son from getting vaccinated.
    I am embarrassed for you that you would share that link as proof of anything.I am embarrassed for you that you would share that link as proof of anything.

    So because he objects out of Christian faith, he is to be ridiculed and my link is embarrassing? Don't get me wrong, I dislike the Christian faith as much as the next person but I would never think it's ok to take away someones freedom to go to school because they didn't vaccinate against a disease that almost everyone on this board has had as a child, because of their religious beliefs! You sound like a Nazi!


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    #3573
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Amantine wrote: »
    You sound like a Nazi!

    Godwin is your only friend.


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    #3574
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,742 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    ToBeFrank123 wrote: »
    I feel like we are giving Amantine the oxygen of publicity.

    Nothing she/he says discredits vaccines. Yet the more of a platform they are given the bigger the danger they raise doubts in the gullible.

    It can be very hard to counter lies around vaccines, particular when someone deliberately and mischievously muddies the water.


    As with most of this recent resurgence in conspiracy theorist nonsense the following quote needs to be repeated ad nauseum


    "You cannot reason someone out of something he or she was not reasoned into."


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    #3575
    ToBeFrank123
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    Amantine wrote: »
    Measles causes death in malnourished populations, in the UK even though more than 500,000 children are still not vaccinated, I can't seem to find any deaths for 2019 but I could be wrong, if anyone wants to give me a figure.

    There was 35 for the whole of Europe which includes countries where children are poor like Romania
    source:https://www.bmj.com/content/360/bmj.k795.full

    You accept at least that measles is a serious illness which can cause death. That's a start I guess. Why anyone would want to put their child through the misery of measles based on false information is beyond me.


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    #3576
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Amantine wrote: »
    In Ireland it's the kids who have it who are kept home but in this case it's the other way around: it was a completely healthy person who was not allowed to go to school!! because he might get chicken pox?! Should it not be the parents decision to "protect" him from chicken pox? Do you think that's normal? Does that mean they should do the same here? Healthy children should stay home when another child has chicken pox or the flu because they are not vaccinated? Please note, they don't vaccinate children for chicken pox in Ireland.

    ...because there was a f*cking outbreak and they were protecting him from getting it.

    Why do you refuse to acknowledge this?

    You're a troll. Piss off,


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    #3577
    Amantine
    Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭Amantine


    ToBeFrank123 wrote: »
    You accept at least that measles is a serious illness which can cause death. That's a start I guess. Why anyone would want to put their child through the misery of measles based on false information is beyond me.
    I believe the measles vaccine is low risk and that the disease is too, that's why everyone has a choice to vaccinate (for now). Informed consent is a human right.


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    #3578
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,742 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Amantine wrote: »
    I believe the measles vaccine is low risk and that the disease is too, that's why everyone has a choice to vaccinate (for now). Informed consent is a human right.


    You believe its low risk for the majority(I disagree) but what about it being the job of the majority to get the vaccine to create the herd immunity to shield the minority that are immuno compromised for various reasons who it is very much not low risk for?


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    #3579
    Amantine
    Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭Amantine


    Faugheen wrote: »
    ...because there was a f*cking outbreak and they were protecting him from getting it.

    Why do you refuse to acknowledge this?

    You're a troll. Piss off,

    Me disagreeing does not make me a troll and no need to be rude!

    Tell me please, why does he need to be protected from chicken pox???


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    #3580
    ollkiller
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭ollkiller


    Amantine wrote: »
    Measles causes death in malnourished populations, in the UK even though more than 500,000 children are still not vaccinated, I can't seem to find any deaths for 2019 but I could be wrong, if anyone wants to give me a figure.

    There was 35 for the whole of Europe which includes countries where children are poor like Romania
    source:https://www.bmj.com/content/360/bmj.k795.full

    Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/measles-deaths-by-age-group-from-1980-to-2013-ons-data/measles-notifications-and-deaths-in-england-and-wales-1940-to-2013

    This is a link to measles rates notifications (reports of measles) and the death rate from 1940 to 2016 in England (hardly a malnourished country).

    In 1963 there were 601,255 cases with 127 deaths.
    In 2015 there were 1,193 cases with 0 deaths.

    Measles kills people in countries with low vaccination rates. END OF.


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    #3581
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Amantine wrote: »
    Me disagreeing does not make me a troll and no need to be rude!

    Tell me please, why does he need to be protected from chicken pox???

    You're not disagreeing. You're saying the same sh*te over and over again and not listening to what anyone is saying.

    I've answered your question twice already but I'll do it again.

    Chicken pox is a highly contagious virus, and the school saw it best to protect him from contracting it while there's an outbreak at the school.

    Should the school let him just contract it without a care in the world?

    Engage with what I'm saying instead of saying the same things over and over again. That's why I think you're a troll. If you're not a troll then you're completely brainwashed and you shouldn't be allowed to breed.


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    #3582
    Amantine
    Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭Amantine


    Faugheen wrote: »

    Chicken pox is a highly contagious virus, and the school saw it best to protect him from contracting it while there's an outbreak at the school.

    Should the school let him just contract it without a care in the world?

    Engage with what I'm saying instead of saying the same things over and over again. That's why I think you're a troll. If you're not a troll then you're completely brainwashed and you shouldn't be allowed to breed.


    I shouldn't be allowed to breed? You make for a compelling argument! And you do it with such class!

    Yes, Chickenpox is usually a mild, self-limiting illness and the school has no right to tell him or his parents what to do and that's why he is suing them. If children who are not vaccinated against chicken pox were not allowed to go to school every time there is an "outbreak" in Ireland, there would be an uproar.
    But I'm the one who is brainwashed...


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    #3583
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Amantine wrote: »
    In Ireland it's the kids who have it who are kept home but in this case it's the other way around: it was a completely healthy person who was not allowed to go to school!! because he might get chicken pox?! Should it not be the parents decision to "protect" him from chicken pox? Do you think that's normal? Does that mean they should do the same here? Healthy children should stay home when another child has chicken pox or the flu because they are not vaccinated? Please note, they don't vaccinate children for chicken pox in Ireland.
    Because if he is completely healthy, and he contracts it, other than putting himself at risk, he then increases the period where it is readily transmissible in the school, so the 21 days becomes 30 or 40 days. In Ireland since we don't use it often, it is hard to implement such policies, as well as hard to track who is being honest but the Chickenpox vaccine is readily available here and I know many who have gotten it. Luckily my kids only had minor issues when they got Chickenpox but it can be very serious, albeit in a minority of cases in youth, as I described before. He could also simply had a blood titre for Chicken Pox which would clarify if he has had it before and already has an immunity, which would solve his problem as well.
    Amantine wrote: »
    So because he objects out of Christian faith, he is to be ridiculed and my link is embarrassing? Don't get me wrong, I dislike the Christian faith as much as the next person but I would never think it's ok to take away someones freedom to go to school because they didn't vaccinate against a disease that almost everyone on this board has had as a child, because of their religious beliefs! You sound like a Nazi!
    Most Christian faiths have stated, catagorically that while they disagree with the use of aborted foetuses, they accept and understand that a) they were not abortions for research, it was simply a use of the cells from the foetus b)that the cells currently in use have no relation to the original foetuses and too say they are the same as using foetuses is misleading and finally c) the moral justification for use is justified regardless of their original source.


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    #3584
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,257 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Amantine wrote: »
    So because he objects out of Christian faith, he is to be ridiculed and my link is embarrassing? Don't get me wrong, I dislike the Christian faith as much as the next person but I would never think it's ok to take away someones freedom to go to school because they didn't vaccinate against a disease that almost everyone on this board has had as a child, because of their religious beliefs! You sound like a Nazi!

    LOL. Everybody who disagrees with you is a nazi.


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    #3585
    ollkiller
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭ollkiller


    Amantine wrote: »
    I shouldn't be allowed to breed? You make for a compelling argument! And you do it with such class!

    Yes, Chickenpox is usually a mild, self-limiting illness and the school has no right to tell him or his parents what to do and that's why he is suing them. If children who are not vaccinated against chicken pox were not allowed to go to school every time there is an "outbreak" in Ireland, there would be an uproar.
    But I'm the one who is brainwashed...

    The only uproar would be amongst a tiny percentage of the population like yourself. The rest of the responsible adults would see the blatantly obvious reason to not send an unvaccinated child to the school as a necessary step.

    I have to ask. If there was an outbreak of measles/chickenpox or whatever at your child's school, would you send your unvaccinated child into that school?


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    #3586
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Amantine wrote: »
    So because he objects out of Christian faith, he is to be ridiculed and my link is embarrassing? Don't get me wrong, I dislike the Christian faith as much as the next person but I would never think it's ok to take away someones freedom to go to school because they didn't vaccinate against a disease that almost everyone on this board has had as a child, because of their religious beliefs! You sound like a Nazi!
    Amantine wrote: »
    I shouldn't be allowed to breed? You make for a compelling argument! And you do it with such class!

    Yes, Chickenpox is usually a mild, self-limiting illness and the school has no right to tell him or his parents what to do and that's why he is suing them. If children who are not vaccinated against chicken pox were not allowed to go to school every time there is an "outbreak" in Ireland, there would be an uproar.
    But I'm the one who is brainwashed...

    You really don't get it, and they have phrased it poorly, he is not being banned for the 21 days because he is not vaccinated. He is banned because he could have it or may get it and keep the transmission window open for longer, therefore increasing the risk of it passing around for longer. I guarantee you, if his blood titres showed immunity from a past infection, he would be let in. Hard to have a law suit though if they accept the fairness of that.


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    #3587
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,257 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    ollkiller wrote: »
    The only uproar would be amongst a tiny percentage of the population like yourself. The rest of the responsible adults would see the blatantly obvious reason to not send an unvaccinated child to the school as a necessary step.

    I have to ask. If there was an outbreak of measles/chickenpox or whatever at your child's school, would you send your unvaccinated child into that school?

    why would anybody send your child into a situation where they can easily contract an illness they are not vaccinated for? who cares so little about their child's health that they would do that?


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    #3588
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,073 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    why would anybody send your child into a situation where they can easily contract an illness they are not vaccinated for? who cares so little about their child's health that they would do that?

    I imagine your question is rhetorical - anti-vaxxers would do this, they could give a rat's about their or other children's (or adults) health. They're the most anti-children's health group in history.


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    #3589
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,561 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    I feel like I should dig out the statistics and give a probability question a try.

    1. The probability of death, impairment or permanent injury from a preventable disease that can be vaccinated against?

    Versus the probability of...

    2. Death, impairment or permanent injury from a vaccine?

    I wonder how many decimal places option 2 would need to be calculated out to on per 100k basis.


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    #3590
    Amantine
    Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭Amantine


    ollkiller wrote: »
    The only uproar would be amongst a tiny percentage of the population like yourself. The rest of the responsible adults would see the blatantly obvious reason to not send an unvaccinated child to the school as a necessary step.

    I have to ask. If there was an outbreak of measles/chickenpox or whatever at your child's school, would you send your unvaccinated child into that school?

    Do you have kids? Why would you not send your kids just because a few kids have chicken pox? My kids have had chicken pox, so has everyone in my family. Both my parents had measles and so did all of their peers. There is some contagious disease every other week in creches, no parent could afford to stop sending their kid every time there is an "outbreak" of something. You do realise that it's normal for kids to get sick and build their immune system?


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    #3591
    Amantine
    Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭Amantine


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    why would anybody send your child into a situation where they can easily contract an illness they are not vaccinated for? who cares so little about their child's health that they would do that?

    Do you think you can protect your child from every single pathogen out there? You can't! Even if you could, it wouldn't be a good idea:
    "Exactly how a large-group day care affects a toddler's immune system is not clear. It may be that children are exposed to many different viruses at day care, priming their immune system to fight these same infections later on.

    "All children need to face the increased frequency of infection when they start interacting with a larger number of children in order to build immunity, and day care contributes to this process,"

    source:http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/12/06/daycare.kids/index.html


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    #3592
    CosmicFool
    Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭CosmicFool


    Amantine wrote: »
    Do you have kids? Why would you not send your kids just because a few kids have chicken pox? My kids have had chicken pox, so has everyone in my family. Both my parents had measles and so did all of their peers. There is some contagious disease every other week in creches, no parent could afford to stop sending their kid every time there is an "outbreak" of something. You do realise that it's normal for kids to get sick and build their immune system?


    A lot of people will be fine if they get measles but not everyone. Why take that chance if you can get a vaccine to prevent an unnecessary disease and the chance you'll die? What's wrong with you? You're a disgusting human being with you're nonsense you're throwing all over here putting peoples lives at risk.

    As many as one out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.


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    #3593
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,257 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Amantine wrote: »
    Do you think you can protect your child from every single pathogen out there? You can't! Even if you could, it wouldn't be a good idea:
    "Exactly how a large-group day care affects a toddler's immune system is not clear. It may be that children are exposed to many different viruses at day care, priming their immune system to fight these same infections later on.

    "All children need to face the increased frequency of infection when they start interacting with a larger number of children in order to build immunity, and day care contributes to this process,"

    source:http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/12/06/daycare.kids/index.html

    why would you knowingly expose your child to a known risk? And they were a teenager not a young child. Chicken pox can be more serious for teenagers including possible death for even healthy teenagers

    https://consumer.healthday.com/public-health-information-30/centers-for-disease-control-news-120/teen-s-death-from-chickenpox-highlights-need-for-vaccination-cdc-reports-675344.html


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    #3594
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,800 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Amantine wrote: »
    My kids have had chicken pox, so has everyone in my family. Both my parents had measles and so did all of their peers.

    You know what's preferable to that situation? no one having measles and chicken pox

    The "sure we all had it and no one died" might be fine for you anecdotally, but it's far from ideal on a population level, and absolutely not where deaths are involved and could have been avoided


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    #3595
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    why would anybody send your child into a situation where they can easily contract an illness they are not vaccinated for? who cares so little about their child's health that they would do that?

    Same reason conspiracy theorists believe in claims that are easily disproven and despite failed predictions. They have convinced themselves that they are right and are privy to knowledge that makes them feel superior.


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    #3596
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,889 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Amantine wrote: »
    Oxygen is harmless! Why don't you inject some air so we have proof, go on, you'll be fine!
    Injecting air is extremely dangerous.
    http://anesthesiology.pubs.asahq.org/article.aspx?articleid=2026502

    Your inability to evaluate risk affects the safety of others.


    I would rather be injected with the same amount of gallium. It's a liquid metal, just below aluminium in the periodic table and was first called eka-aluminium. Looks cool going into you too.


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    #3597
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Injecting air is extremely dangerous.
    http://anesthesiology.pubs.asahq.org/article.aspx?articleid=2026502

    Your inability to evaluate risk affects the safety of others.


    I would rather be injected with the same amount of gallium. It's a liquid metal, just below aluminium in the periodic table and was first called eka-aluminium. Looks cool going into you too.

    Dare you to try some di hydrogen monoxide.


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    #3598
    Amantine
    Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭Amantine


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    why would you knowingly expose your child to a known risk? And they were a teenager not a young child. Chicken pox can be more serious for teenagers including possible death for even healthy teenagers

    https://consumer.healthday.com/public-health-information-30/centers-for-disease-control-news-120/teen-s-death-from-chickenpox-highlights-need-for-vaccination-cdc-reports-675344.html

    So what you are saying is that children are better off getting chicken pox when they are younger... interesting!
    You are confirming what I was saying: chicken pox is the next vaccine that the CDC will push, I expect lots of fear mongering over this new "crisis".
    If it's so dangerous why doesn't the HSE offer it?


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    #3599
    Amantine
    Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭Amantine


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Injecting air is extremely dangerous.
    http://anesthesiology.pubs.asahq.org/article.aspx?articleid=2026502

    Your inability to evaluate risk affects the safety of others.


    Clearly you didn't get the sarcasm! Of course injecting air is dangerous, that's my point!
    Air in lungs = fine
    Air injested= fine
    Air injected in bloodstream ... good luck.


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    #3600
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,800 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Amantine wrote: »
    chicken pox is the next vaccine...

    Why not, if we could eradicate it completely, no more chicken pox


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    #3601
    Quandary
    Registered Users Posts: 5,295 ✭✭✭Quandary


    Amantine wrote: »
    So what you are saying is that children are better off getting chicken pox when they are younger... interesting!

    Hold your horses there Cathy Newman, that poster said nothing of the sort.

    You know that though.


This discussion has been closed.
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