ESB eCars pricing introduction

creedp · 25-10-2019 10:07AM

mickdw wrote: »

I don't get what is deemed acceptable and what is not at public charge points.
I commented on here before how a leaf always seemed to be charging at a local street charge point. The general response here was that it was ok for him to plug in for the day and feck off.
Now it seems if I buy a 530e bmw, I'm the devil if I dare to plug it in to a public charger.
There seems to be an odd under current of snobbery in the EV community not based on the badge but based entirely on how fast you can pull in power from the public charger.
If people are going to be limited to 45 mins, does it matter how much power someone is taking on board in that time?

I think that on street scp's should not be treated as 'destination chargers' for any category of EV. In any case many of the spaces are clearly marked for charging only. The amount of times I've turned up at an scp to find an EV/PHEV plugged in and not charging with no parking ticket to be seen. Just shows how many people don't even know the basics about public charging.

While I have an innate dislike of clampers I get a certain pleasure when I see non-charging EV clamped at on street scp's. My only gripe is that they are still blocking one of the most scarce resources available to man[kind] at present!!

Black_Knight · 25-10-2019 10:22AM

Mickeroo wrote: »

An EV driver I know was giving out on Twitter saying the charges were to deter people from using the chargers so ESB wouldn't have to install anymore.

I'm not making this up.

I can see their logic. Charge for charging, demand goes down on the current infrastructure, less pressure to add additional chargers.
I'd hope ESB are going to use the post fees usage statistics to determine which sites still have high usage and add additional chargers there.

Deleted User wrote: »

My OH is German and German address is no problem Might be worth checking out though I use the DC chargers so infrequently it would hardly be worth the effort.

Depends where you drive I guess. My trip home passes cashel where I need to charge anyways, so it was a no brainer for me.

Mickeroo · 25-10-2019 10:28AM

Black_Knight wrote: »

I can see their logic. Charge for charging, demand goes down on the current infrastructure, less pressure to add additional chargers.
I'd hope ESB are going to use the post fees usage statistics to determine which sites still have high usage and add additional chargers there.

That's fair but surely their goal is for the network to be profitable, I don't see how the current infrastructure would ever be profitable with the tiny fleet of EVs in the country at the moment.

rolion · 25-10-2019 10:35AM

kanuseeme wrote: »

A litre of petrol is €1.45 ATM, what will further increases in carbon tax make it?

unkel wrote: »

About €3 in about 10 years time? Diesel about €5?

Nermal wrote: »

Closer to a 22c per litre increase in petrol from what I can see. Assuming the €6 per ton increase per year for the next decade.

We are off topic here but the cost of the petrol will change not because of some carbon tax but mostly due to petro_dollar being slowly ands surely replaced by Euro.

25-10-2019 10:49AM

Mickeroo wrote: »

That's fair but surely their goal is for the network to be profitable, I don't see how the current infrastructure would ever be profitable with the tiny fleet of EVs in the country at the moment.

Tiny fleet for various reasons, Range is only getting acceptable to "some" cost of the 60 odd Kwh electrics is far too expensive for many People and there are far too few electric models to choose and infrastructure issues, no home charging for many People etc.

adunis · 25-10-2019 11:09AM

Sorry late to this party but

C4 cactus 1.6hdi 4.5l/100km so .45*1.35?=6 cent km

1.0 Octavia 5.8l/100km so .58*1.45?=8 cent km

Ioniq, 12.6kwh/100 so at home night rate is
12.6*8.8/100=.......One cent per km.

Esb public rate costs not that I care one jot cos I only ever use them for long journeys once in the blue moon.
3.odd or 5.odd per km.

Point to note above are long term average results for me personally in three super efficient examples of their kinds.

I would also consider the 1.0 Octavia style hatchback
The closest equivalent I could think of for an Ioniq volume,space,equipment wise all very similar.
An Ioniq is 30k,Octavia is 26.5k with manual box 28k? Auto.

charlieIRL · 25-10-2019 11:20AM

I tracked all my expenses using my ice for the last 3 years on an app on my phone. Every cent I spent on the car is itemised.
For diesel alone I was averaging €0.084 per km over 130,000kms
From my calculations, my EV will cost me €0.022 per km (night rate charging)

No brainier to switch to EV, even if I have to pay for a fast charge every now and then

unkel · 25-10-2019 11:53AM

charlieIRL wrote: »

From my calculations, my EV will cost me €0.022 per km (night rate charging)

That sounds very high. eGolf average consumption about 15kWh/100km? Night rate about 8c/kWh incl VAT? That means 15 * 0.08 / 100 = €0.012 per km

Saving over 130,000 km times (€0.084 - €0.012) is almost ten grand :eek:

25-10-2019 11:53AM

I'd be paying around 2300 a year in Diesel , Now I pay probably less than 200 a year to drive 30,000 Kms or more, a no brainer indeed. I should add that I have work charging.

Silent Running · 25-10-2019 11:58AM

adunis wrote: »

Sorry late to this party but

C4 cactus 1.6hdi 4.5l/100km so .45*1.35?=6 cent km

1.0 Octavia 5.8l/100km so .58*1.45?=8 cent km

Ioniq, 12.6kwh/100 so at home night rate is
12.6*8.8/100=.......One cent per km.

Esb public rate costs not that I care one jot cos I only ever use them for long journeys once in the blue moon.
3.odd or 5.odd per km.

Point to note above are long term average results for me personally in three super efficient examples of their kinds.

I would also consider the 1.0 Octavia style hatchback
The closest equivalent I could think of for an Ioniq volume,space,equipment wise all very similar.
An Ioniq is 30k,Octavia is 26.5k with manual box 28k? Auto.

Maybe another consideration needs to be factored in. I've never driven a 1 litre Octavia, but I can't imagine it beating many cars off the line. Probably the same for the Cactus. If you drove either hard, what would their consumption figures look like?

The Ioniq can be driven hard without costing very much more, and it can leave most "premium" cars sitting at the traffic light drag strip. :P

Mupchease · 25-10-2019 11:59AM

unkel wrote: »

That sounds very high. eGolf average consumption about 15kWh/100km? Night rate about 8c/kWh incl VAT? That means 15 * 0.08 / 100 = €0.012 per km

Saving over 130,000 km times (€0.084 - €0.012) is almost ten grand :eek:

Just for some more data for people I do a fair bit of Motorway driving but my egolf exec is averaging 16.78kWh/100km for the year to September. 25k on the clock. I’d say that will rise too coming into the winter. Best I got for a month was back in July at 15.5kWh / 100km.

unkel · 25-10-2019 12:26PM

Mupchease wrote: »

Just for some more data for people I do a fair bit of Motorway driving but my egolf exec is averaging 16.78kWh/100km for the year to September. 25k on the clock. I’d say that will rise too coming into the winter. Best I got for a month was back in July at 15.5kWh / 100km.

Even if it is 18kW/h on average, it's still only 1.36c/km. Unless you grossly overpay for your night rate of course

creedp · 25-10-2019 01:47PM

Silent Running wrote: »

Maybe another consideration needs to be factored in. I've never driven a 1 litre Octavia, but I can't imagine it beating many cars off the line. Probably the same for the Cactus. If you drove either hard, what would their consumption figures look like?

The Ioniq can be driven hard without costing very much more, and it can leave most "premium" cars sitting at the traffic light drag strip. :P

The focus at the moment is on EVs beating ICEs off the line. However, looking fwd to the histrionics when EV drivers trying to beat each other off the line in the future .. a back to the future moment but with EVs instead of V8 muscle cars racing each other from one set of traffic lights to the next. Wouldn't want to be on an e-scooter and turn around to see 2 EVs silently bearing down on me at 'ludicrous' speeds! Ah maybe motoring fun won't become extinct after all

unkel · 25-10-2019 01:52PM

Silent Running wrote: »

The Ioniq can be driven hard without costing very much more, and it can leave most "premium" cars sitting at the traffic light drag strip. :P

You should have seen that BMW520d that I raced twice without him knowing that I was racing him. I pretended I didn't even know he was there. From the corner of my eye I spotted the horror and confusion on his face

25-10-2019 01:56PM

unkel wrote: »

You should have seen that BMW520d that I raced twice without him knowing that I was racing him. I pretended I didn't even know he was there. From the corner of my eye I spotted the horror and confusion on his face

And then you woke up !

unkel · 25-10-2019 01:59PM

Nope. I was way ahead from the lights, but he crept up on me and overtook me at about 80km/h. Twice. But I was holding off at that speed anyway as there are often checks and the road has 80km/h speed limit (N4 outbound a bit past Heuston)

I'd say if there were 0-50km/h reference sites, they would back me up. Didn't I read somewhere that the original i3 (ohne REx

) is quicker to 50km/h than the E92 BMW M3?

charlieIRL · 25-10-2019 02:09PM

unkel wrote: »

That sounds very high. eGolf average consumption about 15kWh/100km? Night rate about 8c/kWh incl VAT? That means 15 * 0.08 / 100 = €0.012 per km

Saving over 130,000 km times (€0.084 - €0.012) is almost ten grand :eek:

My golf doesn't do 15kWh/100kms!!! 19-20kWh is more like it, shoots up when using heater as well. Still its cheaper and I have a new car.........

...and i'm helping the environment!!!

25-10-2019 02:10PM

unkel wrote: »

Nope. I was way ahead from the lights, but he crept up on me and overtook me at about 80km/h. Twice. But I was holding off at that speed anyway as there are often checks and the road has 80km/h speed limit (N4 outbound a bit past Heuston)

I'd say if there were 0-50km/h reference sites, they would back me up. Didn't I read somewhere that the original i3 (ohne REx ) is quicker to 50km/h than the E92 BMW M3?

Lol I have no idea, I want more power, it's funny actually, when I came from the leaf to the i3 I wa delighted with the power upgrade now I don't really notice it, until I drive the Outlander of course or my Mother's car then I really do appreciate the power, RWD and instant acceleration.

unkel · 25-10-2019 02:20PM

Yeah I'm afraid to go drive a BEV i3 because I reckon I might be hooked

DrPhilG · 25-10-2019 03:40PM

I spent a weekend in a BMW x1 diesel while my i3 was getting serviced.

Horrendous. Nearly got killed at a roundabout because I didn't anticipate just how ridiculously slow off the line it was.

I could never go back to ICE.

Mike9832 · 25-10-2019 03:45PM

DrPhilG wrote: »

I spent a weekend in a BMW x1 diesel while my i3 was getting serviced.

Horrendous. Nearly got killed at a roundabout because I didn't anticipate just how ridiculously slow off the line it was.

I could never go back to ICE.

An auto one?

25-10-2019 04:16PM

DrPhilG wrote: »

I spent a weekend in a BMW x1 diesel while my i3 was getting serviced.

Horrendous. Nearly got killed at a roundabout because I didn't anticipate just how ridiculously slow off the line it was.

I could never go back to ICE.

Yep, exactly how I feel when I get into the Outlander Manual Diesel, horrible experience driving a manual ICE, it really feels like 19th Century technology.

25-10-2019 04:16PM

Mike9832 wrote: »

An auto one?

Better but still not like EV, still need to wait for the Auto Box and Revs.

Even my Brothers DSG seems like it takes forever to get going.

Calahonda52 · 25-10-2019 08:32PM

ESB’s EV Charging Developments in Ireland and the UK

on Wednesday 6th November from 6:30 pm, Engineers Ireland, 22 Clyde Road, Ballsbridge, Dublin 4

In this presentation, electromobility specialist with ESB, Brian Carroll, will discuss the EV High Power Charging Infrastructure Development Project in Ireland. ESB received €10m in funding from the Climate Action Fund for this project, and will involve a considerable adjustments of the EV charging network and the development of a new electrical systems which will enable recharging of EVs at up 350 kW at the larger MC connected hubs. ESB have also won contracts in London and Coventry to develop rapid charging networks and is set to expand across the UK in the future. Brian has worked with ESB's ecars team since 2014, and his role in the Climate Action Fund project is primarily focused on technical and project delivery matters.

this.lad · 25-10-2019 11:41PM

I notice a new charger showing on the ecars map at Kilcullen on the m9.

Is this part of the new scheme I wonder? Finally something on the m9, if they could pull the Carlow one out and put it at the Wexford road junction, the naas one to the motorway and get a fast charger somewhere near Kilkenny it would make a huge difference on this route.

Edit. See it on plug share 2 X 50kw triple head chargers there!

unkel · 26-10-2019 12:02AM

Yep photos were uploaded a few days ago here. The first ever ESB charging site where more than one car can DC fast charge at a time. Hallelujah!

(albeit at 2009 speeds, not 2019 speeds)

Commercial companies (Tesla / Ionity) are installing 6 bay 350kW charging stations in Ireland. For free. Yet our government is using our tax payers money in a very inefficient way by installing inferior, outdated, unreliable (Portuguese EFACEC) and slow chargers (1 or 2 bay 50kW). We really should stop this and use our tax money in a more efficient way.

this.lad · 26-10-2019 12:18AM

unkel wrote: »

Yep photos were uploaded a few days ago here. The first ever ESB charging site where more than one car can DC fast charge at a time. Hallelujah!

(albeit at 2009 speeds, not 2019 speeds)

Commercial companies (Tesla / Ionity) are installing 6 bay 350kW charging stations in Ireland. For free. Yet our government is using our tax payers money in a very inefficient way by installing inferior, outdated, unreliable (Portuguese EFACEC) and slow chargers (1 or 2 bay 50kW). We really should stop this and use our tax money in a more efficient way.

How much quicker would you be on a 350kw v a 50kw given the max charge speeds of most cars?

unkel · 26-10-2019 12:27AM

Tesla Model 3 (the best selling car in some European countries this year) can charge at up to 250kW at Tesla Supercharger 3 and at up to nearly 200kW at Ionity 350kW chargers (2019).

For some cars like all the Nissan Leafs, with their CHAdeMO charging, there would be no difference at all, still stuck at 43kW (2009). And they would not be able to charge at all at Tesla Superchargers or Ionity fast chargers as neither support that obsolete Japanese protocol.

jasonb · 26-10-2019 12:39AM

unkel wrote: »

For some cars like all the Nissan Leafs, with their CHAdeMO charging, there would be no difference at all, still stuck at 43kW (2009). And they would not be able to charge at all at Tesla Superchargers or Ionity fast chargers as neither support that obsolete Japanese protocol.

Not to be pedantic, but while I’m no expert in charging protocols, as far as I understand it if you buy a brand new Nissan Leaf today, it comes with a CHAdeMO port. So while the port itself may or may not be considered obsolete, it’s still being installed in brand new cars, and therefore in my opinion chargers being installed should support it.

unkel · 26-10-2019 12:48AM

jasonb wrote: »

it’s still being installed in brand new cars, and therefore in my opinion chargers being installed should support it.

Why? You sound like you are in favour of 5 year communist centrally enforced plans. Last time that system was in place people died of starvation.

If Nissan (the only company in the world that still installs CHAdeMO chargers in their EVs) wants their customers to (real slowl) fast charge at 43kW, let them install a charging network without the help of the tax payer.

Will they? Will they ****.

The only crowds to install fast charging networks (real fast) are Tesla and Ionity (a consortium made of most other EV producers that sell EVs in most of the world)

ESB eCars pricing introduction

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