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ESB eCars pricing introduction

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Comments

  • #302
    peposhi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭peposhi


    sk8board wrote: »
    I didn’t forget that charging at home costs far less - my point was about total cost of car ownership - the fuel cost is the smaller part in both our cases.
    Why would I need a €40k kona versus the €23k one, just to save up to €500 pa on fuel! ( and that’s assuming I use no public chargers, and also assumes I buy the €40k car for cash).

    My point was simply that anyone doing 10-15,000 km pa has no financial fuel-saving incentive, but still has the Massive EV car cost premium, meaning the total cost of ownership is higher, including any potential reduction in depreciation on the other end.

    ICE Kona prices start at €21500 and go up to €33000 for the top performance one that compare to the EV Kona... don’t see much of a difference here...
    An eNiro 40kw is roughly €33k where a similarly specked automatic Scoda Octavia is more than €37k


  • #303
    Nermal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,836 ✭✭✭Nermal


    unkel wrote: »
    About €3 in about 10 years time? Diesel about €5?

    Closer to a 22c per litre increase in petrol from what I can see. Assuming the €6 per ton increase per year for the next decade.


  • #304
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,264 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    peposhi wrote: »
    ICE Kona prices start at €21500 and go up to €33000 for the top performance one that compare to the EV Kona... don’t see much of a difference here...
    An eNiro 40kw is roughly €33k where a similarly specked automatic Scoda Octavia is more than €37k

    It's a well-known fact that you are only allowed to compare an EV against the lowest spec least performant version of any ICE car. That way we can condemn manufacturers for not releasing low spec EVs.

    Also, when a manufacturer releases a lower spec EV, we have to condemn the entire range, based on the underwhelming features of the entry-level version.

    Jesus, peposhi you are making it really hard to stack the deck against any given EV.


  • #305
    peposhi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭peposhi


    liamog wrote: »
    It's a well-known fact that you are only allowed to compare an EV against the lowest spec least performant version of any ICE car. That way we can condemn manufacturers for not releasing low spec EVs.

    Also, when a manufacturer releases a lower spec EV, we have to condemn the entire range, based on the underwhelming features of the entry-level version.

    Jesus, peposhi you are making it really hard to stack the deck against any given EV.
    It took me quite a lot of time to explain a colleague of mine that he has no grounds to compare his bog standard Dacia Sandero for €12k with any EV apart from the fact that both cars will bring you from A to B, liamog.


  • #306
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,665 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    peposhi wrote: »
    It took me quite a lot of time to explain a colleague of mine that he has no grounds to compare his bog standard Dacia Sandero for €12k with any EV apart from the fact that both cars will bring you from A to B, liamog.

    Now if only we finally got that low range 20kWh Dacia Sandero EV for €16k that I've been banging on about, that would turn the tide for the low budget market.

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  • #307
    peposhi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭peposhi


    unkel wrote: »
    Now if only we finally got that low range 20kWh Dacia Sandero EV for €16k that I've been banging on about, that would turn the tide for the low budget market.

    Not yet 😬

    First we need to get over the super expensive ESB charges:)


  • #308
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,899 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I don't get what is deemed acceptable and what is not at public charge points.
    I commented on here before how a leaf always seemed to be charging at a local street charge point. The general response here was that it was ok for him to plug in for the day and feck off.
    Now it seems if I buy a 530e bmw, I'm the devil if I dare to plug it in to a public charger.
    There seems to be an odd under current of snobbery in the EV community not based on the badge but based entirely on how fast you can pull in power from the public charger.
    If people are going to be limited to 45 mins, does it matter how much power someone is taking on board in that time?


  • #309
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,665 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    peposhi wrote: »
    Not yet 😬

    First we need to get over the super expensive ESB charges:)

    Only a few negative idiots (at this stage it's probably fair to assign them the worst possible adjective: imbecile) are banging on about these new ESB charges. The majority of people already know they will buy an EV in the near future. It's up to us peposhi, to nudge people towards going EV. If we make even a little difference, we will have saved lives and we will have contributed towards slowing down climate change.

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  • #310
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,665 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    mickdw wrote: »
    I don't get what is deemed acceptable and what is not at public charge points.
    I commented on here before how a leaf always seemed to be charging at a local street charge point. The general response here was that it was ok for him to plug in for the day and feck off.
    Now it seems if I buy a 530e bmw, I'm the devil if I dare to plug it in to a public charger.
    There seems to be an odd under current of snobbery in the EV community not based on the badge but based entirely on how fast you can pull in power from the public charger.
    If people are going to be limited to 45 mins, does it matter how much power someone is taking on board in that time?

    Totally valid point. And the whole discussion about charging etiquette is just a complete waste of time. Charge wherever you want. Charges for charging should charge people for the resource they are using (holding up)

    So - charge very little for slow chargers (maybe 20-30c/kWh), no time limit, and only a very soft overcharge limit of like €1 per hour

    Charge a bit more for fast chargers (maybe the current 35c/kWh that's going to be in place for the ESB chargers soon) and also charge maybe 30c/minute while charging and €1 per minute over charge fee for every minute over 30 minutes

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  • #311
    krissovo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭krissovo


    mickdw wrote: »
    If people are going to be limited to 45 mins, does it matter how much power someone is taking on board in that time?

    It’s not snobbery per se but the fact people want to travel from A to B and its human nature to get the journey completed as quickly as possible so they can enjoy the reason for the trip. Now you in your PHEV have options to complete that journey without using a fast charger where as the BEV user does not. If you want to take the charger you are in your right to do so but you are potentially significantly increasing the travel time for a BEV owner for the sake of a euro or two. Heck on a long journey in one of my BEV’s I would happily pay the fuel difference to a PHEV owner if they were queued in front of me to let me charge quicker and save up to ~45 minutes on my journey.

    The charging fee on fast chargers will make PHEV owners think twice about using a fast charger to effectively slow charge their car to get a extra 20 to 40 km’s “cheap” motoring opening up the charger for BEV drivers. It’s why the vast majority of owners welcome the fees, it will speed up all our journey times when we make the odd journey outside our normal commute.

    Now if we had more than the token single fast charger and had a decent infrastructure on main routes we would be best of friends while we both charged our batteries to whatever level we wanted:D


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  • #312
    slave1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,849 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    So charging will cure queues at fast chargers? Passed by a Tesla supercharger setup today in Orlando, was full with not one car occupied and 3 model 3’s waiting for a charge


  • #313
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    peposhi wrote: »
    ICE Kona prices start at €21500 and go up to €33000 for the top performance one that compare to the EV Kona... don’t see much of a difference here...
    An eNiro 40kw is roughly €33k where a similarly specked automatic Scoda Octavia is more than €37k

    Isn't the Kona EV pathetically spec'd here in Ireland? Kona is probably the worst case of overinflated EV though.


  • #314
    September1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭September1


    Calahonda52 wrote: »
    19th October what year?
    2019 is gone, so maybe 2029


    I meant 19th November this year, first day of charges - when EVs become more expensive to run then most ICE vehicles.

    unkel wrote: »
    I'd buy all of them at those prices :p


    Please leave some for me.


  • #315
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,665 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    slave1 wrote: »
    So charging will cure queues at fast chargers? Passed by a Tesla supercharger setup today in Orlando, was full with not one car occupied and 3 model 3’s waiting for a charge

    Then that supercharger needs to double in size. Tesla is still heavily investing in their supercharger network (from figures I read from their Q3 report), so no doubt it will get sorted

    I also hear from some of the busiest superchargers in the Netherlands that are sometimes nearly fully occupied. Electrification is rapid now in the Netherlands though, Model 3 is the best selling car over there.

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  • #316
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,281 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Superchargers have substantial overstay fees, so it's unlikely the Teslas were sitting there fully charged.


  • #317
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    kanuseeme wrote: »
    A litre of petrol is €1.45 ATM, what will further increases in carbon tax make it?

    Getting cars off the road should be the priority

    Moving everyone to electric is just kicking the can


  • #318
    k123456
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,189 ✭✭✭k123456


    How do the ESB charges compare to Ionity using a Maingau card, please


  • #319
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,787 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    k123456 wrote: »
    How do the ESB charges compare to Ionity using a Maingau card, please

    They're 7 to 11c per kwh cheaper ain't they? Thought Maingau was 40c per kwh.


  • #320
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,665 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    k123456 wrote: »
    How do the ESB charges compare to Ionity using a Maingau card, please

    ESB 33c/kWh (or 29c/kWh if you subscribe)
    Ionity with Maingau 40c/kWh

    Edit: corrected my figures

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  • #321
    JohnC.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    k123456 wrote: »
    How do the ESB charges compare to Ionity using a Maingau card, please

    Maingau 40c
    ESB 33c or 29c in the €5 per month membership thing. But this is for 50kwh chargers. The 150kwh will be more, but not known yet.


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  • #322
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,787 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    unkel wrote: »
    ESB 35c/kWh
    Ionity with Maingau 40c/kWh

    ESB are 33c/kwh or 29c/kwh if you subscribe I thought?


  • #323
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    We need a single way to pay and not have to register for cards etc, look at the disaster in the U.K, all the different ways to pay is a joke.


  • #324
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Deleted User wrote: »
    We need a single way to pay and not have to register for cards etc, look at the disaster in the U.K, all the different ways to pay is a joke.

    Sure all you need is Ionity, Maingau, Esb, easyGo, and all the apps + more. :confused:


  • #325
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Black_Knight wrote: »
    Sure all you need is Ionity, Maingau, Esb, easyGo, and all the apps + more. :confused:

    Have to admit I have no idea what Maingua is ?

    They need to make this as easy as possible especially for those not tech savy.


  • #326
    kennethsmyth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    unkel wrote: »
    Only a few negative idiots (at this stage it's probably fair to assign them the worst possible adjective: imbecile) are banging on about these new ESB charges. The majority of people already know they will buy an EV in the near future. It's up to us peposhi, to nudge people towards going EV. If we make even a little difference, we will have saved lives and we will have contributed towards slowing down climate change.

    For 50kw chargers that should be 45mins as 30mins is just not enough, and €1per min is a bit too far 50c per min.


  • #327
    kennethsmyth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    Black_Knight wrote: »
    Sure all you need is Ionity, Maingau, Esb, easyGo, and all the apps + more. :confused:


    Agree, no apps if you dont want just card payment - this is now law (or becoming law) in uk


  • #328
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Have to admit I have no idea what Maingua is ?

    They need to make this as easy as possible especially for those not tech savy.

    The easy option is the ionity app. Maingau is a german electricity provider (as far as I know) who have an app/card which works with Ionity chargers. They charge per kWh (40c/kWh), unlike Ionity who charge a flat €8 fee. It's not trivial to sign up to them (lots of the process is in German, and putting in a postcode has proved to be difficult), but if you use ionity chargers with a smaller battery car (ioniq) they're better value.

    Thread here


  • #329
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    kennethsmyth wrote: »
    For 50kw chargers that should be 45mins as 30mins is just not enough, and €1per min is a bit too far 50c per min.

    Thought the overstay fee was a once off €5 after 45 minutes


  • #330
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,787 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    An EV driver I know was giving out on Twitter saying the charges were to deter people from using the chargers so ESB wouldn't have to install anymore.

    I'm not making this up. :o


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  • #331
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Black_Knight wrote: »
    The easy option is the ionity app. Maingau is a german electricity provider (as far as I know) who have an app/card which works with Ionity chargers. They charge per kWh (40c/kWh), unlike Ionity who charge a flat €8 fee. It's not trivial to sign up to them (lots of the process is in German, and putting in a postcode has proved to be difficult), but if you use ionity chargers with a smaller battery car (ioniq) they're better value.

    Thread here

    My OH is German and German address is no problem ;) Might be worth checking out though I use the DC chargers so infrequently it would hardly be worth the effort.


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