Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

GM228 · 25-10-2019 12:48AM

Well, according to Junker "bull****" was responsible for Brexit.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-news-latest-eu-juncker-referendum-campaign-a9169936.html%3famp

He has accused Johnson of telling lies during the referendum.

Junker wrote:

They were saying things, some of them – lying. Telling the people things which have nothing to do with our day by day reality

Junker wrote:

David Cameron asked me not to intervene in the referendum campaign because he said the European Commission is even less popular on the islands than on the continent ... That was a major mistake: I should have intervened, because nobody was denying, contesting the lies Boris Johnson and others were spreading around.

Longer video here:-

https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2019/10/24/juncker-calls-boris-johnson-a-liar-in-fiery-speech-slating-brexit-bullsht-10979258/amp/

Junker wrote:

If for 46 years you are told day after day, and you are reading in your papers, that the place of the British is not really in Europe, but that they are there for economic and internal market reasons, and all the rest – it’s nonsense, bull****, as they are saying in the European parliament – don’t be surprised if voters are asked to give their impression, some of them, a small majority but nevertheless a clear majority, is voting like a majority of the British sovereign people is voting

lawred2 · 25-10-2019 12:49AM

devnull wrote: »

The trouble is that if these things are not respected then you are on a slippery slope where anyone does whatever they like and it is in that kind of environment that would allow fascist dictators to flourish and history shows us that when they have the ability to do so, some truly awful actions have followed.

Unfortunately sometimes when people are used to the way things are for so long, they forget the lessons that their ancestors have learnt in the past, because they think that history will not repeat itself. These things are there for a reason and the reasons are to safeguard people against things that could be abused.

I think you're wrong there. Fascism is only something that happens in mainland Europe.

MrMusician18 · 25-10-2019 12:57AM

No more than the Brits, I see we are still fighting the 2016 referendum here...

Letwin_Larry · 25-10-2019 01:21AM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

No more than the Brits, I see we are still fighting the 2016 referendum here...

i have to confess i am totally sick of Brexit. After 3 years of this $hite nothing is even close to being resolved.

the news gives us the same horse manure every night.

"this is going to be the most pivitol week, this is set to be the week, this week is about to be the most telling, this week's vote will show us, blah blah blah .... "

it's like playing golf in a bog.

Strazdas · 25-10-2019 01:28AM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

No more than the Brits, I see we are still fighting the 2016 referendum here...

Yes, but not so much the question of whether it is right or wrong for the UK to leave the EU.

Most Brexit critics believe the holding of the referendum and the referendum campaign was an utter shambles and those public figures defending the process as 100% legitimate are either liars or crooks.

Jamiekelly · 25-10-2019 01:30AM

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Iv got to admire this young lady brexiteers confidence on question time talking about Nissan and car manufacturing.

The business is fast moving JIT manufacturing and cut throat.

Edit: Kate Andrews of the IEA

Good to know the right wing think tanks have a policy of transfers for employees looking to add another acronym to their CV's. Kate Andrews used to be a spokeswoman for the Taxpayers Alliance. She must have been a little uncomfortable when pundits regularly asked the TA to disclose their funding sources during any debates. Kind of hard to convince people your fighting for their rights as taxpayers when the Koch Brothers in the USA are your primary wage payers. The Institute of Economic Affairs is at least more up front about being a private lobby group and aren't hiding behind the "Taxpayers".

Taken from Wikipedia:
The IEA supports privatising the National Health Service (NHS); campaigns against controls on junk food; attacks trades unions; and defends zero-hour contracts, unpaid internships and tax havens.

Kate Andrews has also been on Sky News multiple times often criticising Ireland for being a tax haven and saying that privatizing certain parts of the NHS would only strenghten it in the long term :rolleyes:

fash · 25-10-2019 04:16AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It does not get any simpler than that. To me that means they leave all the institutions of the EU.
.

I entirely fail to see how this follows considering that the leave campaign was predicated on comparisons with Norway and Switzerland"s relationship with the EU, turning back the clock to the EEC, and saying "only a madman would think of leaving (any particular beneficial EU institution being discussed at that time)".
Frankly I don't believe it is possibly arguable that the vast majority of the UK did not vote to remain within the single market and customs union given that 48% most certainly did and a large amount of the others also intended to.

Tell me how · 25-10-2019 04:46AM

Jamiekelly wrote: »

Good to know the right wing think tanks have a policy of transfers for employees looking to add another acronym to their CV's. Kate Andrews used to be a spokeswoman for the Taxpayers Alliance. She must have been a little uncomfortable when pundits regularly asked the TA to disclose their funding sources during any debates. Kind of hard to convince people your fighting for their rights as taxpayers when the Koch Brothers in the USA are your primary wage payers. The Institute of Economic Affairs is at least more up front about being a private lobby group and aren't hiding behind the "Taxpayers".

Taken from Wikipedia:
The IEA supports privatising the National Health Service (NHS); campaigns against controls on junk food; attacks trades unions; and defends zero-hour contracts, unpaid internships and tax havens.

Kate Andrews has also been on Sky News multiple times often criticising Ireland for being a tax haven and saying that privatizing certain parts of the NHS would only strenghten it in the long term :rolleyes:

Kate is also a fan of not disclosing the source of the IEA's funding, although one of which has been revealed to be BP.
Here they are languishing within the Highly Opaque category.

This is where they rank in terms of transparency.

Zubeneschamali · 25-10-2019 06:43AM

Danzy wrote: »

How long can this stalemate go on?

25 years or so, given how long Norway was applying to join, or Sweden has taken to adopt the Euro.

murphaph · 25-10-2019 06:52AM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Modern Euro scepticism came about in the 1960s and 70s (pushed by the Left by and large at first) , but anti European attitudes started long before a notion of a European Union.

Then why did the electorate vote to join (stay in) the EEC in 1972? If the UK was anti Europe going back centuries as you contend, this would not have been the case. You're talking rubbish.

Zubeneschamali · 25-10-2019 06:53AM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

There were people on this thread only a few days ago rubbishing the idea that there might be unrest if Brexit doesn't happen.

Hopefully that poll opens some eyes.

Ha ha! No.

The poll doesn't ask if pensioners are going to attack MPs or remainers, it just asks if they think violence would be a price worth paying for Brexit, consistent with Major Harumph Blimp types saying serve's 'em right.

And I think it is quite likely that peaceful Remain protestors will be attacked an injured at some point by Leave thugs, and if I were a UK citizen I would tell the pollsters that it would be worth it if the protests achieved a Remain result.

So there is really nothing in that poll that says any of the people polled would actually commit any violence at all.

Zubeneschamali · 25-10-2019 07:00AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Impossible to overestimate the strength of feeling if the result was overturned.

A lot of people would be very frustrated and angry.

Not only is it possible to overestimate it, it is routine. Indeed, you just did it. The frustrated and angry brigade will write to the Telegraph, not overthrow the Government.

If Brexit is stopped, things will simply go on as they are, unchanged. There will be no trigger for violence.

Now, if Brexit goes ahead, that will be different. Food shortages are exactly the sort of thing that triggers riots. Mass factory closures. Fuel rationing. Avoidable deaths in hospitals.

Zubeneschamali · 25-10-2019 07:01AM

Strazdas wrote: »

"We won, you lost, the decision is final and you can never vote on this again, so suck it up, you losers".

"Also, we don't like the result of the 2017 vote and demand an early election"

Kermit.de.frog · 25-10-2019 07:07AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Now, if Brexit goes ahead, that will be different. Food shortages are exactly the sort of thing that triggers riots. Mass factory closures. Fuel rationing. Avoidable deaths in hospitals.

All complete bs.

So you are saying the UK is trapped in the EU?

We are all trapped in the EU because if we leave these terrible things will happen to us?

The UK will leave. The EU will last a few years longer but I think ultimately it is a failed experiment.

We will go back to sovereignty over our affairs and the EU will be the much looser economic community we first joined. Transitioning from the euro will be difficult but Ireland is pretty well placed as is Germany. Other countries it will hit them a little harder but they'll survive. We all move on.

That is for the best - the alternative does not bear thinking about.

gmisk · 25-10-2019 07:10AM

dfx- wrote: »

What choice do Unionists have? UUP who are on the floor or DUP. Arlene could waste hundreds of millions of taxpayers money and Stormont collapse and still get a substantial number of votes.

Vote for the alliance?
It's what I would be doing in their position

Zubeneschamali · 25-10-2019 07:13AM

hotmail.com wrote: »

I'm commenting on the underlying anti European sentiment in Britain.

Since Britain is in Europe, I am not sure what anti-European sentiment would even mean.

Zubeneschamali · 25-10-2019 07:15AM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Oh dear god. Move on.

No. Someday there will be a sworn inquiry into this and folks will be named and shamed. Brexit will stick to them like Iraq sticks to Blair.

Zubeneschamali · 25-10-2019 07:30AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

All complete bs.

So you are saying the UK is trapped in the EU?

We are all trapped in the EU because if we leave these terrible things will happen to us?

??? I said nothing of the sort.

If riots are triggered by these disruptions, disruptions which the UK Government themselves have predicted (even though they lied about it and tried to hide the predictions), it will be because the UK will already have left the EU, not because no-one can leave.

And if the Theresa May had reached across to Labour and agreed a Norway style Brexit after the Referendum instead of drawing a bunch of Hard Brexit xenophobic Red Lines, they'd be out already and people would hardly notice except that Farage would be out of work.

Wanderer78 · 25-10-2019 07:39AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote:

So you are saying the UK is trapped in the EU?

It really is a hotel california situation

Kermit.de.frog wrote:

We will go back to sovereignty over our affairs and the EU will be the much looser economic community we first joined. Transitioning from the euro will be difficult but Ireland is pretty well placed as is Germany. Other countries it will hit them a little harder but they'll survive. We all move on.

Detangaling euro denominated debts would be interesting, it would hardly lead to massive capital flight, would it? What then? It takes the bones of a year to create a functioning currency system, well placed!

hotmail.com · 25-10-2019 07:44AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Since Britain is in Europe, I am not sure what anti-European sentiment would even mean.

Then perhaps research it. There are plenty of lectures on youtube explaining the long history of anti European feeling in Britain.

And Britain may be part of Europe but it is not part of the continent.

hotmail.com · 25-10-2019 07:47AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

No. Someday there will be a sworn inquiry into this and folks will be named and shamed. Brexit will stick to them like Iraq sticks to Blair.

No one even talks about this anymore?

Shelga · 25-10-2019 07:56AM

It’s a single-issue election, so why don’t they just have a referendum? Oh yeah, because Johnson needs an election.

listermint · 25-10-2019 08:26AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

All complete bs.

So you are saying the UK is trapped in the EU?

We are all trapped in the EU because if we leave these terrible things will happen to us?

The UK will leave. The EU will last a few years longer but I think ultimately it is a failed experiment.

We will go back to sovereignty over our affairs and the EU will be the much looser economic community we first joined. Transitioning from the euro will be difficult but Ireland is pretty well placed as is Germany. Other countries it will hit them a little harder but they'll survive. We all move on.

That is for the best - the alternative does not bear thinking about.

You hate the EU and have done for a number of years. I think you'll have to certainly agree your viewpoint is somewhat tainted . And in my opinion irrational for the most part on any subject related to the EU in so far as you bring up conspiracy theories long since debunked for Ireland's own membership

listermint · 25-10-2019 08:28AM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Then perhaps research it. There are plenty of lectures on youtube explaining the long history of anti European feeling in Britain.

And Britain may be part of Europe but it is not part of the continent.

Lectures... Or generic YouTube nonsense for which there is days of video based crap

devnull · 25-10-2019 08:40AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Now, if Brexit goes ahead, that will be different. Food shortages are exactly the sort of thing that triggers riots. Mass factory closures. Fuel rationing. Avoidable deaths in hospitals.

There's already a shortage of Ibuprofen which pharmacies in the UK are claiming is due to large stockpiling ahead of a no deal Brexit. I had to go to 8 shops yesterday to find any and even then it was overpriced Nurofen or nothing.

According to a local pharmacist close to where I work when I'm in the UK, the pharma companies have seen a massive hike in demand that they are unable to keep up with. Apparently the biggest demand they've ever seen.

Strazdas · 25-10-2019 08:45AM

Shelga wrote: »

It’s a single-issue election, so why don’t they just have a referendum? Oh yeah, because Johnson needs an election.

The extreme resistance to a referendum of any description suggests Leave voters and the right wing press fear it would be lost.

A GE is more attractive as they feel Johnson can bluff and bluster his way through with "Let's get Brexit done" and other meaningless soundbites.

ancapailldorcha · 25-10-2019 08:45AM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Oh dear god. Move on.

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

This is great television.

Enough of this please.

Danzy · 25-10-2019 08:48AM

Strazdas wrote: »

The extreme resistance to a referendum of any description suggests Leave voters and the right wing press fear it would be lost.

A GE is more attractive as they feel Johnson can bluff and bluster his way through with "Let's get Brexit done" and other meaningless soundbites.

The problem with a referendum is the dragging out of this.

There already was one.

Why would anyone want this to go on.

hotmail.com · 25-10-2019 08:56AM

listermint wrote: »

Lectures... Or generic YouTube nonsense for which there is days of video based crap

Wait, do people dispute the anti European Union/ anti Europe feeling in Britain - it's all a myth?

Danzy · 25-10-2019 09:00AM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Wait, do people dispute the anti European Union/ anti Europe feeling in Britain - it's all a myth?

History book sales in decline for years.

Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

Comments