The Sub 3 Support Thread

Tommy Max · 20-10-2019 11:09pm

How many gels and when did you take them any experienced sub 3ers?

Kissy Lips · 21-10-2019 8:33am

squinn2912 wrote: »

They’ll cut the pace right down from 22 which begs the question why crucify people early on. Might not be the most popular thing to say on here but it’s my opinion

Does 'cut the pace right down' mean going faster or slower? I can read it both ways.

squinn2912 · 21-10-2019 9:12am

Kissy Lips wrote: »

Does 'cut the pace right down' mean going faster or slower? I can read it both ways.

Slower. The point I made is that I feel they go out too fast early on

kerrylad1 · 21-10-2019 11:18am

Tommy Max wrote: »

How many gels and when did you take them any experienced sub 3ers?

1 at the start,then miles 5,10,15,20and mile 23.So 6 total.

squinn2912 · 21-10-2019 11:22am

kerrylad1 wrote: »

1 at the start,then miles 5,10,15,20and mile 23.So 6 total.

Holy God you’d be like a human slush puppy! I tried one at the start in Belfast and had stomach cramps for 6 miles. Usually take 4;6, 10, 15 and 18. If there’s another one going spare on the course I might take it too

OOnegative · 24-10-2019 8:03am

kerrylad1 wrote: »

1 at the start,then miles 5,10,15,20and mile 23.So 6 total.

You racing Sunday J?

muloc · 24-10-2019 10:16am

squinn2912 wrote: »

Slower. The point I made is that I feel they go out too fast early on

Anyone know the splits of the 3 hour pacers from last year?

Kissy Lips · 24-10-2019 10:21am

muloc wrote: »

Anyone know the splits of the 3 hour pacers from last year?

good question!!

OOnegative · 24-10-2019 10:37am

muloc wrote: »

Anyone know the splits of the 3 hour pacers from last year?

One of the 3hr pacers.

24-10-2019 10:38am

muloc wrote: »

Anyone know the splits of the 3 hour pacers from last year?

https://www.tdleventservices.co.uk/event-results/individual?event=3073&racenumber=201
https://www.tdleventservices.co.uk/event-results/individual?event=3073&racenumber=204
A little fast in the first half, but certainly not 2:54 pace

Tipptatlers · 24-10-2019 10:53am

https://www.strava.com/activities/1932075119

Strava of 3 hour pacer

kerrylad1 · 24-10-2019 11:05am

OOnegative wrote: »

You racing Sunday J?

Yes B.Really looking forward it.Nothing in training,indicates that I have a p.b in me.But I will go for it anyway.If I blow up "AGAIN",so be it.Fantastic running again in Amsterdam.Mite try ur carbo loading routine,of 4 beers this Saturday evening.ðŸ˜Š

OOnegative · 24-10-2019 11:09am

kerrylad1 wrote: »

Yes B.Really looking forward it.Nothing in training,indicates that I have a p.b in me.But I will go for it anyway.If I blow up "AGAIN",so be it.Fantastic running again in Amsterdam.Mite try ur carbo loading routine,of 4 beers this Saturday evening.ðŸ˜Š

Best of luck with it, go for it is right nothing to lose. My carbo loading routine worked fine for me!! Have u on the tracker.

squinn2912 · 24-10-2019 11:21am

Tipptatlers wrote: »

https://www.strava.com/activities/1932075119

Strava of 3 hour pacer

6:50 pace takes you in at sub3 but 7 of the first 11 miles are quicker than 6:40 pace one mile at 6:30. Any coach would not tell their athlete to pace 20 seconds quick early on in the race it’s madness

24-10-2019 11:40am

squinn2912 wrote: »

6:50 pace takes you in at sub3 but 7 of the first 11 miles are quicker than 6:40 pace one mile at 6:30. Any coach would not tell their athlete to pace 20 seconds quick early on in the race it’s madness

You're basing that off a Strava record. Their first 10k split according to Strava is 41:25. Their actual recorded 10k split is nearly a minute slower at 42:18. Their average pace after 10k was 6:48/mile

KSU · 24-10-2019 12:14pm

28064212 wrote: »

You're basing that off a Strava record. Their first 10k split according to Strava is 41:25. Their actual recorded 10k split is nearly a minute slower at 42:18. Their average pace after 10k was 6:48/mile

1st 2 miles you are dealing with congestion as well so a good bit of bobbing and weaving before the massses thinned out a bit. Pacers always tend to run more here in 1st few and still be on pace.

Also worth noting that the 3hr pacers tend to split between the group with a front and back marker and J tends to be at the front of the group most years.

squinn2912 · 24-10-2019 1:40pm

28064212 wrote: »

You're basing that off a Strava record. Their first 10k split according to Strava is 41:25. Their actual recorded 10k split is nearly a minute slower at 42:18. Their average pace after 10k was 6:48/mile

I know what you’re saying and there’s the extra ground to cover which needs to be considered. I just think the pacing is very uneven and they tend to “make up” ground very early on. Take the 10-11 mile. Fair climb there and the pace is 6:30 then 6:39 - it’s fast. When I was a bit greener going for sub3 people told me to go with the pacers they run even splits. They don’t or didn’t and trying to keep with them drained me and I lost out a couple of times. It could be an individual issue I have of course but I think it’s fair to say that matching pacers comes with a risk warning.
If you rely on strava/garmin to measure your pace then I feel you should stick to that on race day. I’d take into account the extra bit of distance you’ll need to cover but try not to force things early on.

healy1835 · 26-10-2019 9:06am

healy1835 wrote: »

I've a pair of these....decent storage for a pair of racing shorts. Worn them in a couple of marathons, no compaints.

https://www.ronhill.com/stride-cargo-racer-short

Got a pair for 20 quid at the Expo yesterday. Pure Running stand, they had a good few......

Marty Bird · 27-10-2019 3:26pm

Today was my first ever marathon and first ever pure running race. This was to be a one time only event for me as I like to do long distance triahlons.

I'm not really a fan of single events today has changed my opinion on this what a great day and great event. I stated at the start of the year I wanted to go sub3 in DCM 2019. With the training for triathlons I haven't had much time to train and work soley on my running.

I have been reading this thread for some time and got some good info on it.

So sub 3 was going to be a big ask.. fast forward to now and I'm delighted to say I done 2:58 I paced today perfectly.

Thank you all and I look forward to reading many more on this thread that hit their goal.

Tigerandahalf · 27-10-2019 3:29pm

2.58 for me. Very happy. Last 5 miles were a struggle but got there. Was great doing the last mile knowing I had it as I don't think I could have made a burst.

Congrats and commiserations to everyone else that has fallen on either side.

Forgot to thank the pacers, marshals, volunteers and all the great support along the way. It made for a great experience. Everything was well done.

Marty Bird · 27-10-2019 3:31pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

2.58 for me. Very happy. Last 5 miles were a struggle but got there. Was great doing the last mile knowing I had it as I don't think I could have made a burst.

Congrats and commiserations to everyone else that has fallen on either side.

I knew by UCD I had it with a little to spare so I just maintained what I had. It's a great feeling.

MY BAD · 27-10-2019 6:02pm

If I was to aim for Dublin/Frankfurt next year for my debut marathon, would a sub 3 be a realistic target having ran a 10k in 35:56 and a 5k in 17:06 in the past month? Last year I ran 3200km this year should be 3000km. I haven't ran a half since 2016

squinn2912 · 27-10-2019 6:11pm

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote: »

If I was to aim for Dublin/Frankfurt next year for my debut marathon, would a sub 3 be a realistic target having ran a 10k in 35:56 and a 5k in 17:06 in the past month? Last year I ran 3200km this year should be 3000km. I haven't ran a half since 2016

Without a shadow of a doubt those are fantastic times just get the long stuff going.

TheBazman · 27-10-2019 7:22pm

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote: »

If I was to aim for Dublin/Frankfurt next year for my debut marathon, would a sub 3 be a realistic target having ran a 10k in 35:56 and a 5k in 17:06 in the past month? Last year I ran 3200km this year should be 3000km. I haven't ran a half since 2016

I ran 2:59:49 today with an 18:59 5k and 38:30 10k PB. You would be well able. Total running ytd is 2500km for me.

Itziger · 27-10-2019 7:54pm

Mellow, you know the answer yourself. If you train properly it's yours for the taking but the 10k time in itself means little. I know a guy who did 3.27 today in Frankfurt in his 3rd or 4th marathon. He's a 35.xx 10k lad but just doesn't put in a structured training bloc.

Earlier in the year he went out at 2.44 pace or so on a hot day and on a hilly course here in Lux. Came home an hour north of target. I'll say one thing for him, he finishes. I don't know if he's got people advising him or whether he listens to advice or what.

Build up the base over the first six months of the year and get specific for the last 14/16 weeks.

OOnegative · 27-10-2019 8:23pm

Itziger wrote: »

Mellow, you know the answer yourself. If you train properly it's yours for the taking but the 10k time in itself means little. I know a guy who did 3.27 today in Frankfurt in his 3rd or 4th marathon. He's a 35.xx 10k lad but just doesn't put in a structured training bloc.

Earlier in the year he went out at 2.44 pace or so on a hot day and on a hilly course here in Lux. Came home an hour north of target. I'll say one thing for him, he finishes. I don't know if he's got people advising him or whether he listens to advice or what.

Build up the base over the first six months of the year and get specific for the last 14/16 weeks.

Echo that, know a lad running today, another 35.xx 10k man. Struggled to a 3.29 finish, unsure of his training but shows a fast 10k doesn’t guarantee a fast marathon.

Swashbuckler · 27-10-2019 9:47pm

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote:

If I was to aim for Dublin/Frankfurt next year for my debut marathon, would a sub 3 be a realistic target having ran a 10k in 35:56 and a 5k in 17:06 in the past month? Last year I ran 3200km this year should be 3000km. I haven't ran a half since 2016

In all honesty lad, with proper marathon training sub 3 would likely be your C goal (assuming you take well to distance training)

Swashbuckler · 27-10-2019 9:48pm

OOnegative wrote:

Echo that, know a lad running today, another 35.xx 10k man. Struggled to a 3.29 finish, unsure of his training but shows a fast 10k doesnâ€™t guarantee a fast marathon.

Anyone running a 35.xx 10k and ending up with 3.29 is doing something seriously wrong with their marathon training or nutrition or something. That's way way off

OOnegative · 27-10-2019 9:52pm

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Anyone running a 35.xx 10k and ending up with 3.29 is doing something seriously wrong with their marathon training or nutrition or something. That's way way off

As I said I can’t comment on his training in the build up, but I know for a fact he’s not a man who takes any kind of advice on board from others. Agree is way off what he should be doing.

MonkstownHoop · 27-10-2019 10:34pm

Managed a 2.58 despite my injury after the half, I'll have to work out why downhills ruin me so much but hills are fine, anyway I'll take it and enjoy the rest, well done everyone!

Lazare · 27-10-2019 10:47pm

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Anyone running a 35.xx 10k and ending up with 3.29 is doing something seriously wrong with their marathon training or nutrition or something. That's way way off

Saw a really good low 16s 5k athlete today coming home in around 3:20. Form looked good too.

Obv could be a myriad of reasons but maybe the whole petrol/diesel thing has merit.

Ranleth · 28-10-2019 8:32am

Amazing day yesterday. Everything was perfect. Really enjoyed the 1st 10 miles and kept a bit back from the 3hr pacers. Feel good at 24k so went ahead. Feet not so good at 32k but kept the pace going and managed a 2:56 time. Brilliant atmosphere but my thighs are in tatters. It was my 1st marathon so many thanks for the advice!

MY BAD · 28-10-2019 10:21am

Itziger wrote: »

Mellow, you know the answer yourself. If you train properly it's yours for the taking but the 10k time in itself means little. I know a guy who did 3.27 today in Frankfurt in his 3rd or 4th marathon. He's a 35.xx 10k lad but just doesn't put in a structured training bloc.

Earlier in the year he went out at 2.44 pace or so on a hot day and on a hilly course here in Lux. Came home an hour north of target. I'll say one thing for him, he finishes. I don't know if he's got people advising him or whether he listens to advice or what.

Build up the base over the first six months of the year and get specific for the last 14/16 weeks.

Thanks, I appreciate that. I know plenty of sub 17 5k runners who struggle with breaking 3, same goes for 10k lads of my ability. But like others have said I don't know what their training was like either. I'd say it would be extremely hard to crack 3 on your debut but it comes down to your training and approach. It's something to think about

davedanon · 28-10-2019 7:39pm

Wotcher all. Hope everyone is happy after yesterday. I was stewarding, for the first time, and after our stint we watched the race unfold from about 600m back from the finish. Not sure which side of 3 hours he was, but this is the only subforum I could think of where I could be sure you guys would know who I was referring to.

We were cheering everyone in when someone from my club went "well done, Krusty!", and I saw Krusty Clown, of this parish, dressed AS Krusty Clown, pass by.

I also spotted Duanington, FWIW. But he wasn't in costume.

Marty Bird · 28-10-2019 9:43pm

Lazare wrote: »

Saw a really good low 16s 5k athlete today coming home in around 3:20. Form looked good too.

Obv could be a myriad of reasons but maybe the whole petrol/diesel thing has merit.

.

Marty Bird · 28-10-2019 9:47pm

Ranleth wrote: »

Amazing day yesterday. Everything was perfect. Really enjoyed the 1st 10 miles and kept a bit back from the 3hr pacers. Feel good at 24k so went ahead. Feet not so good at 32k but kept the pace going and managed a 2:56 time. Brilliant atmosphere but my thighs are in tatters. It was my 1st marathon so many thanks for the advice!

Show off.. well done great time.

Marty Bird · 28-10-2019 9:50pm

What was everyone's thoughts on the pacers ? I thought they didn't do great 2 of them were way ahead I managed to reel one in. I came across a few in unhappy runners.

MonkstownHoop · 28-10-2019 9:57pm

Marty Bird wrote: »

What was everyone's thoughts on the pacers ? I thought they didn't do great 2 of them were way ahead I managed to reel one in. I came across a few in unhappy runners.

I was behind the last pacer until probably 18 miles, looking at the front Pacers splits though doesn't look like it was too fast

Marty Bird · 28-10-2019 10:01pm

MonkstownHoop wrote: »

I was behind the last pacer until probably 18 miles, looking at the front Pacers splits though doesn't look like it was too fast

Didn't seem like that yesterday. But thats just my experience. I settled in with the last pacer at 20 miles then went ahead of him just to be sure.

MonkstownHoop · 28-10-2019 10:11pm

Marty Bird wrote: »

Didn't seem like that yesterday. But thats just my experience. I settled in with the last pacer at 20 miles then went ahead of him just to be sure.

1st was front 3hr pacer 2nd is last (I think not 100% sure)

AuldManKing · 28-10-2019 11:00pm

Marty Bird wrote: »

What was everyone's thoughts on the pacers ? I thought they didn't do great 2 of them were way ahead I managed to reel one in. I came across a few in unhappy runners.

The pacers typically run within 60-90 secs of the time, but looking at the Strava of 1 of the 3 hour pacers, I see he ran a 6.30 / 6.25 / 6.31 upto the 10 mile mark - that does seem fast.

Last 6 miles was on ave a tad over 3 hour pace.

Edit: Sorry - just seen the above post with splits.

Marty Bird · 28-10-2019 11:20pm

AuldManKing wrote: »

The pacers typically run within 60-90 secs of the time, but looking at the Strava of 1 of the 3 hour pacers, I see he ran a 6.30 / 6.25 / 6.31 upto the 10 mile mark - that does seem fast.

Last 6 miles was on ave a tad over 3 hour pace.

Edit: Sorry - just seen the above post with splits.

Maybe with was just me they seemed to be just that little faster and a few others said it to me. I ending up just pacing off my watch. Which ended up well.

normanoffside · 28-10-2019 11:30pm

MonkstownHoop wrote: »

1st was front 3hr pacer 2nd is last (I think not 100% sure)

Those are the front 2.
There was another (3rd) 3 hour pacer who did a good job. He was 2 minutes behind the lead pacer at 40k but still finished 40 seconds under.

MonkstownHoop · 28-10-2019 11:43pm

normanoffside wrote: »

Those are the front 2.
There was another (3rd) 3 hour pacer who did a good job. He was 2 minutes behind the lead pacer at 40k but still finished 40 seconds under.

Apologies so, I was with the 3rd

Tommy Max · 29-10-2019 10:01am

Thanks to all the runners here for the advice and support. race went well. Did it in 2.56 and felt good but some hamstring cramps in last few miles which were a worry as energy wise I felt like pushing on.

We were not sticking with pacers. The front pacers appeared to us to be all over the shop from what we could gather. They flew past us up laurence hill and we had banked a good minute or more of a cushion at that stage. They were a good couple of hundred yards ahead of me at around mile 21/21. I passed the first 3 hour pacer around 3 miles to go so he was well ahead of the 3 hour. Even though I knew I was well on track, the sight of the 3 hour balloon ahead of me and getting further away was playing on my mind a bit but I said ignore it.

I imagine that pace might have wrecked some runners who were in borderline 3 hour shape.

Hope all went well for you guys anyway.

healy1835 · 29-10-2019 10:10am

Tommy Max wrote: »

Thanks to all the runners here for the advice and support. race went well. Did it in 2.56 and felt good but some hamstring cramps in last few miles which were a worry as energy wise I felt like pushing on.

We were not sticking with pacers. The front pacers appeared to us to be all over the shop from what we could gather. They flew past us up laurence hill and we had banked a good minute or more of a cushion at that stage. They were a good couple of hundred yards ahead of me at around mile 21/21. I passed the first 3 hour pacer around 3 miles to go so he was well ahead of the 3 hour. Even though I knew I was well on track, the sight of the 3 hour balloon ahead of me and getting further away was playing on my mind a bit but I said ignore it.

I imagine that pace might have wrecked some runners who were in borderline 3 hour shape.

Hope all went well for you guys anyway.

Yep, I had my own moment of doubt due to that pacer too

I'd love to know if he was telling people as they went along that his plan was to bank so much time, you'd hope so anyway.

kerrylad1 · 29-10-2019 11:49am

healy1835 wrote: »

Yep, I had my own moment of doubt due to that pacer too I'd love to know if he was telling people as they went along that his plan was to bank so much time, you'd hope so anyway.

I decided during mile 2,to not try and stay with them,glanced at the watch it was showing 6:30ish.
Bye 10K they were easily a half mile up ahead of me.I would have ended up walking if I ploughed on with them.
Got the sub 3 again.Happy enough,training was all over the shop.
10K 43:14
Halfway 1:30:03
40K 2:50:41
26.40 2:59:31
Had to do a 6:29 last mile,and 5:52 pace for last bit,to be certain of the sub 3

Cona · 29-10-2019 12:26pm

Congrats to anyone that clocked the big sub 3 on Sunday. In the spirit of the thread, would you mind giving a summary of your training over the last 12 weeks or so...what you found worked and what you might change?

omicron · 29-10-2019 2:16pm

normanoffside wrote: »

Those are the front 2.
There was another (3rd) 3 hour pacer who did a good job. He was 2 minutes behind the lead pacer at 40k but still finished 40 seconds under.

I was following the first pacer and lost him turning on to merrion road, my last 2 miles were 7.14 and 7.05 and I still passed him out again just after the RDS so he must have been on for sub 2.57 until the last mile or so. That said it was obvious enough from castleknock that he would be going faster.

Marty Bird · 29-10-2019 2:33pm

Cona wrote: »

Congrats to anyone that clocked the big sub 3 on Sunday. In the spirit of the thread, would you mind giving a summary of your training over the last 12 weeks or so...what you found worked and what you might change?

I started my training on the for this on tuesday 3rd Sept I used the P&D plan and I used the last 8 weeks of the 88km to 113km per week plan. The first week of the plan with the increased mileage really knocked me and my legs were wrecked from it so I took a week off.

When I came back I adjusted some of the sessions by a couple of kms shorter after another 2 weeks into the plan legs felt so much better I continued on with all the distances on the plan right up to race day.

Now I had been training for triathlons already throughout the year so I would have built up the endurance over the year.

The marathon training was far from ideal I would have loved another 4 weeks to be more confident going into the race that I could hit the numbers. As it out turns it went well on the day and I was delighted to get it.

I found the days when you would have had VO2 max session it would be 14km with 6x600 meters at 5k race pace. I found these sessions were very beneficial to me if that makes sense.

The Sub 3 Support Thread

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