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The Sub 3 Support Thread

--amadeus--

Not sure if this is a viable thread or not....

There tends to be a lot of support for newbies and improver's (the two mentored DCM threads, the Tri Novice thread for example) but less of a community vibe as you move up the pace. I know a lot of us read each others logs but I'll read 10 for every one I comment in and I'm sure others are the same.

And I know that there are a few of us aiming at sub 3 this autumn. I'm taking a crack at it in Amsterdam, Village Runner and Peckham in Berlin, SunGod in Dublin. I'm sure SloggerJogger is going to take another pop at it as well having come so close. And of course we have a lot of runners who have already gone sub 3 (and faster). And the Sub 3 thread on RunnersWorld is very busy and popular.

So here we go - if it works it works, if it sinks it sinks!

And to start - I'm a little concerned about my weekly mileage. This week is pretty poor (I'll be lucky to get mid 30s) and I've been doing 40s for the last couple of weeks with the intention of doing 6 - 8 weeks of 50 - 60 mpw as teh basis of my attempt.

Do you think that's enough? What sort of mileage are you all doing and planning?

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Tommy Max

How many gels and when did you take them any experienced sub 3ers?

Kissy Lips

squinn2912 wrote: »

They’ll cut the pace right down from 22 which begs the question why crucify people early on. Might not be the most popular thing to say on here but it’s my opinion

Does 'cut the pace right down' mean going faster or slower? I can read it both ways.

squinn2912

Kissy Lips wrote: »

Does 'cut the pace right down' mean going faster or slower? I can read it both ways.

Slower. The point I made is that I feel they go out too fast early on

kerrylad1

Tommy Max wrote: »

How many gels and when did you take them any experienced sub 3ers?

1 at the start,then miles 5,10,15,20and mile 23.So 6 total.

squinn2912

kerrylad1 wrote: »

1 at the start,then miles 5,10,15,20and mile 23.So 6 total.

Holy God you’d be like a human slush puppy! I tried one at the start in Belfast and had stomach cramps for 6 miles. Usually take 4;6, 10, 15 and 18. If there’s another one going spare on the course I might take it too

OOnegative

kerrylad1 wrote: »

1 at the start,then miles 5,10,15,20and mile 23.So 6 total.

You racing Sunday J?

muloc

squinn2912 wrote: »

Slower. The point I made is that I feel they go out too fast early on

Anyone know the splits of the 3 hour pacers from last year?

Kissy Lips

muloc wrote: »

Anyone know the splits of the 3 hour pacers from last year?

good question!!

OOnegative

muloc wrote: »

Anyone know the splits of the 3 hour pacers from last year?

One of the 3hr pacers.

28064212

muloc wrote: »

Anyone know the splits of the 3 hour pacers from last year?

https://www.tdleventservices.co.uk/event-results/individual?event=3073&racenumber=201
https://www.tdleventservices.co.uk/event-results/individual?event=3073&racenumber=204
A little fast in the first half, but certainly not 2:54 pace

Tipptatlers

https://www.strava.com/activities/1932075119

Strava of 3 hour pacer

kerrylad1

OOnegative wrote: »

You racing Sunday J?

Yes B.Really looking forward it.Nothing in training,indicates that I have a p.b in me.But I will go for it anyway.If I blow up "AGAIN",so be it.Fantastic running again in Amsterdam.Mite try ur carbo loading routine,of 4 beers this Saturday evening.ðŸ˜Š

OOnegative

kerrylad1 wrote: »

Yes B.Really looking forward it.Nothing in training,indicates that I have a p.b in me.But I will go for it anyway.If I blow up "AGAIN",so be it.Fantastic running again in Amsterdam.Mite try ur carbo loading routine,of 4 beers this Saturday evening.ðŸ˜Š

Best of luck with it, go for it is right nothing to lose. My carbo loading routine worked fine for me!! Have u on the tracker.

squinn2912

Tipptatlers wrote: »

https://www.strava.com/activities/1932075119

Strava of 3 hour pacer

6:50 pace takes you in at sub3 but 7 of the first 11 miles are quicker than 6:40 pace one mile at 6:30. Any coach would not tell their athlete to pace 20 seconds quick early on in the race it’s madness

28064212

squinn2912 wrote: »

6:50 pace takes you in at sub3 but 7 of the first 11 miles are quicker than 6:40 pace one mile at 6:30. Any coach would not tell their athlete to pace 20 seconds quick early on in the race it’s madness

You're basing that off a Strava record. Their first 10k split according to Strava is 41:25. Their actual recorded 10k split is nearly a minute slower at 42:18. Their average pace after 10k was 6:48/mile

KSU

28064212 wrote: »

You're basing that off a Strava record. Their first 10k split according to Strava is 41:25. Their actual recorded 10k split is nearly a minute slower at 42:18. Their average pace after 10k was 6:48/mile

1st 2 miles you are dealing with congestion as well so a good bit of bobbing and weaving before the massses thinned out a bit. Pacers always tend to run more here in 1st few and still be on pace.

Also worth noting that the 3hr pacers tend to split between the group with a front and back marker and J tends to be at the front of the group most years.

squinn2912

28064212 wrote: »

You're basing that off a Strava record. Their first 10k split according to Strava is 41:25. Their actual recorded 10k split is nearly a minute slower at 42:18. Their average pace after 10k was 6:48/mile

I know what you’re saying and there’s the extra ground to cover which needs to be considered. I just think the pacing is very uneven and they tend to “make up” ground very early on. Take the 10-11 mile. Fair climb there and the pace is 6:30 then 6:39 - it’s fast. When I was a bit greener going for sub3 people told me to go with the pacers they run even splits. They don’t or didn’t and trying to keep with them drained me and I lost out a couple of times. It could be an individual issue I have of course but I think it’s fair to say that matching pacers comes with a risk warning.
If you rely on strava/garmin to measure your pace then I feel you should stick to that on race day. I’d take into account the extra bit of distance you’ll need to cover but try not to force things early on.

healy1835

healy1835 wrote: »

I've a pair of these....decent storage for a pair of racing shorts. Worn them in a couple of marathons, no compaints.

https://www.ronhill.com/stride-cargo-racer-short

Got a pair for 20 quid at the Expo yesterday. Pure Running stand, they had a good few......

Marty Bird

Today was my first ever marathon and first ever pure running race. This was to be a one time only event for me as I like to do long distance triahlons.

I'm not really a fan of single events today has changed my opinion on this what a great day and great event. I stated at the start of the year I wanted to go sub3 in DCM 2019. With the training for triathlons I haven't had much time to train and work soley on my running.

I have been reading this thread for some time and got some good info on it.

So sub 3 was going to be a big ask.. fast forward to now and I'm delighted to say I done 2:58 I paced today perfectly.

Thank you all and I look forward to reading many more on this thread that hit their goal.

Tigerandahalf

2.58 for me. Very happy. Last 5 miles were a struggle but got there. Was great doing the last mile knowing I had it as I don't think I could have made a burst.

Congrats and commiserations to everyone else that has fallen on either side.

Forgot to thank the pacers, marshals, volunteers and all the great support along the way. It made for a great experience. Everything was well done.

Marty Bird

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

2.58 for me. Very happy. Last 5 miles were a struggle but got there. Was great doing the last mile knowing I had it as I don't think I could have made a burst.

Congrats and commiserations to everyone else that has fallen on either side.

I knew by UCD I had it with a little to spare so I just maintained what I had. It's a great feeling.

MY BAD

If I was to aim for Dublin/Frankfurt next year for my debut marathon, would a sub 3 be a realistic target having ran a 10k in 35:56 and a 5k in 17:06 in the past month? Last year I ran 3200km this year should be 3000km. I haven't ran a half since 2016

squinn2912

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote: »

If I was to aim for Dublin/Frankfurt next year for my debut marathon, would a sub 3 be a realistic target having ran a 10k in 35:56 and a 5k in 17:06 in the past month? Last year I ran 3200km this year should be 3000km. I haven't ran a half since 2016

Without a shadow of a doubt those are fantastic times just get the long stuff going.

TheBazman

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote: »

If I was to aim for Dublin/Frankfurt next year for my debut marathon, would a sub 3 be a realistic target having ran a 10k in 35:56 and a 5k in 17:06 in the past month? Last year I ran 3200km this year should be 3000km. I haven't ran a half since 2016

I ran 2:59:49 today with an 18:59 5k and 38:30 10k PB. You would be well able. Total running ytd is 2500km for me.

Itziger

Mellow, you know the answer yourself. If you train properly it's yours for the taking but the 10k time in itself means little. I know a guy who did 3.27 today in Frankfurt in his 3rd or 4th marathon. He's a 35.xx 10k lad but just doesn't put in a structured training bloc.

Earlier in the year he went out at 2.44 pace or so on a hot day and on a hilly course here in Lux. Came home an hour north of target. I'll say one thing for him, he finishes. I don't know if he's got people advising him or whether he listens to advice or what.

Build up the base over the first six months of the year and get specific for the last 14/16 weeks.

OOnegative

Itziger wrote: »

Mellow, you know the answer yourself. If you train properly it's yours for the taking but the 10k time in itself means little. I know a guy who did 3.27 today in Frankfurt in his 3rd or 4th marathon. He's a 35.xx 10k lad but just doesn't put in a structured training bloc.

Earlier in the year he went out at 2.44 pace or so on a hot day and on a hilly course here in Lux. Came home an hour north of target. I'll say one thing for him, he finishes. I don't know if he's got people advising him or whether he listens to advice or what.

Build up the base over the first six months of the year and get specific for the last 14/16 weeks.

Echo that, know a lad running today, another 35.xx 10k man. Struggled to a 3.29 finish, unsure of his training but shows a fast 10k doesn’t guarantee a fast marathon.

Swashbuckler

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote:

If I was to aim for Dublin/Frankfurt next year for my debut marathon, would a sub 3 be a realistic target having ran a 10k in 35:56 and a 5k in 17:06 in the past month? Last year I ran 3200km this year should be 3000km. I haven't ran a half since 2016

In all honesty lad, with proper marathon training sub 3 would likely be your C goal (assuming you take well to distance training)

Swashbuckler

OOnegative wrote:

Echo that, know a lad running today, another 35.xx 10k man. Struggled to a 3.29 finish, unsure of his training but shows a fast 10k doesnâ€™t guarantee a fast marathon.

Anyone running a 35.xx 10k and ending up with 3.29 is doing something seriously wrong with their marathon training or nutrition or something. That's way way off

OOnegative

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Anyone running a 35.xx 10k and ending up with 3.29 is doing something seriously wrong with their marathon training or nutrition or something. That's way way off

As I said I can’t comment on his training in the build up, but I know for a fact he’s not a man who takes any kind of advice on board from others. Agree is way off what he should be doing.

MonkstownHoop

Managed a 2.58 despite my injury after the half, I'll have to work out why downhills ruin me so much but hills are fine, anyway I'll take it and enjoy the rest, well done everyone!