Sam Bennett - no same day spoilers

cunavalos · 27-08-2019 05:17PM

If he really wants a red jersey. Join Sunweb

If we are talking about the points classification it will be very difficult. The Vuelta unlike the Tour offers the same points for a Stage win regardless of terrain. In contrast the Tour offers double points for Sprint or Flat stages meaning by being consistent in all the flat stages gives you an upper hand over the GC guys.

With a maximum of 3 sprint stages left it may be difficult for Sam to gain enough points to stay ahead of a GC guy unless the GC guys share out victories amongst each other or we have lots of random breakaway winners.
For example in 2017 Trentin won four stages, was second once and had another top 10 but still lost out to Froome in the points classification.

Intermediate sprints are only worth an additional 4 points and tend to get mopped up by the breakaway or are too close to the Stage finish to allow for a sprinter to compete for both the Intermediate Sprint and the Stage Win.

happytramp · 27-08-2019 05:20PM

Ha ha yeah, getting my Jersey colours mixed up.

gman2k · 28-08-2019 06:41AM

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/vuelta-a-espana/sam-bennett-battle-free-bora-hansgrohe-according-sources-435755

Miklos · 28-08-2019 12:46PM

I can't help but feel that's very poor on Bora's part, they don't want to give him the opportunities he deserves and they don't want to allow him to get them elsewhere.

TheBlaaMan · 28-08-2019 07:31PM

gman2k wrote: »

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/vuelta-a-espana/sam-bennett-battle-free-bora-hansgrohe-according-sources-435755

That article sounds odd. He is supposed to have signed an offer letter in May, just before the Giro that he wasnt chosen for and 4 months after he learned that fact? If he did, it must have been without any input from his advisors. A very strange thing to have done.

martyc5674 · 28-08-2019 09:01PM

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

That article sounds odd. He is supposed to have signed an offer letter in May, just before the Giro that he wasnt chosen for and 4 months after he learned that fact? If he did, it must have been without any input from his advisors. A very strange thing to have done.

I wonder are the leg pains he’s feeling his way out of this GT early. Three early sprint stages to shine, then 2 fingers to Bora.

gman2k · 07-09-2019 03:31PM

Another GT stage win in the bag!

Keeks · 17-09-2019 09:14AM

So what is the latest with Sam...is he staying or going?

Finnrocco · 17-09-2019 09:34AM

Sam got 380.5 points for slogging around Spain for three weeks, Greg Van Aver got 825 points last weekend in Canada.

Viviani got 700 for London & Hamburg.

The vagaries of the UCI points system.

Mefistofelino · 17-09-2019 10:11AM

Finnrocco wrote: »

Sam got 380.5 points for slogging around Spain for three weeks, Greg Van Aver got 825 points last weekend in Canada.

Viviani got 700 for London & Hamburg.

The vagaries of the UCI points system.

Unfair, but it's not like this is a surprise to the teams. If they are looking to maximise points from the least amount of racing, they know what they need to do.

Slightly (but not really) O/T - I remember when the current points system was being rolled out. David Harmon was co-commentating with Kelly and getting really wound up about the unfairness of the system, saying that you'd get the same amount of points for Paris Nice as you would for Paris Roubaix.

"It's unfair Sean, isn't it?"
"Wouldn't have bothered me much"
"Why?
"I'd have won them both"

dastardly00 · 17-09-2019 11:32AM

Finnrocco wrote: »

Sam got 380.5 points for slogging around Spain for three weeks, Greg Van Aver got 825 points last weekend in Canada.

Viviani got 700 for London & Hamburg.

The vagaries of the UCI points system.

I remember Sam getting bucket loads of points for his Tour of Turkey stage wins in the last few years and the competition there would have been below average

c.p.w.g.w · 17-09-2019 06:13PM

dastardly00 wrote: »

I remember Sam getting bucket loads of points for his Tour of Turkey stage wins in the last few years and the competition there would have been below average

That's mad, he won 2 stages and finished 2nd on 4 stages

harringtonp · 17-09-2019 06:55PM

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

That's mad, he won 2 stages and finished 2nd on 4 stages

Does make the mind boggle alright

Finnrocco · 19-09-2019 09:23AM

dastardly00 wrote: »

I remember Sam getting bucket loads of points for his Tour of Turkey stage wins in the last few years and the competition there would have been below average

This year for 2 stage wins, 2nd on 1 and 3rd on 2, plus leading GC for a few days, plus green jersey he got 127 points!

250 for 2nd in London.

Bauhaus got 125 there the other day for a race in Italy.

RobFowl · 19-09-2019 06:18PM

The UCI points system is all over the place, they changed it back in the days of Cav at his best when he won bucket loads of stages.
Was an attempt to re-balance the playing field.
Seems poor now and you only need to look at the top 50 in the rankings and some of the surprising names there to work out it needs revision.
That said the points system will never be perfect.

Eamonnator · 19-09-2019 07:43PM

UCI rankings.

https://www.procyclingstats.com/rankings.php

cunavalos · 21-09-2019 02:22PM

According to a Belgian newspaper, the UCI have determined that Sam is still under contract to Bora for 2020 so either he stays or Sam and/or new team will have to buy out his contract. I expect this to drag on for a couple of weeks yet.
Article requires registration and translation
https://m.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20190921_04620440?articlehash=5EFE192332435D655C8071B4C2B0210E43265C51431A6741137549262345C2798E9E4A52555AE0BFF9C5ED6247291D5EEBC989B4ED0D5E8FEFB016C75B688A02

RobFowl · 21-09-2019 02:57PM

cunavalos wrote: »

According to a Belgian newspaper, the UCI have determined that Sam is still under contract to Bora for 2020 so either he stays or Sam and/or new team will have to buy out his contract. I expect this to drag on for a couple of weeks yet.
Article requires registration and translation
https://m.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20190921_04620440?articlehash=5EFE192332435D655C8071B4C2B0210E43265C51431A6741137549262345C2798E9E4A52555AE0BFF9C5ED6247291D5EEBC989B4ED0D5E8FEFB016C75B688A02

Agent ****ed up badly there......

gman2k · 21-09-2019 05:14PM

Could they just not do the decent thing and let him go, like when Sunweb realised Tom Dumoulin was not happy.

TheBlaaMan · 21-09-2019 05:50PM

cunavalos wrote: »

According to a Belgian newspaper, the UCI have determined that Sam is still under contract to Bora for 2020 so either he stays or Sam and/or new team will have to buy out his contract. I expect this to drag on for a couple of weeks yet.
Article requires registration and translation
https://m.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20190921_04620440?articlehash=5EFE192332435D655C8071B4C2B0210E43265C51431A6741137549262345C2798E9E4A52555AE0BFF9C5ED6247291D5EEBC989B4ED0D5E8FEFB016C75B688A02

Yeah it's a complete bucket of piss.....but who are the UCI to make a judgement on a matter of employment contract law and McQuaid will take it to a higher authority. I suspect a deal will be done.
One can only hope that now Bora have 'won' round 1, they will see the sense in accommodating Sam in a move

godtabh · 28-09-2019 08:45AM

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/sam-bennett-im-trying-my-best-to-get-out-of-bora-i-need-a-change/

Sam Bennett has made his strongest comments yet about the need for a change of team, but also effectively confirmed it is not a straightforward issue.

Bennett was among a number of Irish riders who spoke to the media in Yorkshire yesterday in a press conference organised by Cycling Ireland before the weekend World Championships road races.

The event was a welcome new development, suggesting a more open and progressive approach by the federation.

In recent months Bennett has been the consummate professional about his team status. The story, at least parts of it, are well known at this stage.

He has excelled at Bora-hansgrohe; the team that gave him his big break and has helped make him the rider he is today.

But it is clear he has outgrown the environment; his star is simply too big now to see Pascal Ackermann’s inclusion in the Giro team and Peter Sagan’s selection for the Tour de France cost the Irishman a start in both races.

Bennett said earlier this year he did not want to be in a team where he was stuck behind other riders.

At the same time, he said he accepted the team had business decisions to make and he was resolute in his commitment to do as well as he could for the team in the races he was selected for this year.

Since speaking in those terms earlier this year he has banged out win after win and is the most prolific sprinter in pro cycling this year; 13 wins and counting.

In July he seemed close to confirming a transfer to Deceuninck-QuickStep; boss of the Belgian WorldTour outfit Patrick Lefevere saying he believed he had an agreement with the rider.

However, since then it has emerged Bora-hansgrohe has been fighting to keep the Irish rider and trying to keep him to an agreement to stay on that they claim he made to them.

Last month reports suggested a wrangle between Bennett and the team was going to a UCI arbitration process.

It centres on the team claiming Bennett tentatively agreed in May to remain with the team beyond the expiry of his current contract at the end of this year.

Bennett did not speak in specific terms about any of those issues at the media event yesterday.

However, he suggest the matter of leaving Bora-hansgrohe had become something that he had been working to achieve, rather than simply being free to go elsewhere.

“I’m trying my best to get out of Bora. I should have something today or tomorrow; I’m hoping,” he said yesterday.

“And hopefully I should have a team by next week. But the thing is, this has been going on three months and it’s always been ‘next week, next week’.

“So it should be… but I’m trying my best to get out, I need a change.”

He said the whole issue over his next contract had been “hard on the brain” when he rode La Vuelta, where he won two stages.

What happened in May that he indicated he'd stay? Was that to save his Vuleta ride?

buffalo · 28-09-2019 01:25PM

Nothing about contracts, but Bennett's preview of the race: https://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/cycling/bennett-worlds-is-going-to-be-an-elimination-race-one-for-classics-men-38542131.html

Macy0161 · 28-09-2019 07:56PM

godtabh wrote: »

What happened in May that he indicated he'd stay? Was that to save his Vuleta ride?

That's what I've heard suggested, and that this is probably why it won't stand up if it gets to a real court. Seems like "Say you'll stay or no starts". tbh, whatever the outcome, it's really put me off Bora as a team (when they were one of my favourites!)

godtabh · 28-09-2019 07:58PM

Macy0161 wrote: »

That's what I've heard suggested, and that this is probably why it won't stand up if it gets to a real court. Seems like "Say you'll stay or no starts". tbh, whatever the outcome, it's really put me off Bora as a team (when they were one of my favourites!)

Thats what it looks like. Bora seemed a great place to be but there is a different vibe now

jimbobaloobob · 28-09-2019 08:33PM

And sure going forward into next year that's a horrible place for Sams head to be in.
Would be great if Dennis O Brien bought him out out of any contract fees like the way he pumped money into the Irish soccer managers job few years back. There's a can of works rolling across the floor

Finnrocco · 07-10-2019 11:04AM

Is Sam doing any races at all?

He's not listed for any upcoming races - Binche, Paris-Bourges, Paris- Tours - all would suit him.

Although not sure if Bora are entered for any of them.

Is he not getting his game because he is leaving?

They will hardly make him ride Lombardy?

07-10-2019 11:26AM

Theres a few Bora aren't down to start at, the others seem to be for Majka or non outright sprinters. Ackermann is down for the final WT race of the year in China.

on_the_nickel · 07-10-2019 01:08PM

Finnrocco wrote: »

Is Sam doing any races at all?

He's not listed for any upcoming races - Binche, Paris-Bourges, Paris- Tours - all would suit him.

Although not sure if Bora are entered for any of them.

Is he not getting his game because he is leaving?

They will hardly make him ride Lombardy?

He was on our flight coming back from the Worlds last Monday and he said that it was his last race.

CrowdedHouse · 23-10-2019 02:26PM

Bit on cyclingnews

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/patrick-lefevere-bora-offered-to-trade-sam-bennett-for-alvaro-hodeg/

23-10-2019 03:07PM

There was a piece yesterday on Cyclingnews speculating that Segan will be at the unveiling of the 2020 Giro route tomorrow. So he rides that and maybe give Sam a ride at the tour? Can't see it happening so that would likely rule Sam out of both the Giro and Tour if he has to stay put at Bora

Sam Bennett - no same day spoilers

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