Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

One year on from Ms Cash's impassioned speech

Options
1…1314161819…23

Comments

  • Options
    #452
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Kelsey Petite Buggy wrote: »
    Traveller culture does irreparable harm to children, raising them in an environment filled with violence and crime, depriving them of a proper education, and turning girls into baby factories while they are still in their teens.

    Margaret Cash was taken out of school at age 12. She was married at 15, when other girls her age were doing their Junior Cert. By age 28, she was the mother of seven children, with 39 criminal convictions and her husband in prison. It's absolutely shameful to see this passing for "culture" in twenty-first-century Ireland.

    And yet here you are, day after day, defending Travellers on Boards. You don't seem to see how making endless excuses for Travellers and defending their "culture" only enables the ongoing neglect and abuse of children.

    I don't see how my agreeing that the travelling community has major social problems like weak educational attainment, mental health problems, domestic abuse, sexism and anti-social behaviour including serious criminality, is defending travellers?

    Can you demonstrate where I have defended travellers in this thread? I have simply stopped short of tarring every traveller with the one brush, and pointed out some objective facts, such as what does or does not constitute cruelty against a horse.

    You and others are too hysterical to be capable of distinguishing between defending travellers and simply observing facts in a fairly disinterested way. You are so het up about this woman that you perceive every slight dissent as an attack on your bizarre views.


  • Options
    #453
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    I don't see how my agreeing that the travelling community has major social problems like weak educational attainment, mental health problems, domestic abuse, sexism and anti-social behaviour including serious criminality, is defending travellers?

    You do appear to be excusing their behaviour by blaming all the stuff you listed above.

    The travelling community are doing absolutely nothing to change the negative aspects of their culture and as long as people make excuses for them, things will remain as they are. And I don't think that is acceptable.


  • Options
    #454
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    PostWoke wrote: »
    ABSOLUTE NONSENSE. Kids from travelling communities or low economic status go to the same primary and secondary level education as the rest, but disrupt and bully others instead of learning, which they push back hard against. No homework done, most times they haven't even a pencil in their bag. Come off it now. Did you even go through the Irish educational system?
    Is it your contention that family and home life are not relevant to personality development and a child's future prospects?

    Because that seems to be the major assumption in this thread. It seems to me that we can either try to rationally discuss, on a macro level, the factors that are likely to cause all of the known social problems in the traveller community, ideally with resort to some evidence, or we can just continue to bleat and bitch about one woman's Facebook page.

    Is anyone here even interested in really discussing this problem seriously, or are we just hear for some kind of chat you can easily get down the hairdresser's?


  • Options
    #455
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    Is it your contention that family and home life are not relevant to personality development and a child's future prospects?

    Because that seems to be the major assumption in this thread. It seems to me that we can either try to rationally discuss, on a macro level, the factors that are likely to cause all of the known social problems in the traveller community, ideally with resort to some evidence, or we can just continue to bleat and bitch about one woman's Facebook page.

    Is anyone here even interested in really discussing this problem seriously, or are we just hear for some kind of chat you can easily get down the hairdresser's?

    Ok. I'll engage. I've a few minutes to kill before lunchtime.

    What would you do to change the negative aspects of traveller culture?


  • Options
    #456
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    You do appear to be excusing their behaviour by blaming all the stuff you listed above.
    What do you mean "blaming all the stuff you listed". That was a list of social problems in the traveller community. The fact that you interpreted that as a defence of travellers makes me question if a reasonable exchange of views is possible, because it seems likely that people aren't even reading posts at this stage.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #457
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Ok. I'll engage. I've a few minutes to kill before lunchtime.

    What would you do to change the negative aspects of traveller culture?

    Engage children in specific educational programmes at a young age, and diversion programmes (such as working with horses and doing associated apprenticeships) later in their education.

    At present, the educational system is passively allowing traveller children to drift, and a new focus has to be more prescriptive, whether that be by mandating participation for children with specific socio economic problems in their family background, or financial incentives.


  • Options
    #458
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    What do you mean "blaming all the stuff you listed". That was a list of social problems in the traveller community. The fact that you interpreted that as a defence of travellers makes me question if a reasonable exchange of views is possible, because it seems likely that people aren't even reading posts at this stage.

    Social problems that travellers have absolutely no interest in addressing.

    Now who isn't reading what was written. I said you appeared to be excusing their behaviour, I didn't say you were defending them.


  • Options
    #459
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Now who isn't reading what was written. I said you appeared to be excusing their behaviour, I didn't say you were defending them.

    Right. At this point I can't engage with you anymore. There is no reasonable way that mentioning serious criminality, for example, can be interpreted as excusing traveller behaviour.

    We all have limited time, most of us are presumably in work, and theres just no point wasting time replying to you any further.


  • Options
    #460
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    Engage children in specific educational programmes at a young age, and diversion programmes (such as working with horses and doing associated apprenticeships) later in their education.

    At present, the educational system is passively allowing traveller children to drift, and a new focus has to be more prescriptive, whether that be by mandating participation for children with specific socio economic problems in their family background, or financial incentives.

    And how do you engage the children in specific educational programmes? You are going to have to tackle the parents to allow them to participate. And the parents don't want them to participate.

    There needs to be a big stick approach taken to the behaviour of traveller parents. They need to be forced to send their children to school.

    Financial incentives don't work with them. I've seen financial incentives at work first hand. They send the kids to school, get the few bob, and then let the kids drop out.


  • Options
    #461
    Ruraldweller56
    Registered Users Posts: 938 ✭✭✭Ruraldweller56


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    And how do you engage the children in specific educational programmes? You are going to have to tackle the parents to allow them to participate. And the parents don't want them to participate.

    There needs to be a big stick approach taken to the behaviour of traveller parents. They need to be forced to send their children to school.

    Financial incentives don't work with them. I've seen financial incentives at work first hand. They send the kids to school, get the few bob, and then let the kids drop out.

    We all need a to sit down and decide what we want.

    They don't want integrate. Fair enough. Our system isn't perfect. They don't want to partake, so be it.

    A parallel society. Something like the Amish in the USA. They keep to themselves and pay for their own ****.

    No more handouts.

    I don't see why they should be able to have it both ways.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #462
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    Engage children in specific educational programmes at a young age, and diversion programmes (such as working with horses and doing associated apprenticeships) later in their education.

    At present, the educational system is passively allowing traveller children to drift, and a new focus has to be more prescriptive, whether that be by mandating participation for children with specific socio economic problems in their family background, or financial incentives.

    I’m wondering do you even know any Travellers at this stage.
    The vast majority of Travellers see their children’s attendance at school as a sort of a hurdle to be dealt with. Like having to have car insurance and tax. And the new regulations about owning horses.
    In particular they resent every single cent of expense that comes from having to send the children to school. Uniforms books lunch money, school transport...every thing has to be paid for by the state via BTSCFA, School Transport Grant, Medical Card entitlement to free school books and now the hot lunch scheme.
    This is on top of sometimes in excess of €13000 per year in child benefit alone.
    And still they don’t want them to go. I don’t know what else you want the state to do. Maybe you can explain?


  • Options
    #463
    PostWoke
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 559 ✭✭✭PostWoke


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    Is it your contention that family and home life are not relevant to personality development and a child's future prospects?

    What are you talking about? My argument is THE POLAR OPPOSITE, that home life is dictating their behaviour and it doesn't matter how progressive their schooling is in the end.

    Is this a troll account, seriously?


  • Options
    #464
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    Can you demonstrate where I have defended travellers in this thread? I have simply stopped short of tarring every traveller with the one brush, and pointed out some objective facts, such as what does or does not constitute cruelty against a horse.

    Every time anyone criticizes a Traveller, you use numerous diversionary tactics to deflect responsibility away from the individual in question — even engaging in a protracted, tortuous back-and-forth over what does and does not constitute cruelty to animals. If Margaret Cash were keeping a lion and three tigers in her back garden, I'm sure you'd find some way to excuse her of any wrongdoing.
    You and others are too hysterical to be capable of distinguishing between defending travellers and simply observing facts in a fairly disinterested way. You are so het up about this woman that you perceive any slight dissent as some kind of PC defence of everything to do with Cash. In short, you're unable to engage rationally, such is your emotional investment in hating this stranger.

    I'm not "hysterical" and I don't "hate" Margaret Cash — but I'm aware that your smug stance of being the only one on the thread capable of rational engagement, while characterizing everyone else as motivated by hysteria and personal animus, is both condescending and disingenuous. In reality, you're just employing Robert J. Stone Jr.'s fabled approach of "Admit nothing, deny everything, launch counterattack."


  • Options
    #465
    Ruraldweller56
    Registered Users Posts: 938 ✭✭✭Ruraldweller56


    Kelsey Petite Buggy wrote: »
    Every time anyone criticizes a Traveller, you use numerous diversionary tactics to deflect responsibility away from the individual in question — even engaging in a protracted, tortuous back-and-forth over what does and does not constitute cruelty to animals. If Margaret Cash were keeping a lion and three tigers in her back garden, I'm sure you'd find some way to excuse her of any wrongdoing.



    I'm not "hysterical" and I don't "hate" Margaret Cash — but I'm aware that your smug stance of being the only one on the thread capable of rational engagement, while characterizing everyone else as motivated by hysteria and personal animus, is both condescending and disingenuous. In reality, you're just employing Robert J. Stone Jr.'s fabled approach of "Admit nothing, deny everything, launch counterattack."

    The question I have is why. What are they hoping to gain? By defending the indefensible?

    I've came across my share of extreme libs/lefties but this is extreme by anyone's standards.


  • Options
    #466
    PostWoke
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 559 ✭✭✭PostWoke


    Ruraldweller56 wrote: »
    The question I have is why. What are they hoping to gain? By defending the indefensible?

    I've came across my share of extreme libs/lefties but this is extreme by anyone's standards.

    It makes them look good. That's about it. We all acknowledge I would assume, that we'd rather not be talking about this, that there is an ugliness to speaking against our fellow man. So they choose the very easy road, it makes them look great and it comes with a free high-horse. :pac:


  • Options
    #467
    Ruraldweller56
    Registered Users Posts: 938 ✭✭✭Ruraldweller56


    PostWoke wrote: »
    It makes them look good. That's about it. We all acknowledge I would assume, that we'd rather not be talking about this, that there is an ugliness to speaking against our fellow man. So they choose the very easy road, it makes them look great and it comes with a free high-horse. :pac:

    Ya I know. But it just seems so disingenuous.


  • Options
    #468
    PostWoke
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 559 ✭✭✭PostWoke


    Ruraldweller56 wrote: »
    Ya I know. But it just seems so disingenuous.

    Because it is. The people in question all have empty 'guest' bedrooms in their homes they could easily give over to a homeless person with HAP so they could get back on their feet.

    But those bedrooms will stay empty.


  • Options
    #469
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    If I'd have a spare bedroom, I'd turn it into a man cave..... I'm not living with strangers....


  • Options
    #470
    PostWoke
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 559 ✭✭✭PostWoke


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    If I'd have a spare bedroom, I'd turn it into a man cave..... I'm not living with strangers....

    Well, strangers might not want to live with you either :pac:

    A large percentage of housing these days is house shares, even owner occupied house shares. It's awkward but such is the housing market right now.


  • Options
    #471
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,555 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    tuxy wrote: »

    446079c6eeb68e7652c65a12b155c5ae.png

    I see that's a present for just one of the kids.

    Lovely mother.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #472
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I see that's a present for just one of the kids.

    Lovely mother.

    No they will all get a pony .....

    She is the mother that keeps on giving and producing under tax payer funding....

    Is there anyone any good at doing a song or poem or something catchyy ..


  • Options
    #473
    Bratzabrata
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Bratzabrata


    eurokev wrote: »
    Was just on Margaret Cash's Facebook and she put up a post reminding us, that just this time last year, she gave an impassioned speech on homelessness outside the gates of the dail and to never give up on fighting to get our home,

    Such a strong woman, who now has her home which has a new addition - a little horse, no less - a present she got her son for his birthday.

    Inspirational stuff to see on a Friday, when I'm about to head home after a 60odd hour week

    i like it wrolciem jhfud


  • Options
    #474
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I see that's a present for just one of the kids.

    Lovely mother.

    I'm no fan of hers, and it's a stupid fúcing present, but you do you understand the concept of birthday presents? You don't dole them out (see what i done there:D) on a one for everyone in the audience basis. They do tend to be for the birthday boy or girl.


  • Options
    #475
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    You don't dole them out (see what i done there:D) on a one for everyone in the audience basis. They do tend to be for the birthday boy or girl.

    Ah but she has another 6 birthday presents to dole out so it's quite possible she will need a stable built for the potential 7 horses to be given as birthday presents this year
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • Options
    #476
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Gatling wrote: »
    Ah but she has another 6 birthday presents to dole out so it's quite possible she will need a stable built for the potential 7 horses to be given as birthday presents this year

    Theres no way someone could have the audacity to demand the state provide culturally appropriate paddocks and stables for their horses.

    Its inconceivable.


  • Options
    #477
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    I'm no fan of hers, and it's a stupid fúcing present, but you do you understand the concept of birthday presents? You don't dole them out (see what i done there:D) on a one for everyone in the audience basis. They do tend to be for the birthday boy or girl.

    My youngest has asked for a giraffe for Christmas. I can fit a small giraffe in my semi-d garden, but I hope she doesnt look for a rhino or gnu next year


  • Options
    #478
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    I'm no fan of hers, and it's a stupid fúcing present, but you do you understand the concept of birthday presents? You don't dole them out (see what i done there:D) on a one for everyone in the audience basis. They do tend to be for the birthday boy or girl.

    Are you insane? This is obscene. This is animal cruelty. Why doesn’t she buy the child a lion cub for Christmas too? Owning a horse, one horse, costs at least €100 per week. Are you happy for her to get €700 extra per week to keep her children’s horses??


  • Options
    #479
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    Theres no way someone could have the audacity to demand the state provide culturally appropriate paddocks and stables for their horses.

    Its inconceivable.

    Well it’s working out well for the demanders here in Thurles.


  • Options
    #480
    It wasnt me123
    Registered Users Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭It wasnt me123


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Well it’s working out well for the demanders here in Thurles.

    I thought those houses were still empty as the county council wouldn't provide stables or land or both, I can't remember.

    The whole shower should be moved on and put other needy families in the houses.

    Only in ireland could 1.7 million in houses sit idle while waiting for Travellers to make up their mind will they stay or will they go


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #481
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Are you insane? This is obscene. This is animal cruelty. Why doesn’t she buy the child a lion cub for Christmas too? Owning a horse, one horse, costs at least €100 per week. Are you happy for her to get €700 extra per week to keep her children’s horses??

    I think you're missing my point.

    The poster was complaining that the present was for only 1 of the kids - i'm just saying that's how birthday presents work.

    I think anyone that keeps a horse in a housing estate should be shot, It's not in any way a suitable location. Although more so for the other residents sake than the horses, they'll be perfectly fine.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement