One year on from Ms Cash's impassioned speech

23-09-2019 10:46pm

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

There were travellers in my secondary school. They get free secondary education the same as the rest of us.

I'm sure you're not so foolish as to believe that a child's home and family circumstances don't play a part in their upbringing.

Is family immaterial in your worldview? I'd doubt it. Then you must understand that raising a child in a household where education is not valued will have a detrimental impact on their prospects as productive members of society.

How exactly we should address this problem is frought with difficulty. The fact that this problem exists should be immediately obvious to everybody.

Ruraldweller56 · 23-09-2019 10:46pm

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

There were travellers in my secondary school. They get free secondary education the same as the rest of us.

If they choose not to avail of it there's not much the rest of us can do. But do not try to say the opportunity isn't there.

"I can hardly think of any greater egotistical conceit than this stupid delusion that you or I would be any different to the local traveller lad had we been raised in his shoes." - speak for yourself.

Seriously still have no idea if you're just mindlessly trolling or not.

Are you still going with the line about MC's eloquence? Or has that been resoundingly lol'd off the thread?

In fact, I'll do one better.

Every red cent of my 3rd level education was paid for by my parents. I did what I could with summer work and what have you. That was accommodation and board. And fees. No grant.

That's a spicy meatball let me tell you.

How many travellers do you think would have to do the same, if they were to avail of 3rd level education?

Not that I'd begrudge anyone trying to better themselves.

Go on what do you think?

pinkyeye · 23-09-2019 10:49pm

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

In fact, I'll do one better.

Every red cent of my 3rd level education was paid for by my parents. I did what I could with summer work and what have you. That was accommodation and board. And fees. No grant.

That's a spicy meatball let me tell you.

How many travellers do you think would have to do the same, if they were to avail of 3rd level education?

Not that I'd begrudge anyone trying to better themselves.

Go on what do you think?

Now that's simply not true is it?

Your parents paid 30-40k a year for your 3rd level did they? Don't think so. :rolleyes:

Ruraldweller56 · 23-09-2019 10:50pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm sure you're not so foolish as to believe that a child's home and family circumstances don't play a part in their upbringing.

Is family immaterial in your worldview? I'd doubt it. Then you must understand that raising a child in a household where education is not valued will have a detrimental impact on their prospects as productive members of society.

How exactly we should address this problem is frought with difficulty. The fact that this problem exists should be immediately obvious to everybody.

Very little there I'd disagree with.

Fact remains that the opportunity is still there. If their parents (culture) deem it not worth availing of, there's probably not much the rest of us can do about it.

We certainly shouldn't have to suffer because of it.

Ruraldweller56 · 23-09-2019 10:51pm

pinkyeye wrote: »

Now that's simply not true is it?

Your parents paid 30-40k a year for your 3rd level did they? Don't think so. :rolleyes:

Why?

Ruraldweller56 · 23-09-2019 10:54pm

pinkyeye wrote: »

Now that's simply not true is it?

Your parents paid 30-40k a year for your 3rd level did they? Don't think so. :rolleyes:

The normal fees. That normal everyday (but not everyone) has to pay for.

tuxy · 23-09-2019 11:23pm

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

The normal fees. That normal everyday (but not everyone) has to pay for.

Those so called normal fees are still heavily subsidised and only a fraction of what it actually costs to educate one student for a year.
The actual cost is probably closer to €30k - €40k per student per year.
So it's the tax payer that pay most the bill. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, of course investing in the future of people is good.

Ruraldweller56 · 23-09-2019 11:30pm

tuxy wrote: »

Those so called normal fees are still heavily subsidised and only a fraction of what it actually costs to educate one student for a year.
The actual cost is probably closer to €30k - €40k per student per year.
So it's the tax payer that pay most the bill. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, of course investing in the future of people is good.

Fine point taken.

My point is that different people pay different amounts.

sdanseo · 24-09-2019 12:07am

tuxy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/niall_boylan/status/1047526900242022401?lang=en

The gubberment is robbing her alive!

As much as Niall is self-righteous gob****e to beat all self-righteous gob****es, he summed it up quote well at the end there.

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 24-09-2019 9:31am

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I can hardly think of any greater egotistical conceit than this stupid delusion that you or I would be any different to the local traveller lad had we been raised in his shoes.

Traveller culture does irreparable harm to children, raising them in an environment filled with violence and crime, depriving them of a proper education, and turning girls into baby factories while they are still in their teens.

Margaret Cash was taken out of school at age 12. She was married at 15, when other girls her age were doing their Junior Cert. By age 28, she was the mother of seven children, with 39 criminal convictions and her husband in prison. It's absolutely shameful to see this passing for "culture" in twenty-first-century Ireland.

And yet here you are, day after day, defending Travellers on Boards. You don't seem to see how making endless excuses for Travellers and defending their "culture" only enables the ongoing neglect and abuse of children.

kildare lad · 24-09-2019 9:41am

I don't know what's worse , Margaret cash or the brain dead people that support her. Boils my blood the system in this country , normal people breaking their backs , getting up early , going to work , paying childcare and mortgage etc and their tax goin to fund idiots who can't keep their legs closed.

Omackeral · 24-09-2019 9:44am

Kelsey Petite Buggy wrote: »

And yet here you are, day after day, defending Travellers on Boards. You don't seem to see how making endless excuses for Travellers and defending their "culture" only enables the ongoing neglect and abuse of children.

Two things I find strange about Tyrant's posts:

1.They have the ability to tell us all that anyone with a criticism towards Ms Cash is a middle-aged male.

2. Each and every single offering they post is always thanked by the exact same poster, regardless of content.

Cyclepath · 24-09-2019 10:02am

Kelsey Petite Buggy wrote: »

Traveller culture does irreparable harm to children, raising them in an environment filled with violence and crime, depriving them of a proper education, and turning girls into baby factories while they are still in their teens.

Margaret Cash was taken out of school at age 12. She was married at 15, when other girls her age were doing their Junior Cert. By age 28, she was the mother of seven children, with 39 criminal convictions and her husband in prison. It's absolutely shameful to see this passing for "culture" in twenty-first-century Ireland.

And yet here you are, day after day, defending Travellers on Boards. You don't seem to see how making endless excuses for Travellers and defending their "culture" only enables the ongoing neglect and abuse of children.

Sh1t parents raise Sh1t children, regardless of background.

I grew up on the northside and attended school with some absolute ar5eholes, none of whom were travellers.

Obviously we have a problem with traveller 'culture' but is it any different to the problem we have with a more general underclass culture of Sh1t parenting out there?

Is there any point in singling out travellers with Sh1t parenting skills? I don't think it really helps to fix the overall issue we have with an increasingly antisocial underclass.

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 24-09-2019 10:04am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yeah but once again, don't blame Mags. Traveller women are oppressed. Our Gov gives her the houses and money. She's hardly going to say no.

I agree.

I'm primarily interested in the incentives that the Irish state has created.

Someone who leaves school at 12, and has seven kids and 39 criminal convictions by 28, can get a "foreva home" and live well on social welfare.

Meanwhile, other 28-year-olds who finished school, went to university, and got professional jobs have most of their income eaten up by high taxes and extortionate rents. Many are just trying to make ends meet, and doubt that they will ever be able to afford one child, let alone seven.

Something is deeply wrong in Irish society when a Traveller with a primary-level education has more disposable income than a university graduate in a professional job.

PostWoke · 24-09-2019 10:06am

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

How so? We are weighed down with decades of evidence that higher educational attainment and of social class are positively correlated with educational attainment in the subsequent generation.

ABSOLUTE NONSENSE. Kids from travelling communities or low economic status go to the same primary and secondary level education as the rest, but disrupt and bully others instead of learning, which they push back hard against. No homework done, most times they haven't even a pencil in their bag. Come off it now. Did you even go through the Irish educational system?

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 24-09-2019 10:11am

Cyclepath wrote: »

Obviously we have a problem with traveller 'culture' but is it any different to the problem we have with a more general underclass culture of Sh1t parenting out there?

It is different. Travellers have dramatically worse outcomes — in terms of early school-leaving, early marriage/childbearing, antisocial behaviour, crime, domestic abuse, alcohol and drug abuse, suicide, and life expectancy — than people in even the most deprived of settled communities.

_Brian · 24-09-2019 10:11am

Kelsey Petite Buggy wrote: »

I agree.

I'm primarily interested in the incentives that the Irish state has created.

Someone who leaves school at 12, and has seven kids and 39 criminal convictions by 28, can get a "foreva home" and live well on social welfare.

Meanwhile, other 28-year-olds who finished school, went to university, and got professional jobs have most of their income eaten up by high taxes and extortionate rents. Many are just trying to make ends meet, and doubt that they will ever be able to afford one child, let alone seven.

Something is deeply wrong in Irish society when a Traveller with a primary-level education has more disposable income than a university graduate in a professional job.

Sensible post that hits at the core of the problem.

Ruraldweller56 · 24-09-2019 10:13am

PostWoke wrote: »

ABSOLUTE NONSENSE. Kids from travelling communities or low economic status go to the same primary and secondary level education as the rest, but disrupt and bully others instead of learning, which they push back hard against. No homework done, most times they haven't even a pencil in their bag. Come off it now. Did you even go through the Irish educational system?

Exactly. The opportunity is there. The same as it is for the rest of us.

That they choose not to avail of it is their own business.

sbsquarepants · 24-09-2019 10:20am

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Then you must understand that raising a child in a household where education is not valued will have a detrimental impact on their prospects as productive members of society.
.

And sure why would it be? Study for years get a degree, a masters whatever and then get a job starting at 30k where rent will take 20 of that straight off the bat.... or go on the rob, do whatever the fúck you like and get a free house with enough room for all your little angels and their horsey out the back......plus that 30k.

The system is so far out of whack you can hardly even call it a system anymore!

BattleCorp · 24-09-2019 10:27am

Kelsey Petite Buggy wrote: »

It is different. Travellers have dramatically worse outcomes — in terms of early school-leaving, early marriage/childbearing, antisocial behaviour, crime, domestic abuse, alcohol and drug abuse, suicide, and life expectancy — than people in even the most deprived of settled communities.

All of that is of the travellers own making.

There's no systematic reason why they can't avail of education. They are encouraged to do so by the State. They choose not to follow that path.

Early marriage and childbearing isn't forced on them by the state. They chose to follow that path.

Antisocial behaviour. They choose to follow that path.

Crime. They choose to follow that path.

Alcohol and drug abuse. They choose to follow that path.

Suicide................. I'll leave that one there.

Life expectancy. They don't look after themselves and shun education that might help prolong their life. Again, their choice.

All of their woes are of their own making.

sbsquarepants · 24-09-2019 10:32am

Kelsey Petite Buggy wrote: »

It is different. Travellers have dramatically worse outcomes — in terms of early school-leaving, early marriage/childbearing, antisocial behaviour, crime, domestic abuse, alcohol and drug abuse, suicide, and life expectancy — than people in even the most deprived of settled communities.

Travellers are not victims of anything except their own shítty "culture" It's just not some precious gem worth preserving, it's in everyone's interest for it to die out, even the travellers themselves. And die out is exactly what it would do if a bottomless pit of tax payers money wasn't being used to keep it on life support.

punisher5112 · 24-09-2019 10:32am

Where is tusla in all of this and social workers???

If I pulled my daughter out of school tomorrow I'd be doing time.(obviously after a number of months).

BattleCorp · 24-09-2019 10:34am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Where is tusla in all of this and social workers???

If I pulled my daughter out of school tomorrow I'd be doing time.(obviously after a number of months).

Don't you know that rules and laws are for 'country people' and not travellers.

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 24-09-2019 10:36am

BattleCorp wrote: »

All of that is of the travellers own making.

I agree.

Those who defend disastrous life choices as a "culture" worth protecting are only helping perpetuate the problem.

Can anyone name one positive attribute of this "culture" that demonstrably benefits either the country or Travellers themselves?

FutureGuy · 24-09-2019 10:40am

A miniature horse.

Glad my taxes are going to good use.

Mr. teddywinkles · 24-09-2019 10:51am

BattleCorp wrote: »

Don't you know that rules and laws are for 'country people' and not travellers.

What does yis think all that ethnic ****e was about. So they could live by a different set of rules.

Omackeral · 24-09-2019 10:52am

FutureGuy wrote: »

A miniature horse.

Glad my taxes are going to good use.

It's only 40cent so check your privilege you cisgendered straight white able-bodied male.

BattleCorp · 24-09-2019 10:56am

Omackeral wrote: »

It's only 40cent so check your privilege you cisgendered straight white middle aged able-bodied male.

punisher5112 · 24-09-2019 11:09am

Kelsey Petite Buggy wrote: »

I agree.

Those who defend disastrous life choices as a "culture" worth protecting are only helping perpetuate the problem.

Can anyone name one positive attribute of this "culture" that demonstrably benefits either the country or Travellers themselves?

When they use to fix and make things was good....

Now it's smashy smashy, Rob, drugs, animal cruelty, under age sex, keeping slaves etc etc...

Ruraldweller56 · 24-09-2019 11:16am

https://youtu.be/PQAFSVu941s

I miss when travellers were this.

One year on from Ms Cash's impassioned speech

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