Girls don't cycle! Guess whos fault it is?

jimgoose · 20-09-2019 01:26PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Or more like the usual "feminist" ballsology of; some women have a problem(usually non-existent or invented), therefore obviously it's men's fault. It would be nice if those daft harpies would just eff off and leave the rest of humanity alone.

No, I think it's more along the lines of some women/girls have a problem, and it's quite likely to be the fault of a very small handful of knuckledraggers.

20-09-2019 01:26PM

Earthhorse wrote: »

I did read it. There's no tone of condescension meant in my post.

It's still asking a great deal of a 13 year old to ignore that kind of thing even if it makes her feel unsafe, and to just keep putting herself in that situation.

I wasn't lacking in confidence either, but lacking in worldliness and the ability to cope with adult harassment. There's a gap between confidence and the skills to overcome that sort of thing when you're feeling intimidated as a child.

jimgoose · 20-09-2019 01:27PM

Bondetf wrote: »

Then lack of resilience in women is the reason for differing number of cyclists if that is what you're saying.

That isn't what I'm saying and you display a, shall we say, idiosyncratic command of logic via such a statement. :pac:

Reviews and Books Galore · 20-09-2019 01:28PM

cnocbui wrote: »

If you had read her first hand account of being on the receiving end of male harassment earlier in the thread, you might have perhaps had second thoughts about being so condescending.

She's an adult, you don't have to defend her.

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

There are different levels of physical assault too. Again, its about the fear, not the impact or level of the assault.

My definition would be the legal definition, not sure why you felt the need to bring me too into the conversation.

No real reason.

begsbyOnaTrain · 20-09-2019 01:29PM

whisky_galore wrote: »

Oz is full of dickheads

Could have left it at that tbh.

20-09-2019 01:30PM

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

She's an adult, you don't have to defend her.

Indeed I am. And so is that poster, engaging in discussion on a discussion site, who doesn't need you to police them.

Mad_maxx · 20-09-2019 01:31PM

begsbyOnaTrain wrote: »

We need to make it illegal for boys to go to school. It's the progressive thing to do. Also to make sure they don't act up and display toxic masculinity, boys (and indeed men) should not be allowed outside without being accompanied by a female relative or spouse. It's for their own good.

I'd go further and take Julie bindels recommendation, "men should be placed in camps "

Earthhorse · 20-09-2019 01:31PM

Candie wrote: »

It's still asking a great deal of a 13 year old to ignore that kind of thing even if it makes her feel unsafe, and to just keep putting herself in that situation.

If the situation continues, I agree. If the situation happens intermittently that's different.

I wasn't lacking in confidence either, but lacking in worldliness and the ability to cope with adult harassment. There's a gap between confidence and the skills to overcome that sort of thing when you're feeling intimidated as a child.

Okay, then we teach young women those coping skills.

storker · 20-09-2019 01:33PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Thinking back to my schooldays and cycling to school, even then(back in the 80's) there were far fewer girls cycling to school. Walking or bus was the norm.

I never cycled to school. It would have been a one-way trip for the bike...

NewClareman · 20-09-2019 01:34PM

seamus wrote: »

Women: “the ones who do cycle say verbal harassment from boys and men is a top deterrent”

This thread: "No, that can't be it! Let's not listen to actual experience, let's just whine about an anti-man agenda"

Why is it so difficult for some people to accept it when women en masse tell you that they experience harrassment from men on an daily basis? Why do you automatically assume that they're lying and engaging in an attack on men?

"I don't see it, so it mustn't happen" - is that it? Is it just self-centeredness?

I’m not convinced that the negative commentators “automatically assume that they're lying”. Anyone, male or female, who’s socially active knows full well that it goes on. There is a sense of entitlement with some men, that they have a right to treat women exactly as the please. Pathetic!!!

20-09-2019 01:35PM

Earthhorse wrote: »

If the situation continues, I agree. If the situation happens intermittently that's different.

Okay, then we teach young women those coping skills.

I am intermittently harassed (as as most women runners I know) when I'm out running alone. It doesn't stop me. I was also harassed at the pool, but I still swim daily. Most of us cope just fine as adults.

We need to teach everyone those skills. Expecting a 13 year old to have honed those skills is unrealistic, and of course all kids are different. If a child can't cope with adult harassment, male or female, it's not something lacking in them or their fault they're upset because they're not resilient enough.

Earthhorse · 20-09-2019 01:38PM

Candie wrote: »

We need to teach everyone those skills.

Right, like we need to teach everyone not to harass other people?

Expecting a 13 year old to have honed those skills is unrealistic, and of course all kids are different.

I don't have that expectation.

If a child can't cope with adult harassment, male or female, it's not something lacking in them or their fault they're upset because they're not resilient enough.

I don't blame the child. In fact, I'm trying to suggest we help them.

Chips Lovell · 20-09-2019 01:41PM

Research suggests helmets probably do help mitigate injuries in some circumstances.

However, your chance of sustaining a serious head injury while cycling is quite low.

Alcohol is a factor in far more head injuries than cycling.

If you're serious about reducing head injuries, you should be lobbying for mandatory drinking helmets first.

NewClareman · 20-09-2019 01:45PM

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

It's perfectly normal to make comments about the opposite sex. I'm not saying to shout it at the woman, but the disgusted face aspect seems puritan to me.

It depends on what those comments are. Comments that deliberately demean women say more about the perpetrator than their target. The disgusted face is an excellent suggestion.

20-09-2019 01:45PM

NewClareman wrote: »

I’m not convinced that the negative commentators “automatically assume that they're lying”. Anyone, male or female, who’s socially active knows full well that it goes on. There is a sense of entitlement with some men, that they have a right to treat women exactly as the please. Pathetic!!!

its probably more that any and all perceived problems stated by a woman (edit: in an article like this for clickbait, not in general i mean) are amplified and boosted without an awful lot in the way of fair or reasonable critical analysis.

let alone questioned (as a poster has done quite well and fairly in this thread only to be attacked) subjectively- did this really affect you the rest of your day? while acknowledging it happens and ideally would be addressed if we could as a society, would you have been better off ignoring it or brushing it off? its treated as appalling to even ask, jesus its the best advice youd ever get about this world- theres a minority of arseholes, learn to ignore them or theyll be delighted, get on with your day and youll be the better for it

and negative behaviours that can be attributed to a small minority of men are treated as endemic across the population

any problems prevalent amongst or also impacting upon men are minimised or erased.

youll always have the likes of seamus furiously overreacting to people who want to have a discussion about these things. i dont know what those people object to so much in a discussion, but if the alternative is having articles like this accepted as the only truth available on any given topic, well yknow there's going to be kickback to that. its an idiotic article with a deliberately provocative take.

CrankyHaus · 20-09-2019 01:47PM

While harrassment of women by men is unacceptable and still unacceptably frequent is there any credible evidence for the journalist's assertion that this is what dissuades female cyclists?

My sister cycles. Her troubles were taxis knocking her off her bicycle and then burning off or passing dangerously close at speed. She never mentioned any catcalls.
My GF never mentioned any catcalls either. Not did any woman I know.

With respect to Candie it's my understanding that her childhood was in a different country and at a different time, when casual sexism was more common and more tolerated. I'm prepared to believe it's still prevalent here in Ireland but I wouldn't mind seeing real evidence that it's the reason for less female cyclists instead of some lazy hack's trolling assertion.

randd1 · 20-09-2019 01:51PM

Mad_maxx wrote: »

I'd go further and take Julie bindels recommendation, "men should be placed in camps "

That could never happen.

First off, who would build them? I don't see too many ladies on the building sites.

Secondly, even if they did build them, the ladies wouldn't be able to police them, purely because if they tried to all the men would have to do is tell every second on one of them that the lady across the way said she looked fat in her clothes, and let them tear each other apart.

suicide_circus · 20-09-2019 01:51PM

inforfun wrote: »

But also noticing the efforts a lot of the girls went through to get out of PE, which we had 3x a week in those days, i think i can guess why a lot of them preferred the bus over cycling.

i also attended a mixed secondary school with PE being segregated. Big issues with girls participating in PE in my school and this seems to remain an issue. Hard to believe that this is unrelated to the cycling issue and hard to lay the blame for this at the feet of cat calls or leering pervs.

PhilOssophy · 20-09-2019 01:51PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Go to Denmark or Holland, countries comparable to Ireland. Huge numbers of men and women cycle to get about, without the need to dress up in helmets and hi vis. And their roads are safer than ours.

Never read such BS. Nobody makes anybody wear high-vis or helmets (the legal requirement is for a front light and back light). They are the individual choice. To claim that they are an obstruction to cycling is bull.

The real problems are
1. The attitude towards cyclists (as a commuting cyclist myself, I can attest to this) from other road users.
2. The behaviour of cyclists (running red lights, cycling on the footpath, etc) - a massive barrier to better cycling facilities is the general attitude of some cyclists to the rules of the road. People talk about Denmark and Holland - they don't go on with the crap cyclists here do.
3. Poor cycling facilities around schools.
4. Poor driver behaviour in and around schools (parking everywhere, doors flying open, etc).

Reviews and Books Galore · 20-09-2019 01:52PM

NewClareman wrote: »

It depends on what those comments are. Comments that deliberately demean women say more about the perpetrator than their target. The disgusted face is an excellent suggestion.

Sex isn't demeaning. It's perfectly natural animal activity and doesn't demean the person involved and there is nothing disgusting about sex.

Wibbs · 20-09-2019 01:54PM

Chips Lovell wrote: »

If you're serious about reducing head injuries, you should be lobbying for mandatory drinking helmets first.

Works for me!

padd b1975 · 20-09-2019 01:57PM

Maybe things would improve if they learned how to go side-saddle?

Seth Brundle · 20-09-2019 01:57PM

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Taking the lane is now recommended by the Road Safety Authority and is now in the Rules of the Road.
It is safer than allowing cars to squeeze past you on busy roads.

And groups of cyclists take it to extremes.
I am a cyclist and am appalled by the attitude of some cyclists, mainly club cyclists, or training groups.

"Take it to extremes" doing what exactly?
As someone who cycles frequently both alone and with a group, I don't recall seeing it taken to the extreme!

20-09-2019 01:58PM

CrankyHaus wrote: »

With respect to Candie it's my understanding that her childhood was in a different country and at a different time, when casual sexism was more common and more tolerated. I'm prepared to believe it's still prevalent here in Ireland but I wouldn't mind seeing real evidence that it's the reason for less female cyclists instead of some lazy hack's trolling assertion.

I'm 32, it was a fair while ago (I was 13) and in England but I meet harassment more often than I'd like if I'm out running alone and it's not a huge cultural gap, if any at all.

I've never seen anyone beaten up, m partner was never beaten up, my brother was never beaten up, I don't know man who was just beaten up on a night out. Does that mean it doesn't happen or it's a rare event? Course not.

20-09-2019 02:01PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

"Take it to extremes" doing what exactly?
As someone who cycles frequently both alone and with a group, I don't recall seeing it taken to the extreme!

theres a decent balance between taking the road and acknowledging that you are travelling significantly slower than other traffic

i was up the sally gap recently and obviously it was busy with groups

everyone took the road, and 95% ceded when safe to allow me by. for my part, i stayed back and respected them on the road until safe to go by.

there was the 5% that stayed out in the way regardless, just as there'll be a minority of motorists who dont respect the cyclists safety

doesnt do any good to get het up or deny that the minority exist tho

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 20-09-2019 02:05PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Not going to get into the battle of the sexes thing but this is more evidence that insisting on safety gear reduces the number of cyclists and effectively makes the streets more dangerous for everyone.

Go to Denmark or Holland, countries comparable to Ireland. Huge numbers of men and women cycle to get about, without the need to dress up in helmets and hi vis. And their roads are safer than ours.

Cycling should be seen as natural, normal and practical and something you do in the same clothes you walk about in.

Doesn’t Holland have an excellent, contiguous cycle lane network though?

Anyhoo, can’t say I ever felt singled out as a female cyclist. The odd time stopped at lights, I’d have a conversation or flirt with a driver but that’s it. And I always enjoyed that.

Salary Negotiator · 20-09-2019 02:05PM

cnocbui wrote: »

I rode a bicycle for at least a decade prior to the introduction of mandatory helmets in Australia. I know my anecdotal observations are completely worthless, as I would have only seen several thousand cyclists in that time, a tiny fraction of the total, but by some astonishing statistical fluke, I managed to see no cyclists wearing helmets; I know I certainly didn't. But yeah, you are right, I must have been cycling for a decade, blissfully unaware of the astonishing statistical anomaly bubble that accompanied me everywhere I went.

Playing devils advocate runs the risk of a bit of rub-off.

I'm just explaining why you are wrong to make the claim that serious head injuries in Australia fell by 70% as a result of making it mandatory to wear a helmet.

It's not devils advocate to point out your error, however well intended that error may be.

randd1 · 20-09-2019 02:06PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Go to Denmark or Holland, countries comparable to Ireland. Huge numbers of men and women cycle to get about, without the need to dress up in helmets and hi vis. And their roads are safer than ours.

They're not comparable though.

They're smaller countries with bigger populations (Holland has 17m living in an area the size of Munster, Denmark has 6m in not too much bigger, but a lot of small islands). Space isn't a luxury in them, so they have to plan to use the space as effectively as possible. Their cities have an awful lot of apartment blocks and great public transport systems. So cycling makes sense as a mode of transport, and so is encouraged and planned for.

Compared to here where every few years they build a housing estate at the edge of town because it's where we have the space, usually on a crap road. But those miles from town add up. Throw in the crap weather and ****e roads and it basically screams get a car.

Diemos · 20-09-2019 02:07PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

theres a decent balance between taking the road and acknowledging that you are travelling significantly slower than other traffic

i was up the sally gap recently and obviously it was busy with groups

everyone took the road, and 95% ceded when safe to allow me by. for my part, i stayed back and respected them on the road until safe to go by.

there was the 5% that stayed out in the way regardless, just as there'll be a minority of motorists who dont respect the cyclists safety

doesnt do any good to get het up or deny that the minority exist tho

The difference between the 2 groups of extremists is that the motorised group can kill. So just because there are ar$es in every mode doesnot mean they should be equal.

Seth Brundle · 20-09-2019 02:11PM

Deleted User wrote: »

theres a decent balance between taking the road and acknowledging that you are travelling significantly slower than other traffic

i was up the sally gap recently and obviously it was busy with groups

everyone took the road, and 95% ceded when safe to allow me by. for my part, i stayed back and respected them on the road until safe to go by.

there was the 5% that stayed out in the way regardless, just as there'll be a minority of motorists who dont respect the cyclists safety

doesnt do any good to get het up or deny that the minority exist tho

There is no obligation on a cyclist to let a motorist pass.
If it is not safe for the motorist to pass then the cyclist is perfectly right for not letting the driver pass.
If you could not pass the cyclists, then it was not safe! They do not have to move out of your way!