Girls don't cycle! Guess whos fault it is?

Marhay70

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Where exactly did I say that "all cyclists are blameless"?

So you do think some cyclists are to blame.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's very different. The suggestion that cyclists would not be killed if they were wearing helmets and hi-vis has no evidence to support it.

And actually, a lot more motorists are being killed in those gaps than cyclists.

renko a mhic, you so deliberately mangle what's said that it's an exercise in frustration to try to even correct you.

motorists are not dying in collisions with cyclists.

now i saw you earlier claiming that the number of cyclists killed vs motorists is a tiny proportion in support of some facetious point about motorists being more in danger than cyclists. completely decontextualised and random of course.

would you accept that this statistic was justification to not pay any attention to cyclist deaths? i daresay not. but you will consistently try to have your cake and eat it and tbh its very hard to make sense of where youll jump next.

to argue with you is to be beaten more by your tolerance for this type of hopping around long after the original topic is being addressed than it is any merit in yr case, if anything so coherent could be classed as a single case

and yet another thread turns into "why andrew doesnt wear a helmet and you cant make him"

monument

Moderator warning:

The topic is "Girls don't cycle! Guess who's fault it is?"

This thread is now in Commuting and Transport and thus the C&T charter applies.

Posts off topic will from now on get deleted. Distasteful and other nonsensical posts have already been deleted.

Continued discussion about high-vis is not allowed unless it relates directly to the topic at hand. We already have some people think works and others don't -- please don't go around in circles.

-- moderator

Eric Cartman

Sure there was that report about the amount of women who don't wear seatbelts trying not to ruin their tan. Now this about the look of safety gear.

We have a massive issue in our society with women putting their personal safety second to their appearance. You'd close a hell of a lot of gaps if you had programs targeting this toxic feminity

shootermacg

Marhay70 wrote: »

So you do think some cyclists are to blame.

Are to blame for what exactly? Killing motorists? It's amazing to me that some muppets think that threatening someone's life through careless driving is exactly the same as a cyclist jumping a light or wearing the wrong clothes.

If someone wants to put their own life at risk, off with them. But don't for a second think that means that ALL cyclists are reckless and deserve punishment passes etc.

magicbastarder

i found the irish study i assume you're referring to. specifically, the one i found is about wearing seatbelts under your arm.
if it's the same study, to suggest it's about protecting their tan is wilfully misreading the stats.
72% of women never do it, 13% rarely, and the rest between sometimes and always.
however, in the reasons stated for wearing it under your arm, 6% stated protecting a tan was the reason; so that's 6% of a max of 28% (and that's *not* 28% who habitually do it)
https://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Seatbelts/Misuse%20of%20Seatbelts%20Among%20Females%20Aged%2017-34%20Years%20.pdf

however, what's far more interesting is that more than ten times as many women who admit to wearing it under arm, state it's due to comfort or irritation issues. and seatbelt design is known to be lacking when it comes to designing them for women:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/feb/23/truth-world-built-for-men-car-crashes

Marhay70

shootermacg wrote: »

Are to blame for what exactly? Killing motorists? It's amazing to me that some muppets think that threatening someone's life through careless driving is exactly the same as a cyclist jumping a light or wearing the wrong clothes.

If someone wants to put their own life at risk, off with them. But don't for a second think that means that ALL cyclists are reckless and deserve punishment passes etc.

Maybe if you followed the discussion rather than jumping in bald headed you would see the significance of that comment. I'm not going to explain it to you.

shootermacg

Marhay70 wrote: »

Maybe if you followed the discussion rather than jumping in bald headed you would see the significance of that comment. I'm not going to explain it to you.

I can feel the road rage rising.

shootermacg

Marhay70 wrote: »

I find it difficult to care about cyclists' well being when so many of them seem to care little about their own well being.

I'd rather be bald than share opinions like these.

monument

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Sure there was that report about the amount of women who don't wear seatbelts trying not to ruin their tan. Now this about the look of safety gear.

We have a massive issue in our society with women putting their personal safety second to their appearance. You'd close a hell of a lot of gaps if you had programs targeting this toxic feminity

Irish man tells women it's all "toxic feminity"... meanwhile in the safest EU country for cycling...

magicbastarder

yeah, women love hearing men explaining to them that the reason for their lack of safety on the roads is due to the women themselves.

and the irony is that it's basically a bunch of blokes left here now (well, it seems to be mainly blokes) arguing the point because all the women have collapsed from all the eye rolling they've been doing at this debate.

Eric Cartman

magicbastarder wrote: »

yeah, women love hearing men explaining to them that the reason for their lack of safety on the roads is due to the women themselves.

and the irony is that it's basically a bunch of blokes left here now (well, it seems to be mainly blokes) arguing the point because all the women have collapsed from all the eye rolling they've been doing at this debate.

female journalists are constantly telling men what to do, write about what men should do etc...

heaven forbid a man has an opinion on a topic when even the female author of the piece we're discussing agrees with me that its an issue.

but boo urns men or whatever makes people feel better.

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

female journalists are constantly telling men what to do, write about what men should do etc...

heaven forbid a man has an opinion on a topic when even the female author of the piece we're discussing agrees with me that its an issue.

but boo urns men or whatever makes people feel better.

I don't think there's anything controversial or extreme feminist about having an option that teenage girls should be able to cycle to school without getting harassed.



Everyone's welcome to have their own opinion, but it's generally a good idea to listen to the people directly involved in issues like this.

AndrewJRenko

Marhay70 wrote: »

So you do think some cyclists are to blame.

Marhay70 wrote: »

Maybe if you followed the discussion rather than jumping in bald headed you would see the significance of that comment. I'm not going to explain it to you.

I'm following the discussion, but honestly, I'm a bit lost as to what you're asking.

Marhay70

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm following the discussion, but honestly, I'm a bit lost as to what you're asking.

Do you see any question marks? I am making statements.

SeanW

namloc1980 wrote: »

Hi Vis vests are the bane of cyclists. They're cycling, not going to a building site. If hi vis is so key to road safety why aren't cars painted with hi viz paint?

Have you ever seen a car? Cars have a full suite of lights, including brake lights and indicators for use at all times, and additional lights for use at night. Very few people claim they can't see a car coming for those reasons.

magicbastarder

SeanW wrote: »

indicators for use at all times

someone get me my smelling salts. i feel faint.

kirving

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's very different. The suggestion that cyclists would not be killed if they were wearing helmets and hi-vis has no evidence to support it.

I've come off my bike twice, albeit not commuting, and I'm absolutely convinced I would have got a serious brain injury or worse each time, had I not been wearing a helmet *properly*. But that's only my personal experience. You can say doctors aren't experts in cycling safety, but they were very glad I was wearing a helmet.

Many of the anti-helmet post here use carefully selected language such as "associated with" and "linked to" closer passing. There is no 1:1 correlation.

Equally, most evidence against the wearing of safety gear is tenuous at best, and often reliant on applying Scandinavin studies to Ireland's wholly different infrastructure.

For what it's worth, I cycle in the city with no helmet or hi-vis (reflective is best) and there's absolutely no way should it be made mandatory in my view. I'm in agreement with safety in numbers.

At the same time, it should be encouraged where practical. DublinBikes, no. Commuters, yes.

As it stands though, not wanting helmet hair or thinking they look stupid stops many girls I know from cycling.

If we can agree (we probably won't) for a second that helmets and reflective clothing are for the most part helpful in individual cases (without being mandatory), should we encourage girls to wear them?

The biggest thing I see lacking is basic training. Too many cyclists put their lives in the hands of inattentive drivers because they flat out don't know any better where to position themselves on the road.

Men are more aggressive on the road, both driving and cycling, and I think tend to let themselves be put in dangerous positions or be cut off less often than women. Cycling in the city then becomes a more scary prospect for women, again in general.