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Girls don't cycle! Guess whos fault it is?

  • 20-09-2019 9:57am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 9,832 ✭✭✭ py2006
    Registered User


    If we want schoolgirls to start cycling education is key - and boys and men are the ones we need to educate

    According to Tanya Sweeney of the Independent in her article there is a gender gap when it comes to cycling to and from school.

    Tanya puts it down to boys and men (who all need to be educated) who feel they must shout at a school girl cycling. Its rampant apparently.
    Young women shouldn't have to get used to it, but until such a point as boys and men are educated.....

    The next paragraph or so actually addresses the real reason IMO.
    Hi-viz vests, helmets and other safety measures are also a deterrent, apparently, as some teenage girls don't want to be seen arriving to school wearing them. I get that peer pressure, and an overwhelming desire to fit in, is a huge, potent part of the schoolgirl experience.

    You'll do anything to look normal as a teenage girl in front of other teenage girls. And this generation of young women seems especially invested in physical appearance and what constitutes a passably trendy look (and what doesn't).

    Granted, it's somewhat perplexing that some people are so self-conscious and enslaved to 'The Look' that they'd rather take their chances and forego a helmet and risk splattering their brains on the road. Yet it's disheartening that it's something that has stopped them from saddling up in the first place.

    Anyway, sigh


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭ grassroot1
    Registered User


    Anti man BS again, I would not let my daughter or son cycle to school as its too dangerous.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,318 ✭✭✭✭ vicwatson
    Registered User


    “the ones who do cycle say verbal harassment from boys and men is a top deterrent”

    What the f is that all about?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,875 ✭✭✭✭ denartha
    Registered User


    If it really is about appearance, is it not more to do with the fact that they don't want to arrive in school sweaty and with helmet hair?


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,318 ✭✭✭✭ vicwatson
    Registered User


    grassroot1 wrote: »
    Anti man BS again, I would not let my daughter or son cycle to school as its too dangerous.

    It’s not anti man but it is too dangerous


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]
    Registered User


    Not going to get into the battle of the sexes thing but this is more evidence that insisting on safety gear reduces the number of cyclists and effectively makes the streets more dangerous for everyone.

    Go to Denmark or Holland, countries comparable to Ireland. Huge numbers of men and women cycle to get about, without the need to dress up in helmets and hi vis. And their roads are safer than ours.

    Cycling should be seen as natural, normal and practical and something you do in the same clothes you walk about in.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,423 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui
    Registered User


    I am surprised they didn't mention not wanting to arrive at school looking like a drowned rat and with clothes soaked in road gunge. It's not a climate that exactly invites cycling.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 129 ✭✭ GRACKEA


    Girls being forced to wear skirts to school is a definite barrier to cycling in fairness and could be considered sexist. But it can be addressed practically and immediately if schools weren't so backward.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,463 ✭✭✭✭ lawred2
    Registered User


    py2006 wrote: »
    If we want schoolgirls to start cycling education is key - and boys and men are the ones we need to educate

    According to Tanya Sweeney of the Independent in her article there is a gender gap when it comes to cycling to and from school.

    Tanya puts it down to boys and men (who all need to be educated) who feel they must shout at a school girl cycling. Its rampant apparently.



    The next paragraph or so actually addresses the real reason IMO.



    Anyway, sigh

    that's a trolling/click bait article


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]
    Registered User


    It would be nice if I could go for a run alone on the streets without cars slowing down so people can give their opinion me.

    It would have been nice, as a schoolgirl, if grown adults hadn't made lewd comments about my school uniform on me. It would also have been nice as a young teenager, if a person hadn't put his hand out of his car window to slap me on the backside when I was on a bike at traffic lights. I never used the bike again, because I didn't know how to deal with those situations - because I was a kid and it didn't feel safe anymore to me. I was tiny too, when I was 13 I looked about ten. I didn't care about helmet hair.

    These things put girls off doing things, because kids aren't really equipped to see off intimidating adults.

    Very few people do these things, but they have a huge affect on how comfortable and safe girls feel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,890 ✭✭✭✭ whisky_galore
    Registered User


    Orinoco wrote: »
    Not going to get into the battle of the sexes thing but this is more evidence that insisting on safety gear reduces the number of cyclists and effectively makes the streets more dangerous for everyone.

    Go to Denmark or Holland, countries comparable to Ireland. Huge numbers of men and women cycle to get about, without the need to dress up in helmets and hi vis. And their roads are safer than ours.

    Cycling should be seen as natural, normal and practical and something you do in the same clothes you walk about in.

    Not comparable, their infrastructure is better and their motorists don't behave like knobends. Culture is different too, if you own a car here you've made it, if a push bike is all you have you're a student or a failure. Loads of people wouldn't be seen dead on a bicycle here.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭ JMNolan
    Registered User


    I cycled to work for years. I had abuse screamed at me, nearly run over many times, rocks thrown at me but at least I wasn't catcalled.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,244 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980
    Registered User


    Hi Vis vests are the bane of cyclists. They're cycling, not going to a building site. If hi vis is so key to road safety why aren't cars painted with hi viz paint?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 272 ✭✭ begsbyOnaTrain


    We need to make it illegal for boys to go to school. It's the progressive thing to do. Also to make sure they don't act up and display toxic masculinity, boys (and indeed men) should not be allowed outside without being accompanied by a female relative or spouse. It's for their own good.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]
    Registered User


    Reductio ad absurdum.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭ Ray Palmer
    Registered User


    The harassment of all cyclists is an issue. Not uncommon for people motorists or pedestrians to throw things at cyclists. Verbal abuse is almost daily occurrence and threats with vehicles too.
    Very common to see women being harassed while walking down the street too. Have seen so many lads in vans jeering at women as I go to work. Complained to the companies on a number of occasions when the company details have been on the van. Only one ever apologised.
    I would certainly see that as very intimidating for a school girl. The fashion and appearance thing is a factor but I have seen school boys taking off helmets once away from their homes. Not just a female thing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,319 ✭✭✭✭ seamus
    Dental Plan!


    Women: “the ones who do cycle say verbal harassment from boys and men is a top deterrent”

    This thread: "No, that can't be it! Let's not listen to actual experience, let's just whine about an anti-man agenda"

    Why is it so difficult for some people to accept it when women en masse tell you that they experience harrassment from men on an daily basis? Why do you automatically assume that they're lying and engaging in an attack on men?

    "I don't see it, so it mustn't happen" - is that it? Is it just self-centeredness?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,423 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui
    Registered User


    We need to make it illegal for boys to go to school. It's the progressive thing to do. Also to make sure they don't act up and display toxic masculinity, boys (and indeed men) should not be allowed outside without being accompanied by a female relative or spouse. It's for their own good.

    I'm glad you showed up. I was thinking of responding to candie's comment to point out that many male boardsies are blind to the actual real world behaviour of their half of the species towards women and girls and tend to get very upset when a mirror is held up to them, insisting it must be be a trick as their version of reality doesn't look like that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,799 ✭✭✭✭ Dyr
    Registered User


    Orinoco wrote: »
    Not going to get into the battle of the sexes thing but this is more evidence that insisting on safety gear reduces the number of cyclists and effectively makes the streets more dangerous for everyone.

    Go to Denmark or Holland, countries comparable to Ireland. Huge numbers of men and women cycle to get about, without the need to dress up in helmets and hi vis. And their roads are safer than ours.

    Cycling should be seen as natural, normal and practical and something you do in the same clothes you walk about in.

    It should be so natural and normal that cycling on footpaths or the wrong way up a road should be commonplace, which in Ireland it is. We probably lead the world in this regards


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,703 ✭✭✭✭ Earthhorse
    Registered User


    Candie wrote: »
    Very few people do these things, but they have a huge affect on how comfortable and safe girls feel.

    Personally speaking I'm skeptical that such behaviour can be educated out of these very few people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,372 ✭✭✭ kirving
    Registered User


    Candie wrote: »
    It would be nice if I could go for a run alone on the streets without cars slowing down so people can give their opinion me.

    ......

    Very few people do these things, but they have a huge affect on how comfortable and safe girls feel.

    That's completely f-d up to say the least. As a guy, who went to a mixed school, and used to cycle absolutely everywhere with my friends as a teenager, we all used to think it was brilliant when girls cycled. Even going to the park which would be an hour's walk was out of the question for the girls who didn't cycle.

    Now obviously boys in general tend to be more active as teenagers, and that shouldn't necessarily be the case.

    But the result of most of the boys cycling and the girls not, was that the number of places we could go was increased 10 fold.

    Any kid who doesn't cycle is really missing out on a huge opportunity for exploring their local area and beyond.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,394 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Weepsie
    Moderator


    grassroot1 wrote: »
    Anti man BS again, I would not let my daughter or son cycle to school as its too dangerous.

    The more you encourage kids to cycle, the more normalised it becomes and the less dangerous it is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭ topper75
    Registered User


    Orinoco wrote: »
    Not going to get into the battle of the sexes thing but this is more evidence that insisting on safety gear reduces the number of cyclists and effectively makes the streets more dangerous for everyone.

    Go to Denmark or Holland, countries comparable to Ireland. Huge numbers of men and women cycle to get about, without the need to dress up in helmets and hi vis. And their roads are safer than ours.

    Cycling should be seen as natural, normal and practical and something you do in the same clothes you walk about in.

    I agree fully with you in relation to urban commuter environments.

    On 80kmh country roads I'm sticking with the helmet and offensively gaudy lycra, gaudy to the point where people will know at my funeral that if the bastard got me: he meant it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,143 ✭✭✭✭ jimgoose
    Registered User


    Candie wrote: »
    ...Very few people do these things, but they have a huge affect on how comfortable and safe girls feel.

    It would be nice if we could behave decently to each other, including to children and young ladies. This saddens me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,319 ✭✭✭✭ seamus
    Dental Plan!


    Earthhorse wrote: »
    Personally speaking I'm skeptical that such behaviour can be educated out of these very few people.
    It can be discouraged.

    Education can take many forms. It doesn't necessarily have to be sitting someone down in a classroom and telling them something is wrong. It can be getting sh1t from your mates when you say something horrible.

    In this case, if someone makes a comment about a woman and turns around for approval from their mates only to be met with disgusted faces...that's education.

    And that involves encouraging kids to speak out when they see disrespectful behaviour from their peers, and rewarding and celebrating it.

    Where in the past there was always a hevay focus on "going along with the crowd", rewarding kids for being team players and punishing individuality, now we're moving towards a model of rewarding kids for being individuals and not being afraid to stand up and out from the crowd.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,847 ✭✭✭ Padraig Mor
    Registered User


    Orinoco wrote: »
    Not going to get into the battle of the sexes thing but this is more evidence that insisting on safety gear reduces the number of cyclists and effectively makes the streets more dangerous for everyone.


    Cycling should be seen as natural, normal and practical and something you do in the same clothes you walk about in.
    This is one the tropes that are thrown around by the cyclist lobby. Essentially it boils down to "helmets / hi vis doesn't look cool so we shouldn't have to wear it" - a nonsense reason for not using proven safety gear of course. No different whatsoever from a driver refusing to use a seat belt because it's not 'cool'.

    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Hi Vis vests are the bane of cyclists. They're cycling, not going to a building site. If hi vis is so key to road safety why aren't cars painted with hi viz paint?
    Hi vis (by which I'm presuming you refer to fluorescent jackets etc, rather than reflective gear) uses colour wavelengths which the human eye is most sensitive to - just because some cyclists feel it's uncool doesn't mean it doesn't work. Your car quip is also much beloved of the usual Boards cyclist brigade - a car of course is bigger and faster moving and therefore much more easily discerned by the human brain (which is attuned to movement) and of course the driver is far less vulnerable than a cyclist (especially those who refuse to take responsibility for their own safety by eschewing helmets etc). All cars in the EU are now required to be equipped with daytime running lights which of courses enhances visibility - much like hi vis.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]
    Registered User


    That's completely f-d up to say the least. As a guy, who went to a mixed school, and used to cycle absolutely everywhere with my friends as a teenager, we all used to think it was brilliant when girls cycled. Even going to the park which would be an hour's walk was out of the question for the girls who didn't cycle.

    Now obviously boys in general tend to be more active as teenagers, and that shouldn't necessarily be the case.

    But the result of most of the boys cycling and the girls not, was that the number of places we could go was increased 10 fold.

    Any kid who doesn't cycle is really missing out on a huge opportunity for exploring their local area and beyond.

    Cycling on your own is when these things tend to happen. Like I said, I have met a fair bit of casual harassment running alone, it never happens if I'm out running with my cousin or partner.

    Likewise a few lads out cycling to the park together are pretty safe from this, but girls - and especially girls on their own - I'd say much less so. I think boys may even be more confident in dealing with situations like that when they're teens because they're physically bigger. I'm a sub-5ft adult, it's easy for me to feel physically threatened in a way that most men probably wouldn't really understand (understandably!).

    Though to be fair, I assume helmet hair will put a few girls off even trying.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]
    Registered User


    jimgoose wrote: »
    It would be nice if we could behave decently to each other, including to children and young ladies. This saddens me.

    BUT, most men (like your lovely self) are absolute diamonds. So there's that. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,423 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui
    Registered User


    The anti helmet thing of a lot of cyclists on boards is ridiculous. Australia introduced compulsory helmet wearing and the rate of head injuries declined by almost 70%. Anti-helmeters are thick, and even thicker after they get their deserved head injury.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,143 ✭✭✭✭ jimgoose
    Registered User


    Candie wrote: »
    BUT, most men (like your lovely self) are absolute diamonds. So there's that. :)

    Aww! Bear-cuddles! :D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,355 ✭✭✭✭ Ush1
    Registered User


    seamus wrote: »
    It can be discouraged.

    Education can take many forms. It doesn't necessarily have to be sitting someone down in a classroom and telling them something is wrong. It can be getting sh1t from your mates when you say something horrible.

    In this case, if someone makes a comment about a woman and turns around for approval from their mates only to be met with disgusted faces...that's education.

    And that involves encouraging kids to speak out when they see disrespectful behaviour from their peers, and rewarding and celebrating it.

    Where in the past there was always a hevay focus on "going along with the crowd", rewarding kids for being team players and punishing individuality, now we're moving towards a model of rewarding kids for being individuals and not being afraid to stand up and out from the crowd.

    This sounds like something akin to the Grange Hill kids singing "just say no".

    You're always going to have feral kids who have feral parents who do feral stuff. They like to do things because they're bad and not supposed to.


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