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Girls don't cycle! Guess whos fault it is?
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Guy Person wrote: »This thread will go on for a good while yet I reckon. It has too many After Hours/IMHO ingredients for it to die out this soon. Also one particular poster has shown up who will argue the minutiae of topics for months on end and enough people will respond to him to keep it going.
Chin up cnocbui, a lot more arguing still to come
do actually make any contributions at all apart from trying to derail threads you deem to be wrongthink?0 -
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It was actually a quote from Eldridge Cleaver.
But thanks for the reminder of how the establishment in the UK worked hard to undermine any hint of left wing thinking in the 70s. It worked too.Sittingpretty wrote: »I’ll be hung out to dry for this but sure isn’t everything men’s fault now? Isn’t it up to men to fix every societal wrong that they are responsible for.
This third wave feminism nonsense is far too happy to firmly place women into victim hood.
Such a nonsense article. How many men (even the oaf ones) would risk wolf whistling a teenage girl on a bike these days? Very few I’d wager because they know before the whistle is done they’ll be on Facebook and vigilantes will be at their door.
The lack of young female cyclists I’d expect is far more to do with having to wear safety gear, their parents not allowing them because it’s not safe because our roads are not suitable for the most part for cyclists and thirdly they’re teenagers, most are far too lazy to hop up on their bikes in the rain when they can be carted to school in the comfort of the family car while retaining their polished brows and no helmet hair.
TLDR: It’s not men’s fault.
Did you actually watch the RTE report and listen to the girls themselves talking about their experiences? Are you suggesting that the group of girls are all liars?
A good few seem to have embraced it in Galway, when given the right supports.is_that_so wrote: »On the face of it I see very few girls at primary level on bikes anyway, aside from very small ones, so is it really an activity that girls embrace for a young age?
The issue isn't whether you cat call women. The issue is whether women get cat called. Based on the feedback from the schoolgirl cyclists, these problems still exist. And you're planning on enabling it and blaming the victims for not being tough - classy work.Church on Tuesday wrote: »Not really. Tastes changed. Stereotypes still exist in entertainment today.
Studios cottoned on to that fact fairly quickly back in the day and then followed suit.
I don't have any daughters, sisters, or nieces and even if I did, I wouldn't feel any need to 'change'. I don't cat call women because I'm not some thirsty cretin.
What I would say to any daughter that I may have in the future is that there are any amounts of ****ty people out there (both sexes) who will try to get a rise out of you and that it is always important to rise above that ****e with dignity. By doing so I'd imagine you are teaching your child some resilience which will be essential to their overall development and survival into adult years.
You can educate in schools and collages all you want but ****ty human behaviors have always been here and they will never go away.
Cycling to school isn't a sport, like swimming or tennis. It's cycling to school - a normal daily activity. Again, have a listen to the words of the schoolgirls in the RTE clip and tell again that the problem is that the guys who harassed them weren't hot enough.gormdubhgorm wrote: »But sure with this logic it would only take one of two people to be 'harassed' during any everyday activity.
Or if women girls have body image issues they don't engage in activities etc
Swimming -
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11378695/Body-image-worries-make-half-a-million-women-give-up-swimming.html
Tennis -
https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/07/beauty-standards-and-tennis-players-women-still-aren-t-supposed-to-look-strong.html
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/14/serena-williams-female-athletes-femininity-police
When you contrast how men and women in general view themselves most women view themselves as overweight, most men view themselves as normal weight
https://jeatdisord.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40337-017-0163-1
I feel that the problem is the mindset of many women or girls they are very insecure in themselves. Have thin-skins whereas a man would brush off insults for the most part, or laugh it off.
However I notice these days this attitude 'of poor me' has even permeated into some of those males in thier 20's and early 30's who like to tell the world that they are 'in a bad place' etc no matter how minor. And build it up into something major.
To make the whole thing into a harassing women angle is odd to me.
Anyone can be harassed regardless of gender, colour and sexual preference etc - anywhere. You would swear there are gangs of men waiting for a chance to shout abuse girls on bikes at every opportunity
Let's be honest here there is a double standards with many women it is often joked by women that if a 'hot guy' chats up a woman she views it as flirting.
If to put it politely 'less than hot guy' chats up a woman it can be viewed as harassment.
The real problem to me is that women seem to be struggling for a 'battle' to fight these days so have to invent a 'cause' however minimal. So we get silly articles littered with contradictions all over the place like the OP mentioned.
Self image - being more interested in how they look on the bicycle/not stylish or whether they might look bit sweaty.
It is far easier for women or girls to blame another group 'men', rather then look at thier own mindset which is at the root of the issue.
Yet these are the same women and girls who get drawn into a competitive social media (between each other) looking for likes and comments on instragram and facebook posts. With photo filters and so on adding to the fakery of it all.0 -
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AndrewJRenko wrote: »It was actually a quote from Eldridge Cleaver.
Did you actually watch the RTE report and listen to the girls themselves talking about their experiences? Are you suggesting that the group of girls are all liars?
Hi Andrew!
I wondered how long it would take you to saddle and mount the high horse.
Yes I did see the report. Does being that patronising come naturally? or do you receive ongoing training to keep yourself tip top of the leaderboard?
I have teens myself Andrew, girls and boys, and I wouldn’t exactly be calling pandemic levels of teenage girl on bike harassment because 4 teen girls on the news said so.0 -
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AndrewJRenko wrote: »It was actually a quote from Eldridge Cleaver.
But thanks for the reminder of how the establishment in the UK worked hard to undermine any hint of left wing thinking in the 70s. It worked too.
Did you actually watch the RTE report and listen to the girls themselves talking about their experiences? Are you suggesting that the group of girls are all liars?
A good few seem to have embraced it in Galway, when given the right supports.
The issue isn't whether you cat call women. The issue is whether women get cat called. Based on the feedback from the schoolgirl cyclists, these problems still exist. And you're planning on enabling it and blaming the victims for not being tough - classy work.
Cycling to school isn't a sport, like swimming or tennis. It's cycling to school - a normal daily activity. Again, have a listen to the words of the schoolgirls in the RTE clip and tell again that the problem is that the guys who harassed them weren't hot enough.
I'm a total bastard Andrew what can I say?0 -
Sittingpretty wrote: »Hi Andrew!
I wondered how long it would take you to saddle and mount the high horse.
Yes I did see the report. Does being that patronising come naturally? or do you receive ongoing training to keep yourself tip top of the leaderboard?
I have teens myself Andrew, girls and boys, and I wouldn’t exactly be calling pandemic levels of teenage girl on bike harassment because 4 teen girls on the news said so.
They didn't say it was 'pandemic'. They said it happens often enough to put them off cycling.
I'm a bit unclear on your position - are you saying they are liars?
You could say something constructive, something that might take us towards a solution maybe?Church on Tuesday wrote: »I'm a total bastard Andrew what can I say?0 -
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Actually while I'm thinking back; of my peers pretty much all of the boys rode bikes, very few of the girls. Many got their "first bike" and learned to ride, but seemed to drop it soon after and I knew none who cycled in their teens. I remember going over to the local girls school for some joint project or other and noticed how tiny their bike shed area was compared to the boys school I went to. It was the era of Sean Kelly and the like and we were all mad into bikes so we'd always be checking out bikes. Tiny sample group of course, but it would be interesting to see the stats on the sales of boys/girls bikes(which would have been easier to do in the past I imagine as they were more gendered?). Now among adults that difference is much lesser with more women cycling for commuting and fitness/fun, but in school years it was and seems still has a gender bias.
I'm a bit pushed for time, so I'll focus on the main issue. If you look at the Census data, we now have about 1/3rd of the number of secondary school boys that we did in 1981. We have about 1/20 of the number of secondary school girls that we did in 1981.
We've driven the girls off the road, one way or other.
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Aside/ Spot the point when Sean Kelly and Stephen Roche were wowing the world cycling stage.AndrewJRenko wrote: »I'm a bit pushed for time, so I'll focus on the main issue. If you look at the Census data, we now have about 1/3rd of the number of secondary school boys that we did in 1981. We have about 1/20 of the number of secondary school girls that we did in 1981.
We've driven the girls off the road, one way or other.
And I would say "driven" is a large part of it. Both are more likely to be driven these days. Another thing to consider is that I think we would generally agree that we're a more gender equal and gender aware society these days? And that in the past we weren't. Yet in the years when young girls were burying babies in Kerry fields, the laundries weren't cold in memory and far more casual sexism was writ large in the media there was a way higher percentage of girls cycling to schools. One would assume that it would be more today.Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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beggars_bush wrote: »Have a changing room in the schools so cyclists can change out of sweaty gear.
Same for all workplaces with 10+ employees
Might help females to cycle to work
As for verbal and physical abuse while out cycling, it's just disgusting
I cannot cycle to work as there is no proper facility to change and we've one unisex toilet
Why don't you have a word with management if you want improvement. In other work places they even have showers.
At the same time though I do feel you are making a mountain out a molehill.
That Unisex toilet has cubicles I assume?
You can go into the cubicle and change problem solved - there is your workaround.
On yer bike!
There are already changing rooms in schools they could easily be used by cyclists so no excuse there.
To me there is no real need to have all these new separate areas placing prohibitive costs, on already financially stressed schools.Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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Aside/ Spot the point when Sean Kelly and Stephen Roche were wowing the world cycling stage.
And I would say "driven" is a large part of it. Both are more likely to be driven these days. Another thing to consider is that I think we would generally agree that we're a more gender equal and gender aware society these days? And that in the past we weren't. Yet in the years when young girls were burying babies in Kerry fields, the laundries weren't cold in memory and far more casual sexism was writ large in the media there was a way higher percentage of girls cycling to schools. One would assume that it would be more today.
I agree - the 'driven' is almost certainly a big part of it. More households have two or more cars. More households have two parents working. Our society has got more and more car-centric, with minimal consideration of cycling in general planning, and zero consideration when planning schools.
Aside: any idea why the graphic that I included in my post has disappeared?beggars_bush wrote: »Have a changing room in the schools so cyclists can change out of sweaty gear.
Same for all workplaces with 10+ employees
Might help females to cycle to work
As for verbal and physical abuse while out cycling, it's just disgusting
I cannot cycle to work as there is no proper facility to change and we've one unisex toilet
We do need decent facilities - lockers, drying space for wet gear, safe and secure lock up area for bikes - and showers if we want to really encourage this. Fingal Co Co were good at mandating this at planning stage for new factories and offices, but I don't think any authority has actually sorted this issue properly, certainly not for schools.silverharp wrote: »i'd suggest that more girls like going to school in groups, and that means walking, bus or Dart. Cycling is anti-social in those terms. it just seems to be one of those situations where every alleged incident is blown up to make it look like kids have to go through a gauntlet a la Holy Cross back in the day in Belfast. And Im saying that as a dad to 2 teenage kids
Do you think the desire to walk to school in groups has grown twenty-fold since 1981?
I sometimes wonder if we put 1/20 of the energy that we put into finding alternative explanations to what the research actually says into finding actual solutions, we'd have these problems sorted long ago.0 -
AndrewJRenko wrote: »
Do you think the desire to walk to school in groups has grown twenty-fold since 1981?
I sometimes wonder if we put 1/20 of the energy that we put into finding alternative explanations to what the research actually says into finding actual solutions, we'd have these problems sorted long ago.
The Dart didnt exist in 1981 , lots of things are different , traffic is higher. i'd be more nervous of my kids cycling to school then my parents would have been about me. mobile phones didnt exist and you cant use them cycling. More kid are dropped off at school by car. A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer
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magicbastarder wrote: »not sure if you read the post, but it was basically saying that lights > hi vis.
your 'to say otherwise' comment suggests you missed that bit.
Correct yeah, kind of ironic!
Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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I find it difficult to care about cyclists' well being when so many of them seem to care little about their own well being.
Lol, very cold blooded statement but accurate these days worth bearing in mind it's the motorist who's most likely to do the damage, not the cyclist, whether they're in the right or wrong makes little difference afterwards.
MasteryDarts Ireland - Master your game!
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