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Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

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    #6092
    dastardly00
    Registered Users Posts: 13,323 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00


    BloodyBill wrote: »
    Haha..that's hilarious. They still have to be able to pull off the look though.. Lee Chin wears a size 'S' and is actually sewn into it by Davy personally beforehand in the physio room before the game..Davy tends to let the hands wander I hear aswell..Tipp wear a size 'M' but with a specially designed baggy torso below the chest to cover the belly.

    Regarding the bit in bold... WTF?? :confused:


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    #6093
    BloodyBill
    Registered Users Posts: 957 ✭✭✭BloodyBill


    Mankbag wrote: »
    What absolute nonsense.

    The Leinster hurling championship has taken over from the Leinster football championship as the main source of gate income from the Leinster Council. Parnell Park had full houses for Wexford and Galway. Nowlan Park had a huge crowd for Galway. Wexford Park was sold out for Kilkenny. The Leinster final had an attendance of 55,000 or so.

    The Leinster hurling championship has never been more attractive. Try again.

    Do you actually know the figures? 237,000 attended Munster round Robin games ,up 10%. 92,386 attended the Leinster round Robin a 14,000 drop. Parnell park has a capacity of about 13,000 so to sell that out wouldn't be amazing. Wexford park is 25,000 and it wasnt sold out for the Kilkenny game.


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    #6094
    blackwave
    Registered Users Posts: 820 ✭✭✭blackwave


    I see Michael fennelly has been announced as the new senior Offaly manager. I wish him all the best and hope it works out for him!


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    #6095
    sportsmaddad
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭sportsmaddad


    On the topic of county team resources etc:

    Could anyone make a stab at a list of the supposed 27 members of the Tipp backroom team?
    And their roles?
    (or is this info online somewhere?)

    A couple have been mentioned here, but it'd be interesting to see the full list and compare with KK, and other counties.

    And on the subject of funding, I'd take some of those published County Board spending reports with a grain of salt. Especially in those counties with a 'Sugar Daddy' type sponsor. I bet they're funding a lot of these professionals directly.


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    #6096
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    How on earth does a county fund a backroom staff of 27? Isn't it meant to be an amateur sport?


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    #6097
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    sportsmaddad wrote: »
    On the topic of county team resources etc:

    Could anyone make a stab at a list of the supposed 27 members of the Tipp backroom team?
    And their roles?
    (or is this info online somewhere?)

    A couple have been mentioned here, but it'd be interesting to see the full list and compare with KK, and other counties.

    And on the subject of funding, I'd take some of those published County Board spending reports with a grain of salt. Especially in those counties with a 'Sugar Daddy' type sponsor. I bet they're funding a lot of these professionals directly.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipperary_senior_hurling_team_season_2019#2019_senior_hurling_management_team
    Is only place i could find apart from a tipperarylive.ie article which is behind paywall.
    holyhead wrote: »
    How on earth does a county fund a backroom staff of 27? Isn't it meant to be an amateur sport?
    Many counties would have same or there abouts if you include the docs, physios, video analysts on top of the coaches for the actual hurling.


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    #6098
    Boom__Boom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,104 ✭✭✭Boom__Boom


    sportsmaddad wrote: »
    On the topic of county team resources etc:

    Could anyone make a stab at a list of the supposed 27 members of the Tipp backroom team?
    And their roles?
    (or is this info online somewhere?)

    A couple have been mentioned here, but it'd be interesting to see the full list and compare with KK, and other counties.

    And on the subject of funding, I'd take some of those published County Board spending reports with a grain of salt. Especially in those counties with a 'Sugar Daddy' type sponsor. I bet they're funding a lot of these professionals directly.

    Senior hurling manager Liam Sheedy has built a terrific 27-man support structure around the Tipperary panel of players. Indeed, an army of experts have catered for the players' every need this season. So, here is a list of the Premier County management team which we dearly hope can help deliver the Liam MacCarthy Cup when Tipp take on Kilkenny in the All-Ireland Senior Hurling Championship final on Sunday, August 18.

    2019 Tipperary Senior Hurling Management Team

    Manager
    Liam Sheedy (Portroe)

    Coach-Selectors
    Tommy Dunne (Toomevara)
    Darragh Egan (Kiladangan)

    Additional Coaches
    Eamonn O'Shea (Kilruane MacDonagh's)
    Cormac McGrath (Ballinahinch)
    Eoin Kelly (Mullinahone)

    Goalkeeping Coach
    Darren Gleeson (Portroe)

    Strength & Conditioning Coaches
    Caibre Ó Caireallain (Antrim)
    Diarmaid Carr (Golden-Kilfeacle)

    Nutritionist
    Gary Sweeney (Dublin)

    Performance Analysis
    Damien Young (Drom & Inch)
    Finn Briody (Holycross-Ballycahill)
    Seán Flynn (Burgess)
    Ray Boyne (Dublin)
    Conor Boyne (Dublin)
    Darragh Boyne (Dublin)

    Logistics Manager
    Liam O'Shea (Kilruane MacDonagh's)

    Kitmen
    Brian Stakelum (Thurles Sarsfields)
    John Sheedy (Portroe)

    Doctor
    Brendan Murphy (Offaly)

    Physiotherapist
    Paddy O'Brien (Toomevara)

    Masseurs
    Mick Clohessy (Borris-Ileigh)
    Declan Maher (Borris-Ileigh)

    Team Liaison Officer
    John Smith (Thurles Sarsfields)

    This article has the Tipp back-room team.

    It's paywalled now

    tipperarylive.ie/news/sport/436763/here-is-the-27-man-management-team-which-is-working-to-cater-for-the-tipperary-players-every-need.html?fbclid=IwAR1iPK7YfKu0ZAklpe9pDaxOACtqhHDIH1c978H9PmAE3ySN7SS3MT2u78Q


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    #6099
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipperary_senior_hurling_team_season_2019#2019_senior_hurling_management_team
    Is only place i could find apart from a tipperarylive.ie article which is behind paywall.
    Many counties would have same or there abouts if you include the docs, physios, video analysts on top of the coaches for the actual hurling.

    It's not a pop at Tipperary just staggered by the number of backroom people involved.


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    #6100
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    holyhead wrote: »
    It's not a pop at Tipperary just staggered by the number of backroom people involved.
    Didnt think you were having a pop.
    Is it really that surprising though. Take into account all the physios, docs etc needed and then coaches and then additional people like video/performance staff and the numbers quickly go up


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    #6101
    tbiggertycome
    Registered Users Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭tbiggertycome


    Kilkenny back room team from memory
    Manager
    Brian Cody

    Selectors
    Derek Lyng
    James McGarry

    S&C
    Michael Dempsey

    Doctor
    Tadhg Crowley

    Physio
    Kevin Curran
    John Kearns
    Neal Byrne
    Alison Holmes

    Video analysis
    2 Monaghan sister that went to Carlow IT

    Nutritionist
    Noreen Roche

    Kitman
    Rackard Cody

    So a backroom of 13 then unless anyone knows who I'm missing, that's it as far as I'm aware. I know for a fact the first four don't receive a penny other than expenses which are minimal. I assume Doc, Nutritionist and Physio's all being paid. Video analysis girls too. I assume Rackard is employed by the Co Board but I don't know.


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    #6102
    D9Male
    Registered Users Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭D9Male


    The Tipp sprint coach isn't on the Premier list above.


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    #6103
    greenspurs
    Registered Users Posts: 10,292 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Didnt think you were having a pop.
    Is it really that surprising though. Take into account all the physios, docs etc needed and then coaches and then additional people like video/performance staff and the numbers quickly go up

    I mentioned this last year, after I was at a senior camogie match that involved Dublin.
    They had about 12 on the sideline, using video cameras, ipads, notebooks etc.. Crazy stuff.

    Also , mentioned at the same match, the amount of 'maor's and water bottle carriers invading the pitch whenever there was a free or a player down... its a fecking epidemic now !
    Was at the clubs minor championship the other night , and it was the same ! Underage players with water bottles for the Minors on the pitch, must have been about 6 boys&girls running on !!!
    Stupidity !:rolleyes:
    247469249_2017413731748359_7675802031635703098_n.jpg

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



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    #6104
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    Has all this 'professionalism' made hurling a more/less entertaining spectacle?


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    #6105
    Cornerback1
    Registered Users Posts: 931 ✭✭✭Cornerback1


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Didnt think you were having a pop.
    Is it really that surprising though. Take into account all the physios, docs etc needed and then coaches and then additional people like video/performance staff and the numbers quickly go up

    I heard on one of them podcasts that they have 2 buses - one for the players and one for the management. If these numbers stack up, then it's probably true.

    On an aside, with numbers like that on a practical side, where do they all go. Surely there's not enough room in a changing room. Or do they all just go to training and only the key people go to matches?

    The way it's going at GAA inter-county level now is crazy. Started by the Dubs, then everyone follows. It's like other counties need to do this to be successful as they see this as the way to go. It'll be worse next year and it's going to put smaller counties in bother re: money. On the other hand, players will say, ah, we don't have a professional set-up, like county X, Y or Z, so I'll not be playing this year.

    It's like American football now with offensive coaches and defensive coaches etc.

    Where will it stop?
    Will it stop?
    More importantly, does the GAA at the highest level want it to stop?


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    #6106
    greenspurs
    Registered Users Posts: 10,292 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    holyhead wrote: »
    Has all this 'professionalism' made hurling a more/less entertaining spectacle?

    Depends on how you define "entertaining" ?

    More scores? yes.
    More scoring from the Half backs? yes

    More clinical defending (second arm etc)? yes
    Very few wides? yes
    Very fit,mobile man mountains playing the game? yes
    Under age players having to use S&C? yes
    Players that "will have to bulk up"? yes


    So, I don't know. Are all the Yes's above entertaining in a game of hurling?? :rolleyes:
    247469249_2017413731748359_7675802031635703098_n.jpg

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



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    #6107
    Ceist_Beag
    Registered Users Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭Ceist_Beag


    6 performance analysts in the Tipp backroom team :eek:
    Surely there is such a thing as information overload...


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    #6108
    kk.man
    Registered Users Posts: 3,440 ✭✭✭kk.man


    greenspurs wrote: »
    Depends on how you define "entertaining" ?

    More scores? yes.
    More scoring from the Half backs? yes

    More clinical defending (second arm etc)? yes
    Very few wides? yes
    Very fit,mobile man mountains playing the game? yes
    Under age players having to use S&C? yes
    Players that "will have to bulk up"? yes


    So, I don't know. Are all the Yes's above entertaining in a game of hurling?? :rolleyes:

    Excellent post....that's hurling now. I was looking at TG4 GGA Gold the other night. It was the 1996 Leinster Final Offally v Wexford. A classic match in its day but the combination of both teams that day wouldn't live with the top 6 or 7 counties in hurling today.


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    #6109
    bruschi
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    Ceist_Beag wrote: »
    6 performance analysts in the Tipp backroom team :eek:
    Surely there is such a thing as information overload...

    a Father and his 2 sons helping him are three of them. Plus you'd need to know what each of them was doing to say if it was too much or not. Could be one of the software developers who just inputs the video. Could be one who only records games and doesnt do the actual analysis. Ray Boyne has a great reputation and Jim Gavin heaps a lot of praise on him with the work he did with Dublin football over the years.


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    #6110
    bamayang
    Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭bamayang


    holyhead wrote: »
    Has all this 'professionalism' made hurling a more/less entertaining spectacle?

    The three things that have appeared over the last number of years that really really irritate me are:
    - Steps, it really has become a joke. No issue with 7 steps now, 10 probably gets a free. And if you are being fouled or tussling with a player, there is no limit. Just blow the bloody thing and people will have to stop over carrying.

    - Throwing handpasses, its a blight in my opinion. No skill to it whatsoever, any idiot can throw a ball. Takes a bit of talent to handpass a ball acurately to someone. Every second handpass in a close game is a throw these days.

    - Worst of all (for me) is the balancing the ball on the hurl for frees. Lee Chin is brutal for it, I cant think of the others who do it, but its so common now for hurlers to roll/jab the ball onto the hurl and then slowly raise the hurl up to hip level before lobbing the ball into the air. Again it annoys me because its dumbing down a good skill, not everyone can master the free taking process and those who can deserve the plaudits.


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    #6111
    golfball37
    Registered Users Posts: 4,568 ✭✭✭golfball37


    What Limerick and Tipperary are doing is disgusting in an amateur sport. The disconnect between these obscene levels of unnecessary helpers getting paid and someone like me an ordinary club member who does a bit of coaching is staggering. Its not what the GAA ethos is about.


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    #6112
    citykat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭citykat


    holyhead wrote: »
    How on earth does a county fund a backroom staff of 27?

    You could always raffle a horse


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    #6113
    Alonzo Moseley
    Registered Users Posts: 400 ✭✭Alonzo Moseley


    bamayang wrote: »
    The three things that have appeared over the last number of years that really really irritate me are:
    - Steps, it really has become a joke. No issue with 7 steps now, 10 probably gets a free. And if you are being fouled or tussling with a player, there is no limit. Just blow the bloody thing and people will have to stop over carrying.

    - Throwing handpasses, its a blight in my opinion. No skill to it whatsoever, any idiot can throw a ball. Takes a bit of talent to handpass a ball acurately to someone. Every second handpass in a close game is a throw these days.

    - Worst of all (for me) is the balancing the ball on the hurl for frees. Lee Chin is brutal for it, I cant think of the others who do it, but its so common now for hurlers to roll/jab the ball onto the hurl and then slowly raise the hurl up to hip level before lobbing the ball into the air. Again it annoys me because its dumbing down a good skill, not everyone can master the free taking process and those who can deserve the plaudits.

    Absolutely couldn't agree more

    The first two are littering hurling but unfortunately, as they are contributing to the high score spectacles, the will isn't there to police them

    It will get to the stage that you wont be able to get a young lad to willingly play in the backs.
    Related: when you see how easily Lawlor was done for peno in Limerick game, I really don't know how anyone volunteers for Full Back in particular in current game.
    15-20 times a game you will see a player simply run around another player with ball in hand in an arc around the player, a distance of never less than 10 metres.

    I defy anyone to tell me how that can be done by even a big mobile Inter county player when even Usain Bolt needs 4.1 strides to cover 10 metres while in full stride, so all these players are fouling

    I'd imagine even a fast inter county player would need at least 7 steps to run around a marker from an almost standing start (field ball uncontested at corner/wing back and scoot around your oncoming marker, lay off hand pass to charging centre back and game on )
    So if you have a bit of speed, you can just run around your marker with ball in hand, a very very simple task.

    The thrown ball is an even bigger curse, oversteps have been with us for decades but throwing the ball is mostly a recent phenomenon.
    I think it is being coached, especially by the best running off the shoulder teams.
    Possibly unfair (but students do spill beans more easily than Inter county lads) but I've heard a few lads say it is "encouraged" at Fitzgibbon level.
    The video boys will have been able to tell management what even 0.1 of a second faster can do in taking out a marker or reducing possibility of handpass being intercepted and most of all, creating the overlap/extra man.

    The game is undoubtedly entertaining right now but some of it is an illusion.
    Brilliantly prepared teams whose back room teams see ways of cultivating edges by exploiting slack refereeing on technical aspects of game.

    Croke Park's fear of course is that if even the above two are absolutely vigorously enforced, it will lead to a litany of frees and reduce entertainment.
    I think a National League campaign where you see 10-12 frees per game for the two offences above would be a small price to pay and teams would quickly stop.

    These two blights are reducing great traditional hurling skills of hooking and blocking as both these fouls usually put hooking out of range.
    You cant hook someone who has just run 10 yards at full speed past you with the ball never leaving his hand

    The huge coaching and anaylsis side of game is primarily there to see how teams can create space for themselves, but some off what is being done to achieve that is undoubtedly identify and then exploit unpoliced rules

    Right, that's my Wed morning rant over, time for a coffee!


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    #6114
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    greenspurs wrote: »
    I mentioned this last year, after I was at a senior camogie match that involved Dublin.
    They had about 12 on the sideline, using video cameras, ipads, notebooks etc.. Crazy stuff.

    Also, mentioned at the same match, the amount of 'maor's and water bottle carriers invading the pitch whenever there was a free or a player down... its a fecking epidemic now!
    Was at the clubs minor championship the other night, and it was the same! Underage players with water bottles for the Minors on the pitch, must have been about 6 boys&girls running on!!!
    Stupidity!:rolleyes:
    I dont see whats wrong with having more people involved with teams. The hours put in by players is being backed up by work at the sidelines.
    holyhead wrote: »
    Has all this 'professionalism' made hurling a more/less entertaining spectacle?
    Not at all. Has hurling not still been an exceptionally entertaining spectacle in recent years even with all changes in how teams are prepared.
    Cornerback1 wrote: »
    I heard on one of them podcasts that they have 2 buses - one for the players and one for the management. If these numbers stack up, then it's probably true.

    On an aside, with numbers like that on a practical side, where do they all go. Surely there's not enough room in a changing room. Or do they all just go to training and only the key people go to matches?

    The way it's going at GAA inter-county level now is crazy. Started by the Dubs, then everyone follows. It's like other counties need to do this to be successful as they see this as the way to go. It'll be worse next year and it's going to put smaller counties in bother re: money. On the other hand, players will say, ah, we don't have a professional set-up, like county X, Y or Z, so I'll not be playing this year.

    It's like American football now with offensive coaches and defensive coaches etc.

    Where will it stop?
    Will it stop?
    More importantly, does the GAA at the highest level want it to stop?
    All wouldnt need to be in the dressing room like you dont see it in many other sports. Certain people have specific roles on match day that means theyre not near dressing room
    Did it really start with Dublin and why should it have to stop? Why would GAA want it to stop?
    Ceist_Beag wrote: »
    6 performance analysts in the Tipp backroom team :eek:
    Surely there is such a thing as information overload...
    Depends on what their roles are. Some most likely are just focusing on specific issues so isnt really info overload.
    golfball37 wrote: »
    What Limerick and Tipperary are doing is disgusting in an amateur sport. The disconnect between these obscene levels of unnecessary helpers getting paid and someone like me an ordinary club member who does a bit of coaching is staggering. Its not what the GAA ethos is about.
    Disgusting?
    And most counties are doing similar in some form or another with getting the best people to prepare county side to try win and you cant compare it to club coaching


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    #6115
    Boom__Boom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,104 ✭✭✭Boom__Boom


    bruschi wrote: »
    a Father and his 2 sons helping him are three of them. Plus you'd need to know what each of them was doing to say if it was too much or not. Could be one of the software developers who just inputs the video. Could be one who only records games and doesnt do the actual analysis. Ray Boyne has a great reputation and Jim Gavin heaps a lot of praise on him with the work he did with Dublin football over the years.

    I'd seen the article on the back-room team of 27 and was listening to Callanan's speech accepting the cup - in the speech Boyne and his two sons were referred as the stats guys whereas the other 3 were referred to as the video analysis guys.

    From my reading of things and an article on Boyne in the last few weeks (think it was the Examiner/ not 100%) it sounded as if Boyne and his sons were simply providing the raw numbers/stats and leaving it for the video analysis guys to interpret the numbers and use it to feed strategy/tactics and coaching.


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    #6116
    iebamm2580
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭iebamm2580


    golfball37 wrote: »
    What Limerick and Tipperary are doing is disgusting in an amateur sport. The disconnect between these obscene levels of unnecessary helpers getting paid and someone like me an ordinary club member who does a bit of coaching is staggering. Its not what the GAA ethos is about.

    Hi golfball, back after my ban, how was your all-ireland final weekend? Hope you will know in future not to question tipps mentality when facing kilkenny in finals, the stats simply do not bear out any indication that tipp buckle under kilkenny pressure like you and other s have suggested. League games do not matter and any knowledgeable hurling man will tell you that.


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    #6117
    Rebelside
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Rebelside


    golfball37 wrote: »
    What Limerick and Tipperary are doing is disgusting in an amateur sport. The disconnect between these obscene levels of unnecessary helpers getting paid and someone like me an ordinary club member who does a bit of coaching is staggering. Its not what the GAA ethos is about.

    Another thing it’s about is promoting hurling & football equally


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    #6118
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    iebamm2580 wrote: »
    ...the stats simply do not bear out any indication that tipp buckle under kilkenny pressure like you and other s have suggested...

    Any indication ? Bit of an exaggeration there.

    You yourself have described 2012 as an 'implosion' and a 'debacle'.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110810439&postcount=7606


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    #6119
    iebamm2580
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭iebamm2580


    I meant finals as in championship finals, tipp lead the way 12-8 and now its 3-3 with codys teams, we are back to the ratio that was there after the 91 final. Golfball was saying kilkenny have a hex on tipp and i think most kilkenny folk will agree that simply is not true. League games do not matter and everybody knows that. TBH the few kilkenny folk i have met since the final have been quite gracious as was i after our defeats. The past decade there have been 30 finals from grades minor up and tipp lead the way with 8 wins from 11, a very good record most would agree.


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    #6120
    iebamm2580
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭iebamm2580


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    Any indication ? Bit of an exaggeration there.

    You yourself have described 2012 as an 'implosion' and a 'debacle'.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110810439&postcount=7606

    And as you can see the context of that post was me saying that tipp always play well in croke park, of the big 3 we have the best win ratio in finals. These are just the facts im pointing out to golfball as his posts were totally dismissive of the actual facts and he was basing all his criticisms of tipp from league games.


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    #6121
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    iebamm2580 wrote: »
    And as you can see the context of that post was me saying that tipp always play well in croke park, of the big 3 we have the best win ratio in finals. These are just the facts im pointing out to golfball as his posts were totally dismissive of the actual facts and he was basing all his criticisms of tipp from league games.

    But 2012 was played in Croke Park, so again, you're wrong to say that Tipp always play well in Croke Park. And contradicting your other post on the subject of 2012.

    Secondly, you claim that golfball is 'totally dismissive of the actual facts, and basing all his criticisms of Tipp from League games'.

    Whereas what he/she actually said was -
    The score in 21 games between Tipp and Kilkenny from 09 to now is KK 15 wins Tipp 3.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110969523&postcount=4167

    21 games since 2009 can not be just League games, so all his criticisms can't be based on what you say they are based on, surely ?

    Apart from that, I recall the well-know quote from John Tennyson in 2006 -

    '... if it was the Mickey Mouse cup out there we'd have won that too. We want to win everything'.

    I absolutely can not agree either with your assertion that for example, the League Final of 2009, nobody cared about it.

    Or for that matter, the All-Ireland semi of 2012.

    Plenty games that were not Championship finals have mattered a great deal over the last decade.


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