Changes in the GAA - super thread

salmocab · 04-08-2019 01:53AM

RoyalCelt wrote: »

I'd only go back to that because we know Dublin win will anyone. Current format is excellent if you remove Dublin

The format is pants it’s nothing to do with Dublin it’s playoffs that afford can teams a chance at failure instead of straight knock out football.

doc_17 · 04-08-2019 09:10AM

RoyalCelt wrote: »

doc_17 wrote: »

Heard Alan Brogan talking during the week and he says that if Throne and Dublin out our weakened sides over the weekend then that’s is for the super 8s. Couldn’t agree more. But if I was Tyrone and Dublin I’d be putting out a weakened team. It would be unfair to expect them to put heart and souls into 2 matches in 8 days when they don’t have to.

Hi he sooner this super 8 bullsh*t comes to an end the better.

What format would be better

The old format. 4 quarter finals between provincial winners and qualifiers. Maybe provincial winners get home advantage. Mayo have lost twice and progress. Donegal lose for the first time last night and are out.

Coillte_Bhoy · 04-08-2019 02:29PM

salmocab wrote: »

The format is pants it’s nothing to do with Dublin it’s playoffs that afford can teams a chance at failure instead of straight knock out football.

Straight knockout football is a ridiculous way to run your main championship and thankfully theres no chance of going back to it

doc_17 · 04-08-2019 07:00PM

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

salmocab wrote: »

The format is pants it’s nothing to do with Dublin it’s playoffs that afford can teams a chance at failure instead of straight knock out football.

Straight knockout football is a ridiculous way to run your main championship and thankfully theres no chance of going back to it

Maybe. But introducing a league when 3/4 of the teams have been eliminated is also fairly ridiculous.

salmocab · 04-08-2019 07:09PM

doc_17 wrote: »

Maybe. But introducing a league when 3/4 of the teams have been eliminated is also fairly ridiculous.

Unfortunately there is no perfect solution, I like knock out football, the back door has been good but it does afford teams a second chance and super 8s seems like a layer too far where teams can get to a semi having lost a couple of games.
I think the biggest sticking point in real change will be the provincials. I understand that for weaker counties it’s the best chance of winning something meaningful and also the tradition and history but I think for there to be the overhaul that’s needed then something has to give.
Personally I’d like to see league standings used in some way for the early rounds and after that open draws. The league is a great competition and it’s ran off too early in poor weather although to go much later really eats into club time even more. A league which also determines the first round followed by a straight knockout would mean every game would be an important one. It would mean less games but probably better ones.
Disclaimer I haven’t fully thought it through just musings.

Coillte_Bhoy · 04-08-2019 07:27PM

doc_17 wrote: »

Maybe. But introducing a league when 3/4 of the teams have been eliminated is also fairly ridiculous.

Agreed

BarryD2 · 04-08-2019 07:31PM

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Straight knockout football is a ridiculous way to run your main championship and thankfully theres no chance of going back to it

Why? Isn't that how it was originally envisaged and played for many years. The league is the league and the AI should be knockout. Maybe the solution is to rebalance the importance of them in peoples minds?

shockframe · 04-08-2019 08:19PM

There is always the danger of dead rubber games but thats not restricted to Gaelic Football.

The World Cup and Champions League throw up several of these scenarios a lot of the time. England v Belgium last year for example.

I wouldnt be in favour of going back to a knockout quarter final format. The last few years there was too many one sided games.

With the Super 8s you get 12 games instead of 4. All with different defensive systems,kickout strategies, attacking plays, good days out like Killarney 3 weeks ago and Castlebar last night.

Even as underwhelming as todays game in Omagh was there was still some passages of good play and the game in Cork was hugely enjoyable.

I'd take the current format for another year or two.

Coillte_Bhoy · 04-08-2019 08:32PM

BarryD2 wrote: »

Why? Isn't that how it was originally envisaged and played for many years. The league is the league and the AI should be knockout. Maybe the solution is to rebalance the importance of them in peoples minds?

Why? Well fora start i can't think of any other team sport that organises its main cship in such a way. Considering the amount of time put in nowadays by players and backroom teams i think its crazy to have half the teams eliminated after one game.

Forge83 · 05-08-2019 11:38AM

Pros and cons of every football system.

How about scrap the league and replace with a provincial league for provincial titles only. Would also cut out long travel in winter which everyone hates.
Also should be a shorter season so more time for club games.

Turn the All Ireland into a World Cup type system with 8 groups of 4 seeded based on previous years rankings. New York v London qualifier game for last spot assuming no Kilkenny.

Winner of each group goes to All Ireland quarters with knockout from there on.
Second place goes to Tier 2 championship quarters, 3rd place Tier 3 and 4th place Tier 4. This means no dead rubber games as there is always a higher Tier quarter final to play for.
Every team is then guaranteed 4 games minimum in the championship.

Groups- Game 1 & 2 home and away. Game 3 neutral(No Croke park allowed)
Allow lower seeded teams to choose which game for home game.

Tier 1 semis and finals in Croke park.
Tier 2/3/4 finals in Croke Park.
All other quarter and semi finals in neutral venues.

I’m sure it’s not perfect but addresses a lot of the current issues.

The Lost Sheep · 05-08-2019 12:08PM

Forge83 wrote: »

Pros and cons of every football system.

How about scrap the league and replace with a provincial league for provincial titles only. Would also cut out long travel in winter which everyone hates.
Also should be a shorter season so more time for club games.

scrapping league isnt and shouldn't be the answer nor should having provincial competition as warm up to all Ireland. Have it as a straight knock out cup but inter twine it between league games.

Turn the All Ireland into a World Cup type system with 8 groups of 4 seeded based on previous years rankings. New York v London qualifier game for last spot assuming no Kilkenny.

Winner of each group goes to All Ireland quarters with knockout from there on.
Second place goes to Tier 2 championship quarters, 3rd place Tier 3 and 4th place Tier 4. This means no dead rubber games as there is always a higher Tier quarter final to play for.
Every team is then guaranteed 4 games minimum in the championship.

wouldnt have 4 tiered knock out competitions it should be 2 or 3 max.

Groups- Game 1 & 2 home and away. Game 3 neutral(No Croke park allowed)
Allow lower seeded teams to choose which game for home game.
Tier 1 semis and finals in Croke park.
Tier 2/3/4 finals in Croke Park.
All other quarter and semi finals in neutral venues.
I’m sure it’s not perfect but addresses a lot of the current issues.

no croke park games shouldn't happen. Just moving Dublin from croke park shouldn't happen unnecessarily.

ArielAtom · 05-08-2019 12:40PM

RoyalCelt wrote: »

I'd only go back to that because we know Dublin win will anyone. Current format is excellent if you remove Dublin

Great idea. Get it before congress🙄

shockframe · 05-08-2019 02:57PM

If they want to get past the dead rubbers format a good way to go would be to follow the Grand Slam of Darts format in the PDC.

There is 8 groups of 4 players and whoever wins the first game faces each other and the losers do likewise. That keeps it interesting for each round.

Be a bit easier when its an individual sport with only one venue but if they put a plan in place in advance it could be managed.

La Bamba · 05-08-2019 11:10PM

Im pretty sure this is more or less similar to a proposal I have seen elsewhere but I feel it is one of the strongest proposals out there:

Scrap preseason tournaments
Run League from Mid January -April
Provincial Championships May-Mid June
All Ireland July August

All Ireland Championship would begin with 4 groups of 8 with teams seeded based on their league standing (i.e 1,2,3 and 4).However the 2 relegated div 1 teams would be second seeds and the two promoted div 2 teams would be first seeds etc through the leagues so, the incentive to perform in the league is very strong.
Furthermore, winning a provincial title would automatically give a team first seed and provincial runners would automatically get second seeding if they were not already seeded so the provincial championship remains incentivised.So if a division 3 team reached a provincial final and lost they would replace the 3rd last team in div 2 as a second seed.

Based upon this years league and provincials here would be a hypothetical group:

Seed 1Meath (Promoted Div 2)
Seed 2 Cork (Provincial Runner Up)
Seed 3 Longford ( Div 3 Side)
Seed 4 Sligo (Relegated Div 3 Side)

Each team would play each other once with the top 2 teams proceeding to a last 16 draw where each of the group winners plays a runner up in a knock out format. While, the bottom 2 teams in each group would play off in a 2nd tier knock out competition. This would provide all players with the oppurtuniry to compete at the top level every year against the best teams.

iluvfatfrogs · 06-08-2019 02:15PM

La Bamba wrote: »

Im pretty sure this is more or less similar to a proposal I have seen elsewhere but I feel it is one of the strongest proposals out there:

Scrap preseason tournaments
Run League from Mid January -April
Provincial Championships May-Mid June
All Ireland July August

All Ireland Championship would begin with 4 groups of 8 with teams seeded based on their league standing (i.e 1,2,3 and 4).However the 2 relegated div 1 teams would be second seeds and the two promoted div 2 teams would be first seeds etc through the leagues so, the incentive to perform in the league is very strong.
Furthermore, winning a provincial title would automatically give a team first seed and provincial runners would automatically get second seeding if they were not already seeded so the provincial championship remains incentivised.So if a division 3 team reached a provincial final and lost they would replace the 3rd last team in div 2 as a second seed.

Based upon this years league and provincials here would be a hypothetical group:

Seed 1Meath (Promoted Div 2)
Seed 2 Cork (Provincial Runner Up)
Seed 3 Longford ( Div 3 Side)
Seed 4 Sligo (Relegated Div 3 Side)

Each team would play each other once with the top 2 teams proceeding to a last 16 draw where each of the group winners plays a runner up in a knock out format. While, the bottom 2 teams in each group would play off in a 2nd tier knock out competition. This would provide all players with the oppurtuniry to compete at the top level every year against the best teams.

So 3 x Group Games..
Last 16
Quarter Final
Semi Final
& Final all in July & August?

La Bamba · 06-08-2019 10:08PM

iluvfatfrogs wrote: »

So 3 x Group Games..
Last 16
Quarter Final
Semi Final
& Final all in July & August?

Yeah you are probably right, having it spread out until mid september ( potentially 7 games in 10 weeks) would be more feasible!

MayoAreMagic · 08-08-2019 01:13PM

ArielAtom wrote: »

Great idea. Get it before congressðŸ™„

I get that you joke, but you know, with the attitude displayed by dubs, where basically they want to be funded as a province but compete as a county, and anyone with an issue with that is anti dublin, biased, jealous, begrudging, etc etc, what other options do the rest of the gaa-folk have? Its complete spoilt brat behaviour and people are foolish to tolorate it.
In truth they are far too soft on dublin, and another organisation would more than likely quietly shh them before directing them off into the railway cup or towards a split, and then get back to the sport.

Gachla · 08-08-2019 03:47PM

Has anyone noticed that the Dublin women's team are dominating as well? Is that just a coincidence?

ciarang85 · 08-08-2019 03:53PM

Gachla wrote: »

Has anyone noticed that the Dublin women's team are dominating as well? Is that just a coincidence?

Really?

Since 2005,

Cork ladies won 11 All-Irelands

Dublin ladies won 3 All-Irelands

Dublin dominating?

ToBeFrank123 · 08-08-2019 03:59PM

ciarang85 wrote: »

Really?

Since 2005,

Cork ladies won 11 All-Irelands

Dublin ladies won 3 All-Irelands

Dublin dominating?

You know well what he meant. In recent years. Which they are.

The game against Cork will be interesting. If Dublin beat them comfortably, we could be looking at Dublin dominance for years to come, much like with the mens. Their dominance is beginning to look very like the mens.

Great for Dubs. But for the rest of the game it could be devastating, as you only had to look at the small crowd in Tullamore to see crowds can be weak at ladies football. If its not competitive, people might stay away.

Gachla · 08-08-2019 04:15PM

ciarang85 wrote: »

Really?

Since 2005,

Cork ladies won 11 All-Irelands

Dublin ladies won 3 All-Irelands

Dublin dominating?

How many Leinster championships have Dublin won in a row? Dublin never won an All Ireland before 2010, now they have 3. So is it just a coincidence?

ciarang85 · 08-08-2019 04:24PM

Gachla wrote: »

How many Leinster championships have Dublin won in a row? Dublin never won an All Ireland before 2010, now they have 3. So is it just a coincidence?

How many Munster championships & National Leagues have Cork won in a row since 2005?

I'll give you a clue its 8 & 11

And fairplay to them for it

MayoAreMagic · 08-08-2019 04:25PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

You know well what he meant. In recent years. Which they are.

The game against Cork will be interesting. If Dublin beat them comfortably, we could be looking at Dublin dominance for years to come, much like with the mens. Their dominance is beginning to look very like the mens.

Great for Dubs. But for the rest of the game it could be devastating, as you only had to look at the small crowd in Tullamore to see crowds can be weak at ladies football. If its not competitive, people might stay away.

Is it even great for Dublin? Like nobody really rates the wins, they are completely hollow, and Dublin will forever be remembered as the county that needed the thing to be rigged for them to win something... What good is it to them?

Gachla · 08-08-2019 04:31PM

ciarang85 wrote: »

How many Munster championships & National Leagues have Cork won in a row since 2005?

I'll give you a clue its 8 & 11

And fairplay to them for it

So why are Dublin dominating in ladies football at the same time as they are in mens football? Just a coincidence?

ciarang85 · 08-08-2019 04:31PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Is it even great for Dublin? Like nobody really rates the wins, they are completely hollow, and Dublin will forever be remembered as the county that needed the thing to be rigged for them to win something... What good is it to them?

Still beating that drum?

Must be tired after all these years doing it

ToBeFrank123 · 08-08-2019 04:40PM

ciarang85 wrote: »

How many Munster championships & National Leagues have Cork won in a row since 2005?

I'll give you a clue its 8 & 11

And fairplay to them for it

You've missed the point that Cork had a huge pedigree in Ladies Gaelic football, going back almost two decades.

Dublin did not. Their pedigree is very recent and their progress to the top has been relatively steep and sudden, like a cyclist who came from nowhere to dominate the sport you could say.

ToBeFrank123 · 08-08-2019 04:41PM

Gachla wrote: »

So why are Dublin dominating in ladies football at the same time as they are in mens football? Just a coincidence?

Nope.

But someone will come along to tell us it is and its a golden generation, nothing to see here, Dublin the best volunteers, etc etc.

Lets see how the Cork games goes. If Dublin win well, then I'd fear the future of the ladies game is the same as the mens.

In any case I won't say too much more about it. There's usually one person on here looking to report someone if they veer off the thread topic too much.

Gachla · 08-08-2019 04:47PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Nope.

But someone will come along to tell us it is and its a golden generation, nothing to see here, Dublin the best volunteers, etc etc.

It's all very suspicious. Dublin clubs have won 4 men's All Irelands since 2007, they only won 1 in the 30 years before that. This just a coincidence too?

ToBeFrank123 · 08-08-2019 04:48PM

Gachla wrote: »

It's all very suspicious. Dublin clubs have won 4 All Ireland mens club All Irelands since 2007, they only won 1 in the 30 years before that. This just a coincidence too?

Also the mens U20/21.

ciarang85 · 08-08-2019 04:49PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Also the mens U20/21.

Cork won that last weekend....

Changes in the GAA - super thread

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