Changes in the GAA - super thread

Gachla

blanch152 wrote: »

Makes as much sense as mozarella cheese.

Has money had any influence on Man City moving from mid table to champions?
Has money had any influence on the UK wining 1 gold medal in the 96 Olympics to winning 27 in 2016?
Money is the biggest game changer in sport. Arguing against that makes as much sense as your mozarella cheese argument!

ToBeFrank123

What efforts were put in?

Efforts were put in. Dublin were still a shambles. Bertie then had the bright idea to pump in millions of everyone else's money to "professionalise the setup" (his words) of Dublin GAA. The rest is history. There's no mystery what happened, the central actors including Bertie and GAA administrators have said on numerous occasions what they did.

Gachla

ciarang85 wrote: »

How was it batted away? did you go to school in dublin in the 80's/90's and see the efforts that were put in at school level??

You don't even know what your talking about to be honest...

As I said, Cumann na mBunscoil has been around for over 40 years and it's countrywide. It in no way explains the dramatic rise in standards in Dublin GAA.

ToBeFrank123

Dublin are the Arnold Schwarzenegger/Lance Armstrong/East German female hammer throwers/Casper Semenya of gaelic football all rolled into one!

Its very difficult for other counties to compete with that. And just as all those "sportpersons" labelled their critics as jealous so also do Dublin.

ciarang85

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Dublin are the Arnold Schwarzenegger/Lance Armstrong/East German female hammer throwers/Casper Semenya of gaelic football all rolled into one!

So now your resorting to doping allegations?

Good man ewan mckenna!:D

ToBeFrank123

ciarang85 wrote: »

So now your resorting to doping allegations?

Good man ewan mckenna!:D

Ah the old Ewan McKenna accusation.

Not Ewan, never met the man, although I admire his work in exposing financial doping in a supposedly amateur sport.

salmocab

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Ah the old Ewan McKenna accusation.

Not Ewan, never met the man, although I admire his work in exposing financial doping in a supposedly amateur sport.

Supposedly, so you know counties are paying players do you?

Dr. Bre

What about the big money that was being paid to Mick ODwyer and Paidi OShea as they went from county to county!

ArielAtom

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Dublin are the Arnold Schwarzenegger/Lance Armstrong/East German female hammer throwers/Casper Semenya of gaelic football all rolled into one!

Its very difficult for other counties to compete with that. And just as all those "sportpersons" labelled their critics as jealous so also do Dublin.

And with that post you have zero credibility here.

ToBeFrank123

ArielAtom wrote: »

And with that post you have zero credibility here.

Ah yeh maybe making the link between financial doping and drug doping was a stretch too far.

Both are doping, one is financial, the other drug doping.

Both equally disrupt the playing field. Which is the more serious people will have their own opinions.

ToBeFrank123

Gachla wrote: »

Yes, they lost in 2001, 2003 and 2011. So what have we got on the list.

Dublin Ladies football - From nowhere to dominating.
Dublin u20/21 - From nowhere to dominating
Dublin club football - Huge improvement
Dublin club hurling - Nowhere to actually winning All Ireland's
Dublin minor football - 1st All Ireland since early 80's
Dublin senior football - From competitive to dominant

Hmmmm it really does look suspicious when it's outlined like this. What else will I look up?

That's it in a nutshell.

The benefits of Bertie's millions wouldn't have come through to the u21 or senior grades until about 2010 as that's when the kids who benefitted would have reached those age levels.

Since 2010:
Ladies - 3 AIs. Nothing in the 35 years before.
Mens U21s - 4 AIs since 2010. 1 in the 45 years before
Mens hurlers - 1 league and 1 Leinster - Nothing in almost 50 years before
Mens hurling clubs - 2 AI wins since 2010 - not even a final appearance before then.
Mens senior football - 6 AI wins since 2010 - the same total as for the 47 years before that

It probably gets worse if you look more at Leinster level.

Gachla

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell.

The benefits of Bertie's millions wouldn't have come through to the u21 or senior grades until about 2010 as that's when the kids who benefitted would have reached those age levels.

Since 2010:
Ladies - 3 AIs. Nothing in the 35 years before.
Mens U21s - 4 AIs since 2010. 1 in the 45 years before
Mens hurlers - 1 league and 1 Leinster - Nothing in almost 50 years before
Mens hurling clubs - 2 AI wins since 2010 - not even a final appearance before then.
Mens senior football - 6 AI wins since 2010 - the same total as for the 47 years before that

It probably gets worse if you look more at Leinster level.

Didn't the money start in 2001? Government funding?

ToBeFrank123

salmocab wrote: »

Supposedly, so you know counties are paying players do you?

Which counties are paying players?

You don't need to pay players. If you pay a professional coach at a club who then introduces a professional setup, you end up with virtually professionally trained players and not just a few but every single player in the club.

That's what Bertie had in mind when he said he wanted to "professionalise the setup".

salmocab

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Which counties are paying players?

You don't need to pay players. If you pay a professional coach at a club who then introduces a professional setup, you end up with virtually professionally trained players and not just a few but every single player in the club.

That's what Bertie had in mind when he said he wanted to "professionalise the setup".

You said ‘supposedly amateur sport’ which suggests it’s not.

ToBeFrank123

salmocab wrote: »

You said ‘supposedly amateur sport’ which suggests it’s not.

By and large it is, outside of Dublin, where by and large its professional.

There are very few full time paid coaches at clubs outside Dublin. And its the full time paid club coaches and/or GDO's who determine how many good players come out of the club.

By the time Jim Gavin receives them, they are pretty much the finished article.

Gachla

salmocab wrote: »

You said ‘supposedly amateur sport’ which suggests it’s not.

It is fairly lucrative to play for Dublin. The appearance fees, the free cars, insurance paid for, free meals etc but it's the professional set up that people are talking about. It's not just the large number of paid coaches, there's some highly paid people overseeing it all. Strategic program manager, regional development officers, hurling development officer etc.
That's before we talk about the strength and conditioning coaches, nutritionists, sports science experts, huge line of coaches etc that are available at all age levels. This all costs a lot of money. It's paid off obviously, the increased success across the board is incredible. Is it fair though? Is it right?

ToBeFrank123

Gachla wrote: »

Didn't the money start in 2001? Government funding?

Not entirely sure, I think it began during the Charlie McCreevy era.

Although reading this suggests the funding began when he was minister for finance in the early 90s.

Ahern agreed to fund a coaching revolution in Dublin. Croke Park showed no interest at first. They were focused on the redevelopment of HQ. But eventually GAA bosses, worried about player participation level in the capital, warmed to the idea. The project was introduced on the basis that it was a pilot. If it worked in Dublin, it could be rolled out elsewhere.
"I could bring it through Finance because it involved coaching kids," Ahern explains. "It was school, it was afterschool . . . we had to gear the whole thing back to school because that was the only way I could justify it. I said it would have to be absolutely transparent and public, because I'd get hammered [otherwise], and that's what we did.
"We put it up as a pilot project, and I made a few speeches. I built it into the estimates that it was a pilot that would continue in Dublin, and if other people wanted to add in bits later on, fine, but Dublin would remain, and that's what I did. I did it on the basis that GAA in Dublin wasn't dead but it was weak."
By building the project into the estimates, Ahern ensured that it was set in stone even if he moved out of Finance. Of course, the fact that he went on to be Taoiseach helped too.
Clubs were forced to adhere to strict rules and it took quite some time for the project to build momentum. To Ahern it wasn't rocket science. He spent his holidays in Kerry, where they had been doing all that without State aid for generations. "You have to butter the bread," he says, "before you put the sambo together."

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/bertie-ahern-explains-how-he-helped-finance-the-dublin-gaa-revolution-37366135.html

So there was a first round of funding to Dublin in the early 90s and then in the early 2000s it was really ramped up to the 1.4 million per year. The problem with Bertie was everything was well hidden and only ever came out later at a tribunal or the like.

Whatever about rolling out the 1990s funding elsewhere, there wasn't a hope of rolling out the 1.4million funding to the rest of the country. It would have required tens of millions.

It seems like as long as Bertie was in government either in the 1990s or 2000s, Dublin was significantly looked after.

Fann Linn

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell.

The benefits of Bertie's millions wouldn't have come through to the u21 or senior grades until about 2010 as that's when the kids who benefitted would have reached those age levels.

Since 2010:
Ladies - 3 AIs. Nothing in the 35 years before.
Mens U21s - 4 AIs since 2010. 1 in the 45 years before
Mens hurlers - 1 league and 1 Leinster - Nothing in almost 50 years before
Mens hurling clubs - 2 AI wins since 2010 - not even a final appearance before then.
Mens senior football - 6 AI wins since 2010 - the same total as for the 47 years before that

It probably gets worse if you look more at Leinster level.

Enda preferred to spend his allocation on his local cycling club.Ye can't have it both ways!

ToBeFrank123

Fann Linn wrote: »

Enda preferred to spend his allocation on his local cycling club.Ye can't have it both ways!

At least you admit Bertie sent huge amounts of money to Dublin GAA. Very honest of you.

How much did Enda allocate as a matter of interest? 1.4 million a year by any chance?

Beechwoodspark

The MAIN THING with Dublin gaa is take a huge decrease of funding off them in line with the population of each county.

Let’s see how the dubs do then ?

Beechwoodspark

Dr. Bre wrote: »

What about the big money that was being paid to Mick ODwyer and Paidi OShea as they went from county to county!

Peanuts compared to the financial doping Dublin is engaged in

Not even dry roasted !

Bonniedog

When all the sleeveen bullsh1t is pulled away, the insinuation is that Dublin players are being paid and are taking PEDs.

Excpet none of them have the balls to come out and make the claim up front.

Fann Linn

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

At least you admit Bertie sent huge amounts of money to Dublin GAA. Very honest of you.

How much did Enda allocate as a matter of interest? 1.4 million a year by any chance?

Just casting in here every few days Frank just to make sure you're still biting. Will you and Beechy be protesting tomorrow on Jones road?

ToBeFrank123

Bonniedog wrote: »

When all the sleeveen bullsh1t is pulled away, the insinuation is that Dublin players are being paid and are taking PEDs.

Excpet none of them have the balls to come out and make the claim up front.

No-one made that allegation.

They did allege Dublin was financially doped and in time became a financially doped Frankenstein competing against counties with much less development funds.

ToBeFrank123

Fann Linn wrote: »

Just casting in here every few days Frank just to make sure you're still biting. Will you and Beechy be protesting tomorrow on Jones road?

Welcome back Fann. See you in a few days.

Downlinz

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell.

The benefits of Bertie's millions wouldn't have come through to the u21 or senior grades until about 2010 as that's when the kids who benefitted would have reached those age levels.

Since 2010:
Ladies - 3 AIs. Nothing in the 35 years before.
Mens U21s - 4 AIs since 2010. 1 in the 45 years before
Mens hurlers - 1 league and 1 Leinster - Nothing in almost 50 years before
Mens hurling clubs - 2 AI wins since 2010 - not even a final appearance before then.
Mens senior football - 6 AI wins since 2010 - the same total as for the 47 years before that

It probably gets worse if you look more at Leinster level.

Incredible seeing the result of financial doping when listed like that. How can any of those teams feel any sort of satisfaction knowing their "achievements" were entirely because of money?

ciarang85

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

No-one made that allegation.

Your bff gachla did earlier

May have been deleted since

ToBeFrank123

ciarang85 wrote: »

Your bff gachla did earlier

I think he said that Dublin players are well rewarded with appearance money, sponsorship, free cars etc. No mystery about that. Bernard Brogan has been flogging everything on TV in recent years. Players from other counties have too.

But players paid directly by the county board to play for Dublin? Not sure he made that allegation.

ciarang85

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I think he said that Dublin players are well rewarded with appearance money, sponsorship, free cars etc. No mystery about that. Bernard Brogan has been flogging everything on TV in recent years. Players from other counties have too.

But players paid directly by the county board to play for Dublin? Not sure he made that allegation.

And as I said that would be a very inefficient use of resources when you could pay a professional full time GDO to train up players and coaches.

A paid GDO is of far more use to a county like Dublin than a directly paid player.

No Franky boy it was about Arnold Schwarzenegger, east German women's hammer team blah blah blah all on drugs same as the dubs apparently, that's what ye resort too..

ToBeFrank123

ciarang85 wrote: »

No Franky boy it was about Arnold Schwarzenegger, east German women's hammer team blah blah blah all on drugs same as the dubs apparently, that's what ye resort too..

Didn't say the Dubs were on drugs. I said the advantages Dublin gained in recent years was akin to the advantanages by those in terms of it not being a level playing field.

I've also used the man city and psg comparison too.

Semenya isn't on drugs by the way.

You don't have to be on drugs to enjoy an unfair advantage.

Glad to have cleared that up! And that's me out for tonight.