Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

d8491prj5boyvg · 27-07-2019 03:13PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I liked the fact that ferrari wasn't involved. It's the worst team for talking freely to the media and the whole charm of the show way the fact that it wasnt polished and manicured by the PR people.

I know it's not a popular opinion but I see ferrari as the vestigial organ in f1. It must be the worst value for money team on the grid over the last decade and still it thrives because it's able to coast on reputation and VETO any rule changes that don't suit it.

I fear the only way it would agree to take part in season 2 is if it gets to stage manage its inputs -and maybe the overall content and contributions by other teams.

F1 should cut the cord to ferrari and give them an ultimatum. Behave like a normal team or go fly a kite.

Agree 100%. Everyone thinks F1 needs Ferrari. F1 would be fine without Ferrari and anyway, Ferrari need F1 more. If pushed, they would tow the line. They are the spoilt child of the F1 family, stomping their feet and getting special treatment while not pulling their weight.

El_Duderino 09 · 27-07-2019 09:59PM

Payton Low Corkscrew wrote: »

Agree 100%. Everyone thinks F1 needs Ferrari. F1 would be fine without Ferrari and anyway, Ferrari need F1 more. If pushed, they would tow the line. They are the spoilt child of the F1 family, stomping their feet and getting special treatment while not pulling their weight.

It's one of the ways F1 is hamstrung by tradition. F1 "has" to do so many things that it's left with fewer options. F1 has to have Ferrari, has to have a German, Italian, British, Monacan GP.

Ferrari expects to get paid just for showing up, meanwhile much better value teams fight for scraps. I'd be fine if F1 gave Ferrari a choice between getting the normal terms for any team or leave.

Cork Trucker · 27-07-2019 10:02PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It's one of the ways F1 is hamstrung by tradition. F1 "has" to do so many things that it's left with fewer options. F1 has to have Ferrari, has to have a German, Italian, British, Monacan GP.

Ferrari expects to get paid just for showing up, meanwhile much better value teams fight for scraps. I'd be fine if F1 gave Ferrari a choice between getting the normal terms for any team or leave.

I was more upset at the original Lotus team going to the wall in 1994 than i would be now if Ferrari quit.

El_Duderino 09 · 28-07-2019 07:08PM

Sitting down to watch the highlights on C4. Why does Jones do the silly little skits? Everything he says is a scripted joke. Can't they just give straight coverage and analysis? Shorten the show if necessary but cut the terrible skits.

cherryghost · 28-07-2019 08:12PM

Karl Wendliger was vastly underrated as a driver. He had some serious speed in underpowered cars.

Cork Trucker · 28-07-2019 09:08PM

cherryghost wrote: »

Karl Wendliger was vastly underrated as a driver. He had some serious speed in underpowered cars.

He was never the same post Monaco 1994. Peter Sauber tried as best as he could with him but he never regained the form he had, clearly the accident did have some lasting impact on him. Mind you i still reckon he was better than his replacement Boullion

cherryghost · 29-07-2019 01:15AM

The past 3 races have been great. Have had everything. Thank god. The season up to Austria had been woeful (Bahrain had glimmers of enjoyment). I wont expect Hock levels next week but hoping the good race trend continues (as Formula E is done-zo)

flazio · 29-07-2019 12:16PM

Bit of a mishap for one of the Renault truck drivers. Hope the driver will be OK.
https://twitter.com/RenaultF1Team/status/1155797750790967297?s=19

Inviere · 29-07-2019 12:33PM

Pictures here - https://www.kisalfold.hu/kepek/atszakitotta_egy_kamion_a_szalagkorlatot_az_m1-esen_gyornel/2064074/3382628/

dublinman1990 · 29-07-2019 02:12PM

Good grief. The driver is very lucky there to escape injury. I hope he recovers soon. Has it been revealed what the contents were inside the trailer?

Adamocovic · 29-07-2019 02:27PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I liked the fact that ferrari wasn't involved. It's the worst team for talking freely to the media and the whole charm of the show way the fact that it wasnt polished and manicured by the PR people.

I know it's not a popular opinion but I see ferrari as the vestigial organ in f1. It must be the worst value for money team on the grid over the last decade and still it thrives because it's able to coast on reputation and VETO any rule changes that don't suit it.

I fear the only way it would agree to take part in season 2 is if it gets to stage manage its inputs -and maybe the overall content and contributions by other teams.

F1 should cut the cord to ferrari and give them an ultimatum. Behave like a normal team or go fly a kite.

This was actually a reason given when asked why Merc's and Ferrari weren't in the first season. They wanted too much control over what is shown and what is not.

I agree regarding a lot, like the veto rule is stupid. I get the spin they say about it being the oldest serving team serving the interests of the teams versus FIA but every team has different interests.

Would say while I want changes I'm not so quick to cut ties or so happy to see Ferrari go. Surprised so many are. I know a lot of it is nostlagia and their history, but I struggle to imagine the sport having the same draw or feeling without them, at least for myself.

Ferrari, McLaren, Williams all the longest serving constructors in the sport currently by some amount are teams I wouldn't want to see leaving F1. The old classics. Of course the sport could move on but despite not being their biggest fan over the last few years I like seeing them in the sport.

If Ferrari were to go I wonder how many fans would follow them. The sea of red replaced by Red Bull or something. What would become of the Tifosi and the atmosphere of the Italian GP?

Of course us and the sport could move on from them but with the 100+ different teams/constructors there has been it's nice to have the history on the track of the longest serving teams. A dream for the revolving door of teams to chase.

El_Duderino 09 · 29-07-2019 04:02PM

Adamocovic wrote: »

If Ferrari were to go I wonder how many fans would follow them. The sea of red replaced by Red Bull or something. What would become of the Tifosi and the atmosphere of the Italian GP?

Of course us and the sport could move on from them but with the 100+ different teams/constructors there has been it's nice to have the history on the track of the longest serving teams. A dream for the revolving door of teams to chase.

At the moment the Dutch might be bigger than the tifosi at European races at least. But thats another story.

I think it's another example of f1 being hostage to tradition. I wonder how the revolving door of failed f1 teams would have been affected by sharing the money more equally instead of giving ferrari a slice off the top. How many rule changes killed small teams because ferrari simply didn't want to adapt and uses its veto.

d8491prj5boyvg · 29-07-2019 04:21PM

Adamocovic wrote: »

Would say while I want changes I'm not so quick to cut ties or so happy to see Ferrari go. Surprised so many are. I know a lot of it is nostlagia and their history, but I struggle to imagine the sport having the same draw or feeling without them, at least for myself.

Nobody wants to see them go, they just don't think they deserve special treatment. And if they left because of not getting their special treatment so be it. I would argue they would not leave. Who'd buy a Ferrari road car without the racing legacy, for example.

Also, to quote Graham Linehan when asked about more fr ted, people think they want more of the same but they don't. They want what they don't know yet. The same for racing. We think we want oceans of prancing horses. But what if the team lineup evolved to something else that we love even more. A new Eddie Jordan on the scene, shaking things up for the little guy? I'd watch that long before red cars (not) winning all round them, throwing strops now and again, getting things their way.

It's human nature to like the familiar. That doesn't mean the familiar is what we like the most.

Adamocovic · 29-07-2019 04:57PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

At the moment the Dutch might be bigger than the tifosi at European races at least. But thats another story.

I think it's another example of f1 being hostage to tradition. I wonder how the revolving door of failed f1 teams would have been affected by sharing the money more equally instead of giving ferrari a slice off the top. How many rule changes killed small teams because ferrari simply didn't want to adapt and uses its veto.

I agree in terms of the control the bigger teams have in terms of the rules and money.

Although Ferrari tend to have the greatest influence it's not just them on their own. The sport is designed for the bigger teams to thrive while the little ones struggle to survive.

And in some races the Dutch definitely have a big presence, will say they are shown more in their striking orange. You'd have thought they outnumbered the Germans last week with the airtime the fans got but according to Brundle there were more Vettel/German Fans there.

It may be similar to the Kimi brigade. Fins used to travel around and make great noise and excitement. Still do but I don't know if they will follow Bottas similarly. Likewise the dutch are here to stay but after Verstappen let's see. Tifosi supporting a team and Italians being mad for motor racing means they have and will outlast a lot of other fans.

Was lucky enough to sit with the Tifosi before in the grandstand. Definitely was a brilliant race weekend! Unfortunately don't think it topped the crazyness of Mugello though in the MotoGP!

Adamocovic · 29-07-2019 05:33PM

Payton Low Corkscrew wrote: »

Nobody wants to see them go, they just don't think they deserve special treatment. And if they left because of not getting their special treatment so be it. I would argue they would not leave. Who'd buy a Ferrari road car without the racing legacy, for example.

Also, to quote Graham Linehan when asked about more fr ted, people think they want more of the same but they don't. They want what they don't know yet. The same for racing. We think we want oceans of prancing horses. But what if the team lineup evolved to something else that we love even more. A new Eddie Jordan on the scene, shaking things up for the little guy? I'd watch that long before red cars (not) winning all round them, throwing strops now and again, getting things their way.

It's human nature to like the familiar. That doesn't mean the familiar is what we like the most.

I agree they should do away with the special treatment for teams and you could be right, who knows unless it happened.

I don't believe they'd ever leave. There's so much benefit for both Ferrari and F1 having them in it. Just in my view there are very little teams left that are ingrained into a nation that I would miss them and I imagine if they did leave it would be a constant question about when they would return. A bad example maybe but like in the NBA with Seattle Sonics becoming OKC. Sure the thunder have a great support but people are constantly looking for the Sonics to return. I'm not even a Sonics fan but would love them back with their history and fan base.

Similarly to McLaren and Williams being British teams, where supporters have followed through many drivers. It's a fan-base I think is becoming more unique in F1 as most follow their favourite driver and don't feel a true connection with the actual team, like Italians do with Ferrari or British with Williams.

I think Renault are looking for this with the French and hope they get it as it's part of the sport which I enjoy.

Just my opinion on it.

d8491prj5boyvg · 30-07-2019 04:52AM

I think the real elephant in the room since Germany is the impact retirements have on races. A corner that spelled retirement after a mistake for many helped make the race.

Should we bring back gravel? Or some way to beach cars? If we are to see more days for the underdog like Germany maybe we should

El_Duderino 09 · 30-07-2019 08:24AM

Payton Low Corkscrew wrote: »

I think the real elephant in the room since Germany is the impact retirements have on races. A corner that spelled retirement after a mistake for many helped make the race.

Should we bring back gravel? Or some way to beach cars? If we are to see more days for the underdog like Germany maybe we should

I was wondering about this and we have to consider the safety car. The safety car robbed us of a battle for the lead in Silverstone. Likewise it created a topsy-turvy Germany.

I'd prefer a run off that destroys the tyres but allows the car to continue running. So if you run wide by more than a few metres, it's an automatic pitstop for tyres.

I wouldn't want to discourage close racing with a car being forced wide resulting in a pitstop so I'd propose a couple of metes of grace, then tyre shredding tarmac.

d8491prj5boyvg · 30-07-2019 10:18AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I was wondering about this and we have to consider the safety car. The safety car robbed us of a battle for the lead in Silverstone. Likewise it created a topsy-turvy Germany.

I'd prefer a run off that destroys the tyres but allows the car to continue running. So if you run wide by more than a few metres, it's an automatic pitstop for tyres.

I wouldn't want to discourage close racing with a car being forced wide resulting in a pitstop so I'd propose a couple of metes of grace, then tyre shredding tarmac.

Yeah, I think the tyre shredding tarmac could be the solution and without the patterns we see at Paul Ricard! And if it avoids too much safety car disruption then it is win-win. I get your point on encouraging wheel to wheel racing but I would be afraid that drivers would just treat it as more track and essentially we are at the same point where there is no danger of going off. The element of danger brings back the feeling that these cars are been driven on the ragged edge.

meeeeh · 30-07-2019 10:32AM

We might just as well starts shooting paint balls randomly at cars.

I'm completely against tyre shredding tarmac. So if someone was pushed of the track by another car they would be punished again by their tyres being destroyed. To make it fair you'd have to punish the other driver with time penalty or whatever and you have complete mess. Less rules and gimmicks it's a solution not another random way too make things more interesting. Another issue is that they should take into consideration also the quality of the track not just how much money can be made from organizers when they are choosing the track. With too narrow focus on short therm profits they could actually loose money long therm.

the_pen_turner · 30-07-2019 10:36AM

meeeeh wrote: »

We might just as well starts shooting paint balls randomly at cars.

I'm completely against tyre shredding tarmac. So if someone was pushed of the track by another car they would be punished again by their tyres being destroyed. To make it fair you'd have to punish the other driver with time penalty or whatever and you have complete mess. Less rules and gimmicks it's a solution not another random way too make things more interesting. Another issue is that they should take into consideration also the quality of the track not just how much money can be made from organizers when they are choosing the track. With too narrow focus on short therm profits they could actually loose money long therm.

thats the other side of the coin. but we need some kind of natural punishment if you go off the track . gravel works great for that but mean you get stuck and have to eb rescued with a safety car aswell. that impacts on other drivers and screws up the race sometimes.

30-07-2019 10:50AM

Skin pan run-offs lads. :P

eviltimeban · 30-07-2019 10:59AM

Why not just go back to gravel traps? They did the job for so many years.

d8491prj5boyvg · 30-07-2019 11:06AM

meeeeh wrote: »

We might just as well starts shooting paint balls randomly at cars.

I'm completely against tyre shredding tarmac. So if someone was pushed of the track by another car they would be punished again by their tyres being destroyed. To make it fair you'd have to punish the other driver with time penalty or whatever and you have complete mess. Less rules and gimmicks it's a solution not another random way too make things more interesting. Another issue is that they should take into consideration also the quality of the track not just how much money can be made from organizers when they are choosing the track. With too narrow focus on short therm profits they could actually loose money long therm.

They wouldn't be pushed off the tarmac in that case. The driver on the outside would back off or the driver on the inside would leave the space. The reason why we see Max-style pushing drivers off is because there is the safety net of tarmac. It didn't happen in Jackie Stewart's time because people died. It didn't happen in Schumacher's time (much) because there was grass and gravel. Maybe we want guys getting pushed off the road, in which case give the leeway. I prefer to give hard constraints and let them work within that as best they can. I also like retirements. Sponsors don't unfortunately.

pjohnson · 30-07-2019 11:10AM

The track has limits for a reason. No issue what so ever enforcing them.

g1983d · 30-07-2019 11:21AM

Payton Low Corkscrew wrote: »

Yeah, I think the tyre shredding tarmac could be the solution and without the patterns we see at Paul Ricard! And if it avoids too much safety car disruption then it is win-win. I get your point on encouraging wheel to wheel racing but I would be afraid that drivers would just treat it as more track and essentially we are at the same point where there is no danger of going off. The element of danger brings back the feeling that these cars are been driven on the ragged edge.

The safety car can spuce things up too, closes up the field so the car out front running away with the race is back in the pack.
If it's near the end of the race it makes the last few laps a sprint.
I'm not a fan of the gimmicks including drs but if they have to be there, then why not something like every car has to change tires within the last 10 laps, that way everyone can go flat out

meeeeh · 30-07-2019 11:26AM

Payton Low Corkscrew wrote: »

They wouldn't be pushed off the tarmac in that case. The driver on the outside would back off or the driver on the inside would leave the space. The reason why we see Max-style pushing drivers off is because there is the safety net of tarmac. It didn't happen in Jackie Stewart's time because people died. It didn't happen in Schumacher's time (much) because there was grass and gravel. Maybe we want guys getting pushed off the road, in which case give the leeway. I prefer to give hard constraints and let them work within that as best they can. I also like retirements. Sponsors don't unfortunately.

Why wouldn't they be pushed off the road. It's the best way to get rid of the competitor. They overtake on the inside, the other person either crashes or also takes the penalty for destroying the tires. It's not like anyone will die if they get off the road so why would they worry if the competitor has to take the scenic route and lose loads of time. Anyway it's just another artificial way to create racing. That used to be preserve of NASCAR.

pjohnson · 30-07-2019 11:30AM

meeeeh wrote: »

Why wouldn't they be pushed off the road. It's the best way to get rid of the competitor. They overtake on the inside, the other person either crashes or also takes the penalty for destroying the tires. It's not like anyone will die if they get off the road so why would they worry if the competitor has to take the scenic route and lose loads of time. Anyway it's just another artificial way to create racing. That used to be preserve of NASCAR.

Its artifical to make the cars stay on the actual track?

meeeeh · 30-07-2019 11:33AM

pjohnson wrote: »

Its artifical to make the cars stay on the actual track?

Cars staying on the actual track is not the issue here. The suggestions here are hoping for more retirements and safety cars to make racing interesting. Nascar in other words.

skipper_G · 30-07-2019 11:46AM

There's no one size fits all approach because tracks are different, they have different corners, with different profiles, that cater for different forms of motorsport. Some places you need a gravel trap some places you need tarmac, some places you need a barrier or a wall. The drag strip tarmac at Hockenheim and the kerbs at the Red Bull Ring both had the same effect, it punished those who got it wrong. Nothing wrong with either of them

skipper_G · 30-07-2019 11:49AM

meeeeh wrote: »

Cars staying on the actual track is not the issue here. The suggestions here are hoping for more retirements and safety cars to make racing interesting. Nascar in other words.

I agree, instead of just enjoying the moment after a great race it seems many people are intent on focusing on stuff that they don't like or something that F1 is missing. I'm not naïve enough to think that F1 is super healthy, but Mario kart track shenanigans and sprinklers and safety cars are not the answer

Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

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