Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

Lot of throw away comments on here as usual, with soft target of Coaching & Games structures etc.,,

While not disputing that there are issues at Coaching & Games level the facts regarding last night's team are quite simple:

- The group of players who are U20 this year |(exclude last year minors ) were particularly weak over the years - it happens in every county.
- This team had a particularly large contingent of Dual Players, which limits the number of training sessions needed to put in to get the best out of a relatively poor squad. Simple you cannot train for football one week and hurling the next with different games plans etc and expect to compete.
- If this was not bad enough our County Board delayed appointing a Management Team and then further limited the already minimal number of times they could get together to save a few bob!!!
- Many of these lads are facing a Munster Football game on Friday night and as soon as the game started to go away from them, focus appeared to turn to Friday night for the majority of these players. This is not a criticism as it is a totally natural reaction - the unfortunate side of having so many dual players and an inept county board which allowed us to have to play two Munster Championship Matches in the space of 4 days - this would not happen in other Munster Counties.
- It is believed that many fringe players who may have been up to the grade did not opt in, based on the perceived weakness of the squad and the fact that they were drawn away to Tipp who are one of the favorites for the All Ireland Add in the approach of our county board as outlined above and you have the recipe for the disaster that we got.

In fairness to Stephen Gough and his team, they were handed a poison bucket (not even a chalice) and were brave enough to step forward put the time and effort in and put their reputations on the line. The next two years should see us have stronger panels and be more competitive, on the assumption that our County Boards gets its act together and allots proper resources to allow our under 20 teams compete properly.

If people are going to start throwing daggers, make sure they are throwing them in the right direction - our County Board are inept at all levels be it in their fund raising efforts, their ability to appoint officers and managers, deal with public relations and put a proper plan in place for the future.

When questioned, their primary defences are that they are only "volunteers" - this is no excuse for ineptness or inability to perform basic duties - most of them at are hanging around the Board now for 15 years plus and if they are not up to it which i believe they are not, it is time to step aside and let someone else have a go

hardybuck wrote: »

While I would be one of the people who'd be deeply concerned about the malaise in Waterford hurling and football structures over the last 15 years or so, Waterford are potentially returning to their 'normal' level after a few exceptional years.

Some Munster U21 Championship results over the years:
2004: Cork 0-20 - 1-8 Waterford
2005: Cork 2-16 - 0-11 Waterford
2006 Cork 3-17 - 2-12 Waterford
2007: Cork 1-20 - 0-10 Waterford (after beating Limerick in semi)
2008: Limerick 2-17 - 1-7 Waterford
2010: Cork 1-16 - 1-3 Waterford
2012: Cork 2-22 - 0-09 Waterford

I could go into more there but I think you get the picture - Waterford regularly get spankings at this level, and often go many years without a win.

Correct, waterford had a good little run at the turn of the decade and the exceptional team that won 2013/2016 all irelands. But the majority of the time underage this is the norm. I think i would right in saying that waterford have only won 3 minor games since the all ireland win in 2013, but i am open to correction there. Waterford havent won a munster minor championship since 2009, even the 2013 lost two games in munster (tipp & limerick) and beat cork after extra time. Again i am open to correction there.

Waterford gaa has been in rot for years and it is only being seen now, as previously stated they had a good period at the turn of the decade. But these teams were an exception to the rule, not the rule. Time for the county board to wakey wakey now.

deiseach wrote: »

While I'm a glass-half-full type when it comes to Waterford hurling - every child of the 80's should be - I'm struggling to see the fourth-worst defeat ever at this level as a case of reversion to the mean.



I'm hoping that those saying this was a young team are correct, which will leave them better placed to have a tilt at it next year. Otherwise, we're in serious trouble.

Your table is missing 2005 there because it appears they lost by 21 points that year.

I think we're splitting hairs here because the average of the ten worst beatings of all time you've pulled out there was just over 19 points where the sample I looked at was nearly 14 points.

The long and short of it is that Waterford are typically very poor at this level. Perhaps made worse by a few of the issues people have noted.

Hearing about the preparation, this U20 management and players were thrown to the wolves by the Waterford county board.

After their minor campaign they needed a really solid build up.

instead they were offered the opposite, written off as a waste of time, money and effort by the county board.

the more i hear i would say fair play to the all involved last night.

Absolute shame on the board!

Stopitwillya wrote: »

Spot on.
Am I right in saying Paddy Joe Ryan's time as chairperson is finished this year.
And Pat Flynn as secretary is finished next year.
Any possible replacements out there.
Change is needed quick.

The kliq will still be there and simply might be just roles reserved

Getting rid of management might be too late by the time of the CB elections

Imo Only thing that could move Fanning on is if the 2019 squad went on strike and refused too take part for the 2020 preparations. We saw what happend in Limerick during the Justin McCarthy saga

Nobody knows about this clear the air meeting after the Limerick game and Paddy Joe coming out saying he saw no problems in the camp

You be thinking twice about renewing ur season ticket tbh

PTH2009 wrote: »

The kliq will still be there and simply might be just roles reserved

Getting rid of management might be too late by the time of the CB elections

Imo Only thing that could move Fanning on is if the 2019 squad went on strike and refused too take part for the 2020 preparations. We saw what happend in Limerick during the Justin McCarthy saga

Nobody knows about this clear the air meeting after the Limerick game and Paddy Joe coming out saying he saw no problems in the camp

You be thinking twice about renewing ur season ticket tbh

Do you know, what don't bother renewing your season ticket, nobody will lose sleep if you don't

Good lord, you want a bunch of players that havent won a game in two years to go on strike to get rid of a manager. Are you serious..

Parishman wrote: »

The fact that this panel was only training together since early May says a lot of where we are at.
I was at match last night and the first thing that struck me was the S & C of Tipp lads, we were rolling off them.
The hits we received during the match wore us down. I think given the limited resources the Management team received we were always on a hiding to nothing with very little prep. Fair play to them for taking it on.

Most Under 20 squads around the country have been at it since November.

Best of luck to the footballers on Friday night

But couldn't you make the same argument about the senior hurlers - they have also lacked intensity and physicality?

Is it our psyche here in Waterford that keeps us held back? Maybe we don't have the squad of players we think we have.


Finally finally somebody speaking some sence here...

Waterford havent won an all ireland in 60 odd years, the all ireland hurling competition is effectivetly a 10 team competition and waterford have only been to two finals in that time.

mountgomery burns wrote: »

What is the limit of your ambitions then for the current group of senior players?

Since 2008, we've been in two all Ireland finals, 5 all Ireland semi finals, been in three league finals winning one, contested 4 minor Munster finals (winning one, losing two after a replay), won an all Ireland u21 title, won an all Ireland minor title, won two all Ireland colleges.

The bottom line is, whether we are good enough to win an all Ireland or not this is unprecedented success/competitiveness for Waterford and given most of the players involved in good to strong underage teams since 2009 are now in their prime/peak there is no way the results at senior this year should be accepted.

Buck stops with management, all of them should be removed.

So actually won 1 league, 1 minor munster, 1 minor all ireland and 1 U21 all ireland. Waterford actually lost every other game that you spoke about there and if you follow sport you will know that for one team to lose another team has to win. I am not saying that the current or previous mangement dont shoulder some blame but the simple facts are the players are not as good as in other counties.

hardybuck wrote: »

Yes - seniors got loads of resources, but it didn't seem to matter. Perhaps the county just isn't producing those players at the moment.

Perhaps the county board have also been very prudent with their finances for once. They may have looked at this years hurling team, realised they had no hope of winning anything, and allocated resources accordingly.

The same would be done with football most years - they don't spend money there because they don't think it'd be delivering a return.

i hear what you are saying but it's a slippery slope,



Ah its only a challenge game,
League doesn't matter,
As long as the adult team is going ok,

football doesn't matter,

U20's Hurlers don't matter....


before you know it nothing matters as you are left with nothing.


no wonder no-one wants to take on underage teams in Waterford, you would be better off putting in time with your club.


In this day and age, with the hurling knowledge in the county and for the amount of young lads playing Hurling in Waterford, the preparation for last night games should never happen (never mind the result those can happen).


with the correct resources that panel could have been turned around and given a fair shot - nearly every lad in Waterford has the corrects basics, no excuse for cutting lads off like that

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Indeed, there's a big difference however between winning an all Ireland and fairing worse than Laois and Carlow in the championship (albeit we didn't get the opportunity to play them).

This was the worst campaign I've seen from a Waterford team. And while I might be lucky I'm young enough to say that, that's still 19 championships and it's probably goes back another 5 years to the last time we were as bad. For the talent that is there, it's completely unacceptable and I don't think we should be apathetic about it, rather before anyone talks about root and branch reviews etc this simple fact should be acknowledged.

The majority of waterfords "succsess" or whatever you call it came from beating teams like laois, wexford (who were poor at the time), dublin, offaly and westmeath, in qualifiers.

Waterford havent won a game in the last two championships under two different managers, with 90% of the same players. So if we bring in Brian Cody and his back room team and still dont win a game, will it be his fault?

As I saw last night’s game, Waterford won a fair bit of good ball in the first half, their defence did reasonably well and they got a lot of good possession around midfield. However, they wasted this possession delivering very poor ball into the forwards and especially the extraordinary number of attempted passes that went astray. They also gave away numerous frees with stupid fouls.

In the second half, the gap between the two teams in terms of fitness and physicality was shocking. I would say that ten minutes into the second half most of the Waterford team were out on their feet. You could plainly see the contrast between a county which is serious about developing its underage talent and a county which is, at best, winging it from year to year. It is little wonder that so many players did not make themselves available for selection.

I would not write off last night’s team wholesale, given their lack of preparation and the fact that half of them are doubling up at football. Munster should follow Leinster in playing the under-20 hurling and football at different times of the year.

I thought that Dean Beecher did quite well in the Waterford goal.

deiseach wrote: »

This is a general question rather than specifically directed at Giveitfong. What manner of 'academy' do they have in other counties to bridge the gap between underage and Senior?

Regarding the Limerick academy, see the following links:


https://www.gaa.ie/features/feature/academy-matters-deeply-limerick/


https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/hayes-limerick-system-working-well-36872341.html


It is worth noting that Anthony Daly was full-time director of the Limerick academy for three years. Is it any wonder that they have been so strong at minor and under 21 in recent years?

Waterford are way out of their league in the top division of hurling and should not be in the competition for the McCarthy Cup next year. Looking at what the future holds for us last night I fear we would struggle in the Joe McDonagh cup also

Obi1mikal wrote: »

What do you mean by respect?? I have huge respect for brian cody that is my point, he is the greatest manager of all time and he would struggle to manage them pre madonna's..

So you are happy with last year and the moral victories of nearly beating tipp, the team that got knocked out with Waterford last year. Sure this year they nearly beat Clare the team knocked out with Waterford. Losing by one point and losing by 100 points is all the same.

So no redeeming qualities for 2019, what about the 3 debuts of Lyons, prunty and prendergast..

Need to be striving for alot more every year considering Waterford have one nothing since 2010..

Won a league in 2016 I think it was.... and if we won it this year fellas be trumpeting it from roof tops!