Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

liogairmhordain

Ridiculous that Tom Barron hasn't been taken off with another Munster semi-final to play later in the week

JesusRef

Even after producing some good underage teams we are being cut adrift at senior level in Munster.

What hope have we with nothing coming through?

This Munster round robin could be an absolute disaster for Waterford over the next few years

5948ai

I heard something here about two year plans but by god that was tough viewing this evening!

PTH2009

Disaster of a night

Hard to see a light at the end of the tunnel

munsterlegend

It’s a strong Tipp team to be fair and themselves and Cork are probably a level above. Cork were hammered by Clare a few years ago so things can turn around quickly.

EYEBALLSOUT

There you have it- a 22 point defeat!

Aside from players, mgmt, etc..etc.. we have to look at how these players are being coached. It seems to me that every club is buying into this tippy tappy Hurling to the detriment of being able to win our own ball!!
Waterford this year in Senior Hurling and Ballygunner v Ballyhale this year are proof of what i am saying. We have devised a short cut to try and win games which is most teams plan B.
As a hurling man, who played at a reasonable level for club and county, its sickening to watch the direction Waterford hurling is going.
Time to open our eyes because tonight is not good enough. This is not a pop at the players or mgmt because what happened tonight is endemic of what is going on with Waterford hurling at nearly every level.

Absolutely sickening. Co board are asleep at the wheel. Come in out of the fog!!!

mickmackmcgoo

EYEBALLSOUT wrote:

Absolutely sickening. Co board are asleep at the wheel. Come in out of the fog!!!

Spot on there . Can't blame management tonight they can only pick what's in front of them. Poorly coached players will always be found out despite them giving their all tonight. Sad thing is nothing will change , The board have been inept a long time and lots of clubs are apathetic towards county teams anyway. The club's elect these cretins and the East west thing will never change. Contrast this to our camogie teams who have improved in all aspects over the last few years

mountgomery burns

mullinr2 wrote: »

Ye can hardly call yourselves a dual county either. Ye devote as much time to hurling as Kilkenny does. Shocking year for Waterford

Ah come on there is no comparison between football in Kilkenny and Waterford. James Stephens gave a walkover in a county football semi final 2 years ago, think they had to win one game to get there.

There's at least 30 football clubs in Waterford, about 6 in Kilkenny? Our u20s just beat Clare, our minors had a win a loss and a draw this year in their three games. There's loads wrong with it and it's in a bad place at inter county level, but it is not comparable to Kilkenny who simply have less than zero interest in the sport.

Hurlers are another matter...terrible year

Deisedozzer

Unfortunately this was arguably the most predictable result of the summer from a Waterford hurling perspective. A lot of this team were part of the minor panel in 2017 which was possibly the weakest of the last ten years and a number of that same management team are also involved with the group now.

I have been saying it for the past two years, there are 2-3 basic errors that are being replicated by our teams at all levels which is a huge concern;

1. Aimless hail Mary high balls into small forwards, when we have time on the ball, as our preferred option. Sheer madness

2. No running off the shoulder in the midfield area. Our midfielders seem to be playing like strangers who don't know each other rather than as a unit. We have been cleaned out at midfield in every game this year

3. Bullet passes being played along the ground to teammates. I don't see any other team doing this, it is crazy and I don't know who is behind it. The pressure it puts on the receiving player to have to control and turn in one movement makes no sense. Contrast this with the beautiful passes to hand which Tipp and Limerick favour or even the ball which hops in front of the forward at hand level. If Patrick Curran or the Bennetts had this sort of service they could do real damage rather than contesting aimless high balls against tall defenders

Mastermcgrath

Everyone who knows hurling knew about this poor group since u14. The armchair fans seeing them on TV for the first time tonight of course are shocked and outraged but let them off I say

I commend the management for how they approached it, they disbanded with many of the lads who were not good enough at minor 2 years ago and instead went with a young team with many from last years u17s. Today was a tough one for them but these lads will be a year older and stronger next year and we will have the base of a seriously competitive u20 team. I hope the management are given a second year to see it through.

Deisefacts

EYEBALLSOUT wrote: »

There you have it- a 22 point defeat!

Aside from players, mgmt, etc..etc.. we have to look at how these players are being coached. It seems to me that every club is buying into this tippy tappy Hurling to the detriment of being able to win our own ball!!
Waterford this year in Senior Hurling and Ballygunner v Ballyhale this year are proof of what i am saying. We have devised a short cut to try and win games which is most teams plan B.
As a hurling man, who played at a reasonable level for club and county, its sickening to watch the direction Waterford hurling is going.
Time to open our eyes because tonight is not good enough. This is not a pop at the players or mgmt because what happened tonight is endemic of what is going on with Waterford hurling at nearly every level.

Absolutely sickening. Co board are asleep at the wheel. Come in out of the fog!!!

You should get your hands on the scores from the recent u-16/15/14 Munster tournaments in hurling. Comprehensive beatings by divisional squads from other counties. The decline in underage football started in 2007/8 when the beatings started at minor/u-21 grade and now 10 years later it has started in hurling and no changes have been made to coaching and games within the county to arrest this slide. We are well and truly on our way to becoming the new Offaly and I predict we'll pass them out on our way down as they've started restructuring their underage 3yrs ago

People on here have been deriding thesaturdayman on here with the last few months but all he has been trying to do is highlight what’s going on at underage he this county. Fair play to him


The county bard coaching and games officer needs to be replaced immediately and never let go for another position within the county board again. Also the gentleman that was there before him needs to resign from his position too as it looks like he didn’t do his job either. Coaching and games needs to be restructured from the top to the bottom immediately. It’s not fit for porpoise and all they seem to be doing is trying to fill development squad managements from year to year to have their box ticked for when croke park come calling. There is no player pathway for a player from u-14 to u-20. No database on what his strengths are or what he needs to work on year on year. How many times over the last few months have we seen trials for different age groups being conducted because of some new management team being put in place. From what I can see looking at the coaching and games of other counties we are the only ones carrying out trials because the new management teams don’t know anything about the group they are inheriting.

Do you know what, I’m going to give up because I’ll get shouted down for highlighting these things and being accused of a bias towards the county board. **** the whole lot

Davys Fits

What ever happened to marking your man in Waterford hurling?
Between the seniors and u20's Ive never seen so many players standing around waiting for a breaking ball. It seems tactics have overcome some of the basics of the game.

_blaaz

Davys Fits wrote: »

What ever happened to marking your man in Waterford hurling?
Between the seniors and u20's Ive never seen so many players standing around waiting for a breaking ball. It seems tactics have overcome some of the basics of the game.

Its infurinating....we complain about beating/tie ourselves up in knots over tactics etc.....but think nothing of opposition players finding themselves free with noone within 5-6 yards of em in walsh park,tightest pitchbin the country



We will we be in 10 years....the futures grim from where im.sitting

Deisegodeo

Yet another disheartening evening for Waterford hurling. There really does seem to be something badly wrong at the moment, we are taking beatings right left and centre lately.

It said in the programme for today's game that the u20 management team was only appointed in February with preparations beginning in May. I find that absolutely incredible that such an attitude to the this championship would exist, we won the u21 All Ireland in 2016 and now 3 years later we seem like we couldnt be bothered even preparing properly for this important competition.

thesaturdayman

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

Maybe you should’ve have checked the panel firstvbefore writing all that. All the teams you named above are represented on the panel

This aged well.

Evidently I put it up before the game. I was training tonight and a few of lads who should be on the panel told me that the Dls or Ballygunner u20s would hammer the county side that played tonight.

A number of lads didn’t make themselves available; that’s true

What is also true is a number of lads were not approached

Double with the county board tying the mgmts hands in terms of limiting training sessions

Factor all these in and what hope do you have?

I’d put it to you, what manager worth his salt would accept these conditions? One that is a nice lapdog to county board and happy that he has another gig for next year I would suggest

Stopitwillya

thesaturdayman wrote: »

I was training tonight and a few of lads who should be on the panel told me that the Dls or Ballygunner u20s would hammer the county side that played tonight.

Ah give over would you putting more crap up. This beats last night's post.
Dls and ballygunner combined wouldn't come near the team named tonight. Sure Mick Mahony was a selector and there was ballygunner lads on the bench. As another poster stated please name the players you think should have started.

One or two prospects on the team beaten tonight, namely Daly, Billy Power and Kiely, but this team has been extremely poor all the way up and tonight was just a continuance of that.

However, if what you say that this team first got together in May, then that is just not good enough and that is not fair on the young lads who played tonight.

thesaturdayman

Stopitwillya wrote: »

Ah give over would you putting more crap up. This beats last night's post.
Dls and ballygunner combined wouldn't come near the team named tonight. Sure Mick Mahony was a selector and there was ballygunner lads on the bench. As another poster stated please name the players you think should have started.

One or two prospects on the team beaten tonight, namely Daly, Billy Power and Kiely, but this team has been extremely poor all the way up and tonight was just a continuance of that.

However, if what you say that this team first got together in May, then that is just not good enough and that is not fair on the young lads who played tonight.

I’m telling you what a number of intercounty hurlers past and present said yes. They were of that opinion & they have played against and managed teams that play in the grade we are talking about, so I’ll take their judgement over yours, thanks.

One Ballygunner lad had concussion / missed a load of training & the other was shoe horned into being sub keeper. There would be about another 5 from the club ability wise should be on it but aren’t for previous reasons outlined.

Early May they got together yes were told there wasn’t the budget to start earlier.

Stopitwillya

I’m telling you what a number of intercounty hurlers past and present said yes. They were of that opinion & they have played against and managed teams that play in the grade we are talking about, so I’ll take their judgement over yours, thanks.

One Ballygunner lad had concussion / missed a load of training & the other was shoe horned into being sub keeper. There would be about another 5 from the club ability wise should be on it but aren’t for previous reasons outlined.

Early May they got together yes were told there wasn’t the budget to start earlier.[/quote]

Well they we're talking nonsense.
2 years ago, when this team was minor Ballygunner had just one starter Tadgh Foley, who was on the panel tonight.

Again please name the 5 Ballygunner players whom you said should be on it.

thesaturdayman

I haven’t named anyone to date & im not going to start now.

Look up who the best players were at minor & who were excellent in most recent senior champ game. There is your starting point.

PTH2009

I wonder was Fanning and Co actually at the game ?? The cameras showed Derek, Cork under 21 boss (I think) and Liam Sheedy

Any news on the senior management actually ???

Noticed a few weeks ago Fergal Hartley is a selector with Ballygunner now

mountgomery burns

When you ask lads from Passage/Ballygunner whether they should have more on the team...what answer do you expect?

That's taking the whole grievance of a West dominated team in the extreme opposite direction to say there's 5 lads from one club good enough to start on an inter county team (Edit I think the suggestion is there should be 7 lads from Ballygunner starting, imagine!!)

Just as an aside, there was only one player from the 4 senior City clubs that started on the u21 team in 2016 (Austin Gleeson). De La Salle beat Abbeyside in the county final that year, Conor Prunty the sole representative of both clubs combined on the starting 15. And I'd hazard an educated guess that Ballygunner won the 2015 u21 county title. The manager that year was also from Waterford city.

Worth considering.

Stopitwillya

thesaturdayman wrote: »

I haven’t named anyone to date & im not going to start now.

Look up who the best players were at minor & who were excellent in most recent senior champ game. There is your starting point.

Tadgh Foley only under 20 player named to start for Ballygunner in their last senior champ game, according to the match programme. That may have changed before the game as Philip Mahony was named centre back and don't think he played.

Anyway I was up at training in Naomh Pol tonight and Noelie Connolly reckoned we should have 3 of our players starting tonight, so it's all subjective.

Waternut

thesaturdayman wrote: »

I’m telling you what a number of intercounty hurlers past and present said yes. They were of that opinion & they have played against and managed teams that play in the grade we are talking about, so I’ll take their judgement over yours, thanks.

One Ballygunner lad had concussion / missed a load of training & the other was shoe horned into being sub keeper. There would be about another 5 from the club ability wise should be on it but aren’t for previous reasons outlined.

Early May they got together yes were told there wasn’t the budget to start earlier.

Look, if a lad can't break onto the Ballygunner senior team, they have no business playing U20 for the county.

Foley started recently, but I don't think he would be starting if Ballygunner had their full compliment. Same with Gallergher

Leavey is a wristy young hurler but is probably only after finishing is leaving cert in June and again is a little on the young and light side. He's the same age as Kiely and Kiely got man handled tonight..

Therustynail

Waternut wrote: »

Look, if a lad can't break onto the Ballygunner senior team, they have no business playing U20 for the county.
..

This is a bit of a ridiculous statement considering how far Ballygunner are ahead of the chasing pack at senior. There are subs on the Ballygunner team that would start on every other senior team in the county. For whatever reasons it happened , I feel that a U20 team with no city club representation is missing something considering how dominant these clubs are in the local championship. Something just doesn't add up.

JesusRef

thesaturdayman wrote: »

This aged well.

I’d put it to you, what manager worth his salt would accept these conditions? One that is a nice lapdog to county board and happy that he has another gig for next year I would suggest

This group has had different managers the whole way up,



James Lacey stepped in at Minor,


Gough at U20


they were going to get walloped and everyone knew it


Fair credit to the Manager and players from last night for representing Waterford when many didn't put their hand up and walked away.


yes things weren't perfect, but walking away is never the right thing to do, I would actually commend his courage to stick at it and do the right thing even though things were fair from perfect.


Someone had to put their hand up to take this team for Waterford - like many have done countless times in the past with our underage teams who were lambs to the slaughter.

Deiseen

Are these the only players that are U20 in Waterford?

If previous results were not good then is the priority not to inject some new blood into the team? Why stick with the same formula if it hasn't worked? Do managers think they can get more out of players than previous managers?

JesusRef

Deiseen wrote: »

Are these the only players that are U20 in Waterford?

If previous results were not good then is the priority not to inject some new blood into the team? Why stick with the same formula if it hasn't worked? Do managers think they can get more out of players than previous managers?

New blood was injected into the team - many of the players were under 18 - if the championship had not moved back to U17 Gavin fives, Dean Beecher, Micheal Kiely would have been playing minor this year.

thesaturdayman

mountgomery burns wrote: »

When you ask lads from Passage/Ballygunner whether they should have more on the team...what answer do you expect?

That's taking the whole grievance of a West dominated team in the extreme opposite direction to say there's 5 lads from one club good enough to start on an inter county team (Edit I think the suggestion is there should be 7 lads from Ballygunner starting, imagine!!)

Just as an aside, there was only one player from the 4 senior City clubs that started on the u21 team in 2016 (Austin Gleeson). De La Salle beat Abbeyside in the county final that year, Conor Prunty the sole representative of both clubs combined on the starting 15. And I'd hazard an educated guess that Ballygunner won the 2015 u21 county title. The manager that year was also from Waterford city.

Worth considering.

Fair but the team was based on a strong col na deise / dungarvan colleges side.

Look if this crowd are a problem child - fine.

Can’t keep papering over the cracks Waterford Gaa is broken, the wrong processes are in place from top to bottom & grossly incapable people also.

As blunt as that; there are people in positions that are not capable or qualified to be.

As the great Barney Curley said “they contribute nothing, take out merchants, take take take”

deiseach

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and the idea that the Under-20 management have some manner of prejudice towards players from the East is an extraordinary claim. Anyone hinting at it, and they always 'hint' so they can disingenuously claim that that's not what they are saying at all at all, should put up or shut up.

thesaturdayman

deiseach wrote: »

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and the idea that the Under-20 management have some manner of prejudice towards players from the East is an extraordinary claim. Anyone hinting at it, and they always 'hint' so they can disingenuously claim that that's not what they are saying at all at all, should put up or shut up.

Why then given all of the coaching and games funding Waterford has received over last decade - close on a mill making us proportionally one of the best funded hurling counties in the country?

But yet with all that in mind only 15% or so of the demographic was represented last night.

It’s either a personal agenda or the money allocated has not been spent correctly or at all in terms of coaching and games development.

Anyone accepting last night or the bs of 2 year plans are part of the problem and not the solution