Climate Action Plan

Kivaro · 17-06-2019 6:21pm #1

Well, it's here.
And it's going to hit every one of us.

Some snippets from the measures announced today, of which there are 180 actions in the plan:

ban the sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2030
oil boilers will not be installed in new builds from 2022, and gas boilers from 2025
one million electric cars by 2030
500,000 retrofitted homes
move to 70% renewable electricity by 2030

There will be a new government governance structure to drive this.
And there will be a new very powerful Oireachtas department to make sure that this plan happens.

Failure to implement these policies to meet the legally binding EU targets could result in a cost to the Exchequer of up to €1.75 billion over the next decade.

Petrol, diesel, oil, heating oil, coal etc. will be more expensive for us.
Is it all worth it?
Is is sufficient?
And what about the likes of countries like India: will the 1.339 Billion people living in that country make the same sacrifices as us here in Ireland?
Will carbon taxes be really ring fenced?

Lots of questions.

is_that_so · 17-06-2019 6:25pm

Needs more of the carrot than the stick initially and the governance thing is essential. Good in principle and some clear targets but we'll see.:)

kneemos · 17-06-2019 6:26pm

Solar Panels powering your heat pump. Probably cheap electric cars by then too.

Everyone wins.

mad muffin · 17-06-2019 6:28pm

Ireland… there’s a million cows farting in this field. We need to do our bit.

Takes one cow out

Job done…

Absolutely laughable. As if Ireland lives in its own bubble. Climate change. The environment. Pollution. It’s a global issue that needs a global initiative. And the big polluters need to really start doing the heavy lifting and making the hard choices for out entire planet.

Every country doing piecemeal will not work.

gordongekko · 17-06-2019 6:28pm

Unimaginative. This could be done in a much shorter time frame

BrokenArrows · 17-06-2019 6:28pm

It will all be pointless unless the whole world does it. But I guess we have to start somewhere.

Plumbthedepths · 17-06-2019 6:28pm

So no ICE cars by 2030. Lots of motor related taxes lost so .

JohnnyFlash · 17-06-2019 6:30pm

An ambitious and progressive plan on an extremely important topic. Plenty of challenges there to be overcome, but it’s an acknowledgment that change is needed and sets out how we can achieve our targets within agreed timeframes.

Blinky Plebum · 17-06-2019 6:30pm

What we do is essentially pointless unless China,India and USA follow suit and almost certainly they won't.

Still doesn't mean we shouldn't have a greener country but it's all a waste of time when the big countries causing most of the problems don't give a ****.

Also surely there need to be policies to start reducing the worlds population all of the environmental problems stem from over consumption which stems from too many people being on the planet.The best thing a person can actually do for the environment is to not have children.

fly_agaric · 17-06-2019 6:54pm

Kivaro wrote: »

And what about the likes of countries like India: will the 1.339 Billion people living in that country make the same sacrifices as us here in Ireland?

On this one, would be kind of obscene to start with talk of sacrifices given the wealth per person differential involved. I'm not sure what sacrifices we've been making so far. Any "plan" could end up being a load of blather anyway. Ireland is very good at talk, but not so good at action and implementation.

Birth rates are falling but probably not fast enough + if India and China both follow the development path the rich countries have taken to the end it will ruin the environment. What does it say if rich countries won't sacrifice at all trying to avoid that catastrophe?

Also on argument made that we are too small to make any difference and therefore should do nothing that causes any pain, the little countries of the EU when put together as a collective do add up.

Ultimately it depends on the actions of US/China/India but you've got to be the change you want to see and all that. Better that throwing your hands up and crying "a curse on all your houses" IMO.

is_that_so · 17-06-2019 6:55pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So no ICE cars by 2030. Lots of motor related taxes lost so .

LPT will go up

17-06-2019 6:57pm

but look has anybody asked greta yet how she feeeeeels about it

Thelonious Monk · 17-06-2019 6:58pm

BrokenArrows wrote: »

It will all be pointless unless the whole world does it. But I guess we have to start somewhere.

How is a cleaner Ireland not a good thing?

VinLieger · 17-06-2019 6:58pm

The idea that we could be anywhere close to 100% of cars electric by 2030 is insanity. They are simply affordable for the majority of people right now and that's not going to change enou7gh in 10 years for anything close to 100% of cars.

The lack of any real agriculture proposals regarding emissions just proves the claim this is all about the upcoming election and nothing more.

Thelonious Monk · 17-06-2019 7:00pm

VinLieger wrote: »

The idea that we could be anywhere close to 100% of cars electric by 2030 is insanity. They are simply affordable for the majority of people right now and that's not going to change enou7gh in 10 years for anything close to 100% of cars.

The lack of any real agriculture proposals regarding emissions just proves the claim this is all about the upcoming election and nothing more.

I don't think they have the balls to say we need less cows and a more diverse countryside.
Anyway all this electric car stuff is nonsense, we should be moving away from private car ownership where possible.

Your Face · 17-06-2019 7:02pm

How much?

17-06-2019 7:05pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

An ambitious and progressive plan on an extremely important topic.

Naturally, as it was devised by a party close to your heart. With FG having recently taken a dive in the polls, the timing of this announcement is most convenient.

Atoms for Peace · 17-06-2019 7:45pm

The majority of cows here are grass fed, they're basically carbon neutral.

Pkiernan · 17-06-2019 7:48pm

I assume we will see an end to the government jet, and no more Business Class flights for Public so-called Workers.

BC flights have a 50% higher Carbon footprint.

Thelonious Monk · 17-06-2019 7:48pm

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

The majority of cows here are grass fed, they're basically carbon neutral.

The environmental group said a recent United Nations report found Ireland to be the “most carbon-intensive beef producer in Europe”, the committee heard.

“Commercial interests in these industries continue to rely on older research, which had a much narrower scope, to express their ‘green’ credentials,” Mr Lumley said.

An Taisce and the UN disagree

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/irish-agriculture-greenwashing-its-climate-impact-an-taisce-1.3855084

Oh God I can see where this thread is going to go...

SirGerryAdams · 17-06-2019 7:50pm

Well I'm cutting surplus amounts of turf for as long as I can. Will build an extra big shed too I think. Pricks

Poor Uncle Tom · 17-06-2019 8:12pm

Leo needs a good slapping, I'd do it but I don't want to get my hands dirty.

Micky 32 · 17-06-2019 8:18pm

As long as people are happy enough to accept that carbon taxes will make goods and services go through the roof. Trucks doing about 8mpg to deliver food to shops, taxi's , buses, services where people have to drive to fix things like boilers, plumbers etc...

Harvey Weinstein · 17-06-2019 8:53pm

I hear a lot that Irelands contribution to global warming accounts for one tenth of one percent of global carbon emissions (can anyone confirm?)

So Irish people will be delighted to know that the massive price rises and enormous rises in living expenses that are coming will not make the slightest bit of difference to helping the global warming problem

Thelonious Monk · 17-06-2019 8:57pm

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

I hear a lot that Irelands contribution to global warming accounts for one tenth of one percent of global carbon emissions (can anyone confirm?)

So Irish people will be delighted to know that the massive price rises and enormous rises in living expenses that are coming will not make the slightest bit of difference to helping the global warming problem

The mind boggles. You do know that per person we pollute far more than Chinese people?

Atoms for Peace · 17-06-2019 9:01pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

An Taisce and the UN disagree

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/irish-agriculture-greenwashing-its-climate-impact-an-taisce-1.3855084

Oh God I can see where this thread is going to go...

Expect the Queslings to sacrifice another Irish industry so, just like Irish sugar, on the alter of international free trade.

whisky_galore · 17-06-2019 9:01pm

People will be happy with new green measures provided other people (not themselves) will pay for them.

whisky_galore · 17-06-2019 9:04pm

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Expect the Queslings to sacrifice another Irish industry so, just like Irish sugar, on the alter of international free trade.

Farmers got thrown some crumbs to keep them quiet and the movers and shakers got nice big wodges of cash.

mad muffin · 17-06-2019 9:07pm

No mention of fining companies that use excessive amounts of plastic in packaging. Or putting tariffs on goods that come from major polluting countries.

Now that would make a difference.

Blinky Plebum · 17-06-2019 9:12pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The mind boggles. You do know that per person we pollute far more than Chinese people?

We do, but they have 300 times our population and that is the bigger problem.

There are far too many people on the planet and nobody is going to have the balls to say this is what we need to be cutting.

I'm not suggesting a cull but governments all across the world are going to have to find some way of stopping people from having too many children.

utyh2ikcq9z76b · 17-06-2019 9:12pm

Will cost less in the long run as you become energy independent

SafeSurfer · 17-06-2019 9:13pm

When the solution to a problem is less taxes and smaller government I will start to believe.

El_Bee · 17-06-2019 9:19pm

yeah great job, meanwhile China, Pakistan, India etc. don't give a f*ck.

tjhook · 17-06-2019 9:19pm

Alena Loud Tantrum wrote: »

Will cost less in the long run as you become energy independent

Yes, because the government doesn't need all the taxes it takes in today, and definitely won't just increase other taxes to make up for decreased intake from energy taxes.

SafeSurfer · 17-06-2019 9:23pm

Can somebody explain to me what the whole climate change crisis agenda is trying to achieve?

A static climate seems to be the goal but that, in my opinion is unachievable.

Sciprio · 17-06-2019 9:28pm

I'm still waiting on Enda Kennys five point plan.

Blueshoe · 17-06-2019 9:29pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The mind boggles. You do know that per person we pollute far more than Chinese people?

0.13% of global emissions come from Ireland

Thelonious Monk · 17-06-2019 9:30pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

0.13% of global emissions come from Ireland

that's because we've a small population relatively speaking. Per capita we pollute a lot, everyone in the world needs to change.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 17-06-2019 9:31pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Can somebody explain to me what the whole climate change crisis agenda is trying to achieve?

A static climate seems to be the goal but that, in my opinion is unachievable.

That's an objective fact, there's no opinion about it, the climate will always change, it runs in cycles over thousands of yrs.

The debate centres around man made vs natural and rate of change.

SafeSurfer · 17-06-2019 9:32pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The mind boggles. You do know that per person we pollute far more than Chinese people?

And rich people pollute more than poor people but carbon taxes will effect both, to a disproportionate level.

SafeSurfer · 17-06-2019 9:33pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

That's an objective fact, there's no opinion about it, the climate will always change, it runs in cycles over thousands of yrs.

The debate centres around man made vs natural and rate of change.

I thought the climate alarmists had declared the debate to be over. How very scientific of them.

bfa1509 · 17-06-2019 9:33pm

The action plan doesn't go far enough for me. Just think of all the people there are exhaling carbon dioxide. I think we should cut the amount of people on earth down by 75% by 2025 and bring in measures to stop people breathing before 2030. Only then will climate change slow down to a point that it won't pose a threat to humanity.

Blueshoe · 17-06-2019 9:35pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

that's because we've a small population relatively speaking. Per capita we pollute a lot, everyone in the world needs to change.

It's still .13% of the global emissions . A drop in the ocean and taxing Paddy and Mary will make zero difference
8% of people voted for the green party.
92% didn't.

SafeSurfer · 17-06-2019 9:36pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

that's because we've a small population relatively speaking. Per capita we pollute a lot, everyone in the world needs to change.

“Everyone in the world needs to change.”

We’ve had revolutionaries say that before. It never ends well.

bfa1509 · 17-06-2019 9:37pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

It's still .13% of the global emissions . A drop in the ocean and taxing Paddy and Mary will make zero difference
8% of people voted for the green party.
92% didn't.

Too late. Leo already "got the message". No amount of sense is going to slow this runaway train down

Blueshoe · 17-06-2019 9:38pm

bfa1509 wrote: »

Too late. Leo already "got the message". No amount of sense is going to slow this runaway train down

You are correct. It's happening now like it or not. Other countries protest or remove governments. Irish people just get on with it.

whisky_galore · 17-06-2019 9:41pm

Nice distraction from health and housing all the same.

17-06-2019 9:43pm

Blinky Plebum wrote: »

We do, but they have 300 times our population and that is the bigger problem.

There are far too many people on the planet and nobody is going to have the balls to say this is what we need to be cutting.

I'm not suggesting a cull but governments all across the world are going to have to find some way of stopping people from having too many children.

There's a really good book called "Factfulness" that shows global trends based on WHO data to prove that fact is often diffrent from a common perception.

One of these is that population will continue to increase unless we have some good wars or famines. But the reality is that as the standards of living improve the family size declines significantly. While we might be looking at 10bn people by 2100, it should be flatlining at that.

In addition, we should be looking at waste per person for a more accurate reflection of where the issues lie, and should be looking to decrease waste significantly by those of us at the top of the again (which is everyone in this country.)

As other countries standard of living match ours so too will their waste per person. Because people are like water, socio economic classes find an equilibrium in terms of possession and waste. We can lead the way.

Any anyway, being selfish, it will make our own country a lot cooler.

Thelonious Monk · 17-06-2019 9:45pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

“Everyone in the world needs to change.”

We’ve had revolutionaries say that before. It never ends well.

Well ok let's do nothing and carry on as is and see how that goes. Whether climate heating is man made or not we're turning the planet into a giant dump and there'll be nothing left for anyone soon enough.

gozunda · 17-06-2019 9:48pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

An Taisce and the UN disagree
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/irish-agriculture-greenwashing-its-climate-impact-an-taisce-1.3855084

Oh God I can see where this thread is going to go...

Well that's likley true. Thelonious Monk telling posters to (and I quote) ...

"shut the f*ck up"

s7ryf3925pivug · 17-06-2019 9:48pm

500k retrofits would cost tens of billions.

Modern high density apartment blocks would be more cost effective, with communal facilities and amenities and good public transport connections.

If you can afford a private garden then that's a nice luxury but the resources are not there for it to be a given.

They need to start coming down hard on people burning rubbish. Very common in parts of the countryside. There's a village near here that always smells of plastic fumes.

Climate Action Plan

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