Climate Action Plan

Blueshoe

stateofflux wrote: »

Its laughable...Ireland is so small and inconsequential that id guess the 100th biggest city in outer China would have more emmissions

This is a misguised virtue feulled red herring for taxing the bollix out of us

We should be on board at some stage but not leading the pack

Ireland is responsible for 0.13% of global emissions. Basically a fart in the wind

Alf Veedersane

Lofidelity wrote: »

Ban smoky coal nationwide from 2020.

Start with the low hanging fruit. A simple idea that wont cost consumers any money and will improve the air in regional towns in winter.

It was supposed to be in place by the end of the year but has been delayed because threat of legal action.

1100 people die prematurely in Ireland due to poor air quality, primarily due to particulates. Moves to retrofit homes, upgrade heating and move away from petrol/diesel cars are a good thing for health, even if you don't want to address climate change.

STB.

Necro wrote: »

The more worrying thing for me is that people will see FF as a decent alternative, completely disregarding their recent history

I myself am becoming much more anti-FG but can't fathom voting for that other shower either

If the local elections proved anything, its that FF are just as toxic as they ever were. It says it all that despite making a mess of going into power with FF, that the Greens are now more forgivable than anyone else, in the absence of anyone else. Labour are just as toxic given what they promised and then what they did when voted in, in 2011.

I am quite surprised that another votable party has not emerged that doesn't have any religious ties or leanings. Politics is in bad shape when all one has is indepedents.

gozunda

Colton Scrawny Dude wrote: »

500k retrofits would cost tens of billions.

Modern high density apartment blocks would be more cost effective, with communal facilities and amenities and good public transport connections.

If you can afford a private garden then that's a nice luxury but the resources are not there for it to be a given.

Didn't we already try that in Ballymun?

But yesh high density urban living - nothing quite like it - us humans been at it for about 9000 years - not without its pitfalls. We could learn from history all the same.

Çatalhöyük: 9,000 years ago, a community with modern urban problems

Scientists studying the ancient ruins of Çatalhöyük, in modern Turkey, found that its inhabitants—3,500 to 8,000 people at its peak—experienced overcrowding, infectious diseases, violence and environmental problems.

Çatalhöyük was one of the first proto-urban communities in the world and the residents experienced what happens when you put many people together in a small area for an extended time," Larsen said.

"It set the stage for where we are today and the challenges we face in urban living."

https://phys.org/news/2019-06-atalhyk-years-modern-urban-problems.amp

Also sounds a bit like China. They're big into bulldozing rural communities and promoting living on top of each other which only seems to benefit developers and land speculators

https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/books/article/1891355/book-review-human-cost-chinas-rush-urbanisation

Colton Scrawny Dude wrote: »

They need to start coming down hard on people burning rubbish. Very common in parts of the countryside. There's a village near here that always smells of plastic fumes.

Indeed 'they're do. The can first tackle the bonfire sites, burnt out cars and the burning of rubbish on plastic on 'waste' ground found all around Irish cities

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Activist-home-attacked-as-illegal-dumping-crisis-intensifies-f3443323-1513-4635-9b1c-51f81eef2ba4-ds

https://www.echo.ie/images/26_October_2017_online_pics/Halloween_Pics/November_2_Online_Pictures/debriscollage.jpg

And dont get me started on those fookers who take a drive in the countryside to dump their rubbish :mad:

SirGerryAdams

Blueshoe wrote: »

An increase of 75% carbon tax on fossil fuels already being spoken about for October's budget.
It has begun. Spare a thought for the elderly who will be forced to choose between food or fuel this winter

See they've already got their excuse lined up about how these people will actually end up with more money in their pockets? Ridiculous.

I'm voting Fianna Fail next time.

SirGerryAdams

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It was supposed to be in place by the end of the year but has been delayed because threat of legal action.

1100 people die prematurely in Ireland due to poor air quality,

People die every year. Everyone has a cause of death.

SirGerryAdams

Of course if Ireland wanted to reduce it's impact and allow it's citizens to have the same ****ty standard of living as they do now, they could plan on reducing the population by 1m by 2040 instead of growing it.

So now, we have to make a saving of about 20% of emissions JUST to stay at the same levels we're emitting today. But of course the government (and for some reason a lot of people) would rather increase taxes on everyone, make everyones lives harder instead of making everyones lives easier.

Alf Veedersane

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

People die every year. Everyone has a cause of death.

What a well-thought-out point.

"People die so let's never address why they die".

In that case, let's halve the health budget and have a massive spending spree.

SirGerryAdams

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

What a well-thought-out point.

"People die so let's never address why they die".

In that case, let's halve the health budget and have a massive spending spree.

If you live long enough you'll get cancer. So even if you didn't die of air quality, you'll be saying "people die prematurely of cancer".

You think humans lives aren't being shorted by sitting in office chairs for 40+ hours a week?

is_that_so

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

See they've already got their excuse lined up about how these people will actually end up with more money in their pockets? Ridiculous.

I'm voting Fianna Fail next time.

They mostly support the carbon tax idea. You need SF/PBP and or any other acronym.

Hector Savage

They harp on about it, meanwhile SUV car sales are just skyrocketting.
School kids on strike over climate change - as they are driven everyday to school in Daddys Land Rover - what happened to walking to school ?
No one hangs clothes out anymore, it's all dryers now - more wasted power.

People still want their new iPhone every 6 months, new iPad every Christmas - nothing but hypocrisy.

If people don't change their own personal lives, nothing will change, we'll just pay more and more taxes - which won't do anything cos the money won't go where it should.

Alf Veedersane

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

If you live long enough you'll get cancer. So even if you didn't die of air quality, you'll be saying "people die prematurely of cancer".

You think humans lives aren't being shorted by sitting in office chairs for 40+ hours a week?

I'd like your stats on that.

I'm struggling to see your rationale but it appears to be lets spend nothing on trying to improve health because people die.

Which, I suppose, ties in with reducing the numbers of people on the planet.

is_that_so

VinLieger wrote: »

The idea that we could be anywhere close to 100% of cars electric by 2030 is insanity. They are simply affordable for the majority of people right now and that's not going to change enou7gh in 10 years for anything close to 100% of cars.


The lack of any real agriculture proposals regarding emissions just proves the claim this is all about the upcoming election and nothing more.

Absolutely nowhere does it state 100% of cars should be electric. The target is 1m cars and in 2030 you will not be able to buy a new ICE car.

There are 35 action points for agriculture. There are some of them included here.

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/agri-business/the-radical-actions-aiming-to-slash-farming-emissions-38227174.html

Hector Savage

Anything about advising people to have less children in that plan ???

Nah ... course not.

is_that_so

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It was supposed to be in place by the end of the year but has been delayed because threat of legal action.

1100 people die prematurely in Ireland due to poor air quality, primarily due to particulates. Moves to retrofit homes, upgrade heating and move away from petrol/diesel cars are a good thing for health, even if you don't want to address climate change.

People often use statistics to further their own agenda. I'm not saying that these numbers are necessarily untrue but they tend to simplistically focus on one root cause only.

alchemist33

We already have a very low birth rate

is_that_so

alchemist33 wrote: »

We already have a very low birth rate

It's 1.77, below the replacement rate of 2.1, but still one of the highest in the EU.

Richard Hillman

Essentially what will happen is that we in Europe will hamstring ourselves with taxes and regulations whilst crippleling our economies and spending power. Meanwhile India, China, USA etc will go on as normal, their economies will boom and their people will benefit to European standard lives, without outrageous taxes.

We are witnessing the surrender of our millenia long power over the world.

is_that_so

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Essentially what will happen is that we in Europe will hamstring ourselves with taxes and regulations whilst crippleling our economies and spending power. Meanwhile India, China, USA etc will go on as normal, their economies will boom and their people will benefit to European standard lives, without outrageous taxes.

We are witnessing the surrender of our millenia long power over the world.

Did you not get any further than the words carbon tax? There's a lot more proposed outside of that.

Cina

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Essentially what will happen is that we in Europe will hamstring ourselves with taxes and regulations whilst crippleling our economies and spending power. Meanwhile India, China, USA etc will go on as normal, their economies will boom and their people will benefit to European standard lives, without outrageous taxes.

We are witnessing the surrender of our millenia long power over the world.

It's simply untrue that implementing climate change action will "hinder" an economy. Plenty of scientists state the opposite. Good article on it in the New Yorker:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-false-choice-between-economic-growth-and-combatting-climate-change

Short term pain for long term gain, basically, but people don't want short-term pain so it probably won't happen and we'll all be f*cked.

Boggles

is_that_so wrote: »

Absolutely nowhere does it state 100% of cars should be electric. The target is 1m cars and in 2030 you will not be able to buy a new ICE car.

TBF 1 or 2 of the papers have taken it up wrong and reported that 100% of cars will be electric.

That said one million cars in a decade is crack pipe inhaling hilarious.

Their target for 2020 was 230,000.

Is there even 10,000 of them on roads now?

The_Kew_Tour

The population growth from 7 to 12 billion in next 30 years will be the greatest obstacle to any change.

namloc1980

How do they expect the average household to pay for all this, carbon taxes, a new EV outside the door, retrofitting their homes to be greener, heat pumps to replace boilers etc. I'm all for cleaner tech but the financial burden is being placed on the individual in a disproportionate way.

Alf Veedersane

is_that_so wrote: »

People often use statistics to further their own agenda. I'm not saying that these numbers are necessarily untrue but they tend to simplistically focus on one root cause only.

Not saying that that's not an issue with stats...it's a European Environment Agency and they've linked the research studies that the numbers are based on. I'll look through it to see to what degree that may be true.

But it's not a leap to say that PM2.5 and PAH are not problematic pollutants that have a not insignificant impact on quality of life.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

The population growth from 7 to 12 billion in next 30 years will be the greatest obstacle to any change.

I thought we are going to top out around 10 billion, Europes population is on the decline and as poor countries become richer the trend has been towards smaller families

Alf Veedersane

Boggles wrote: »

Their target for 2020 was 230,000.

Is there even 10,000 of them on roads now?

When they said that (230k) it was based on having 10% of the national fleet as EVs. They just assumed that the rollout of charging points would create demand that never followed. It dropped to 50k within 3/4 years and then 20k I think, maybe 2 years ago.

There is about 5k now. It will be about 7k by 2020.

The cost and technology haven't improved at the rate that was anticipated and they're only starting to gain traction really this year. Sales still aren't stellar but the increase is much bigger than it has been.

SafeSurfer

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Essentially what will happen is that we in Europe will hamstring ourselves with taxes and regulations whilst crippleling our economies and spending power. Meanwhile India, China, USA etc will go on as normal, their economies will boom and their people will benefit to European standard lives, without outrageous taxes.

We are witnessing the surrender of our millenia long power over the world.

But the climate crisis crusade will be a wonderful excuse for politicians to explain falling living standards.

SirGerryAdams

is_that_so wrote: »

They mostly support the carbon tax idea. You need SF/PBP and or any other acronym.

Fianna Fail will give tax cuts so **** it.

c.p.w.g.w

mad muffin wrote: »

Ireland… there’s a million cows farting in this field. We need to do our bit.

Takes one cow out

Job done…

Absolutely laughable. As if Ireland lives in its own bubble. Climate change. The environment. Pollution. It’s a global issue that needs a global initiative. And the big polluters need to really start doing the heavy lifting and making the hard choices for out entire planet.

Every country doing piecemeal will not work.

Cows belching is the issue, not farting...also grasslands are carbon sinks, which is never taken into account*

*grasslands are better than woodland with regards taking carbon out of the atmosphere

topper75

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So no ICE cars by 2030. Lots of motor related taxes lost so .

Ha! Leo has totally failed to grasp the Mad Max nature of our dystopian future.

Will he take me on in the thunderdome? Doubt it.