Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

Grizzly 45 · 02-06-2019 6:34pm

Plus...WHO really has lobbying power in DC..It sure isnt the NRA with their chump change in finance.It's tobacco,pharma,oil, and the motor industry.[Witness Obama saving General Motors]They are also the biggest industies whose products kill more Americans than guns every year.

oldgit1897 · 02-06-2019 10:19pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

After moving from California to a Free State, I have deCaliforniaised my rifles.

California has an Assault Weapons Ban. It, of course, exists to prevent people (originally) from fire superiority over police, and later, to reduce the ability for someone to commit a spree shooting. When in California, all my rifles were compliant with this ban.

No longer in California, I no longer need to comply with the ban. I videoed the conversion process.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UblBGVNLfZ4

Two minute video, the actual conversion starts at about 55 seconds in.

Thus you can see the effect of a law, in practice, written by people who know not the subject matter. And, of course, in practice, such things have been done before mass shootings (eg San Bernadino)

I really enjoy your Tank videos, the one you done with Lindybeige in Bovingdon was very good.

oldgit1897 · 02-06-2019 10:21pm

Cass wrote: »

This pisses me off everytime i see/hear it.

FBI and CDC stats say 9,200+ shootings occurred with pistols/handguns.

300 with rifles. Not just ARs, AKs, semi auto, etc. ALL RIFLES.

More people are killed each year in America with bare hands, hammers, knives, and that is not even touching on one of the biggest factors that, i believe, contribute to the new trend of mass shootings as a solution to people's "issues", prescription medication which stands at over 150,000+ per year dead.

I heard more Americans die in the bath every year, than by firearms, something crazy like that. Why don't the pinko's worry about that ?

Cass · 03-06-2019 1:09pm

oldgit1897 wrote: »

Why don't the pinko's worry about that ?

Because its easier to cry and wail about gun control than to actually get up of their asses and do something to combat the root cause of gun violence.

I've said it before and while it's a slight oversimplification i believe it's apt. They blame the NRA for all their gun violence. Well the NRA is a membership organisation so with it's current membership standing at approx 5 million why don't 5 million +1 join it, then vote to disband it.

The media shows you only what suits the narrative. One of the last shootings in America, Colorado, was committed by a trans person, and the kid of an illegal felon and they used handguns not ARs. The guns were illegal owned/used. None of that fits their [media] narrative about AR15s being the root cause of mass shootings nor do the people involved so it was given 24 to 48 of coverage in minute segments and then disappeared from the news cycle.

Even watching the visit, right now, of President Trump to the UK. They, the reporters, keep referring to him as Mr. Trump. His title is President Trump. Even one American in the crowd that was interviewed said i don't agree with the man, but i'll respect the office he stands for and i'm happy to see him here.

Grizzly 45 · 03-06-2019 2:13pm

And watc the narraive die very quickly on the Virginia beach shooting die down as well.Because the shoter was BLACK!As well as using two 45ACP handguns... Anyone remember this guy?Zehulum Lael James? no of course not.He is African American too,and that does not fit the MSM narrative.He just targeted randomly 2 white women in 2015.
Or Vester Lee Flanagan AKA "Bryce Williams" who shot two news reporters live on TV in Virginia in 2015??
Or the fact in Chicago South Side there is a definition of a "mass shooting",every.single.weekend,of African american gang members.In the city with the strictest gun laws now in the USA.Never mentioned...But if they are white caucasian males,you will know everything about them for weeks on end.:mad:

Cass · 05-06-2019 7:59pm

Something extraordinary happened in Australia today. A paroled convict used a banned shotgun to open fire in downtown Darwin. He killed four people and wounded a fifth.

The firearm he used — a pump action shotgun — was banned in Australia 13 years ago. That’s beside the fact that it’s illegal for a parolee to possess a firearm. All this while wearing an ankle monitor.

So please, PLEASE, someone tell me how gun control works on criminals?

deezell · 05-06-2019 8:12pm

Cass wrote: »

Something extraordinary happened in Australia today. A paroled convict used a banned shotgun to open fire in downtown Darwin. He killed four people and wounded a fifth.

The firearm he used — a pump action shotgun — was banned in Australia 13 years ago. That’s beside the fact that it’s illegal for a parolee to possess a firearm. All this while wearing an ankle monitor.

So please, PLEASE, someone tell me how gun control works on criminals?

Easy. In a society where the visibility of guns is the exception rather than the rule, there's less likelihood of a person thinking of using a gun to go on a violent rampage, and even less opportunity to obtain one from the 'spillage' of legally obtained weapons, through theft or carelessness, into the hands of criminals. Forget about your craving for guns. Get a fishing rod, or a football, or a pool cue.

yubabill · 05-06-2019 8:19pm

deezell wrote: »

Easy. In a society where the visibility of guns is the exception rather than the rule, there's less likelihood of a person thinking of using a gun to go on a violent rampage, and even less opportunity to obtain one from the 'spillage' of legally obtained weapons, through theft or carelessness, into the hands of criminals. Forget about your craving for guns. Get a fishing rod, or a football, or a pool cue.

Would that be what you term a liberal society? How about we bin our guns and roll a spliff?

deezell · 05-06-2019 8:29pm

yubabill wrote: »

Would that be what you term a liberal society? How about we bin our guns and roll a spliff?

No, a safer one. And spliffs are illegal drugs, the use of which leads to far greater criminality and misery than ever was caused by guns, in their own right. Alcohol is also the root of a lot of misery, but only to the consumers and their affected circle. There is no criminality in the production and supply, only industry and commerce.
There's a saying, "Take a man and put a gun in his hand, sooner or later someone gets shot".

Cass · 05-06-2019 8:37pm

deezell wrote: »

Easy.

Glad you think so, perhaps you could call Australia, then the US and impart your wisdom because they cannot seem to get it right.

In a society where the visibility of guns is the exception rather than the rule,

Guns in Australia are scarce, and the one used was already banned. So again how does gun control help in this situation?

there's less likelihood of a person thinking of using a gun to go on a violent rampage,

You're right because when there are no guns there will be no crime. I mean these would never have occurred without .................................. guns!

Nice Truck attack, France - Truck used
Bourke Street attack in Australia - Knife used
Bali - Bomb
Manchester arena - Suicide bomb
London Bridge attack - Knife and car used
Belgium - bomb
Finsbury park - Van used
Beheading of Private Lee Rigsby london - knife used
Boston Marathon - bomb
Saint pertersburg - bomb
Toronto car attack - Car
Metrojet Flight 9268 - bomb
Ataturk airport attack - bomb and gun
New York truck attack - Truck
Brighton Seige - Shotgun
Queanbeyan stabbing attack - knives
Minto stabbing attack - Knives
2014 Endeavour Hills stabbings - knives
Madrid train attack - bombs
London (7/7) - bombs

and even less opportunity to obtain one from the 'spillage' of legally obtained weapons, through theft or carelessness, into the hands of criminals.

Spillage! Interesting choice of word.

There is no "spillage" through carelessness. If you had any information on the matter other than perceptions based on TV, and places like Wikipedia you'd know the true silliness of your claim.

If you are referring to guns that were legally held, got stolen and then used in a crime then i'd ask you to cite your sources and data and once again perhaps you can contact An Gardaí as they cannot prove this link nor do they seem to have the data you do.

If we are still referencing this Australian case, then the gun used was illegal to own, FOR ANYONE, and especially a convicted felon. So how do you ban a type of gun AGAIN?

Forget about your craving for guns

It's not cake.

Get a fishing rod, or a football, or a pool cue.

Have all three, thanks.

You are obviously anti gun, so tell me, why do you dislike firearms? What laws could be enacted here that would prevent the current shooting crimes that occur?

In the case above the person was disentitled to own a gun, used a gun that was banned over a decade ago (actually two), was on parole, etc. So this person broke very rule there is, got hold of an illegal gun, and used it to commit a crime. How did the Australian gun laws fail in stopping it? what gun law could be enacted that would have stopped it?

yubabill · 05-06-2019 8:41pm

deezell wrote: »

No, a safer one. And spliffs are illegal drugs, the use of which leads to far greater criminality and misery than ever was caused by guns, in their own right. Alcohol is also the root of a lot of misery, but only to the consumers and their affected circle. There is no criminality in the production and supply, only industry and commerce.
There's a saying, "Take a man and put a gun in his hand, sooner or later someone gets shot".

So our society would be safer if all of us licensed shooters gave up our guns?

Ullage.

And secondly, as regards someone getting shot - you are aware that target shooting has been going on in Ireland since mid-Victorian times without one - single- fatality?

Are you familiar with the hoops that have to be jumped to get a gun licence in Ireland?
there's a long list on this site somewhere.

You'll forgive me if I take offence at your comments.

Cass · 05-06-2019 8:43pm

deezell wrote: »

No, a safer one.

Australia has some of the toughest and strictest gun laws in the world. Didn't help here.

Chicago in America has the harshest/toughest gun laws for any state in America and yet there are an average of 50+ shootings and/or murders per WEEK.

Venezuela banned ALL guns 10 years ago, and now in the midst of one of the worse socialist atrocities of modern times, the people are defenceless against a dictator.

There's a saying, "Take a man and put a gun in his hand, sooner or later someone gets shot".

Never heard of it.

That aside it's a scathing indictment of the man in the fable and not the item used as per my list of examples above.

oldgit1897 · 05-06-2019 10:23pm

Cass wrote: »

Something extraordinary happened in Australia today. A paroled convict used a banned shotgun to open fire in downtown Darwin. He killed four people and wounded a fifth.

The firearm he used — a pump action shotgun — was banned in Australia 13 years ago. That’s beside the fact that it’s illegal for a parolee to possess a firearm. All this while wearing an ankle monitor.

So please, PLEASE, someone tell me how gun control works on criminals?

Well making something illegal means it disappears never to be seen again, like drugs.............Oh wait.

oldgit1897 · 05-06-2019 10:29pm

yubabill wrote: »

So our society would be safer if all of us licensed shooters gave up our guns?

Ullage.

And secondly, as regards someone getting shot - you are aware that target shooting has been going on in Ireland since mid-Victorian times without one - single- fatality?

Are you familiar with the hoops that have to be jumped to get a gun licence in Ireland?
there's a long list on this site somewhere.

You'll forgive me if I take offence at your comments.

All guns banned apart from .22 rifles and shotguns,from 1972. Boat loads and i do mean boat loads of firearms, rpg's, explosives were sent here by lovely people like Whitey Bulger, and Col Gadaffi, to the marxist socialist freedom fighters aka the IRA (show me your company and i'll tell you what you are) .

I think i am correct in saying at one point the provo's were better armed and funded than either the army or the guards.

So the ban did not make one jot of difference, despite what that dollop O'malley said.

Manic Moran · 06-06-2019 12:09am

Cass wrote: »

Never heard of it.

That aside it's a scathing indictment of the man in the fable and not the item used as per my list of examples above.

It could be Chekov's gun. If it exists, it must be used.

Cass · 06-06-2019 12:12am

Or remove the irrelevant parts.

Grizzly 45 · 06-06-2019 12:29am

deezell wrote: »

Easy. In a society where the visibility of guns is the exception rather than the rule, there's less likelihood of a person thinking of using a gun to go on a violent rampage, and even less opportunity to obtain one from the 'spillage' of legally obtained weapons, through theft or carelessness, into the hands of criminals. Forget about your craving for guns. Get a fishing rod, or a football, or a pool cue.

Four sports that have killed more people in the last 30 years in Ireland than legally held firearms have in the last century here.;)
Banning things,lets see how well that has worked...Prohibition in the USA...Nope !
The "war on drugs" ...Drugs are now cheaper than ever before on the streets in the Western world and continue to do so,and of course gun control works so well in Ireland doesnt it?Where our native drug gangs use genuine full auto AKs in hotels to shoot each other...Something that hasnt happened in the USA since 1934,when genuine full auto machine guns were last available to the public.Contary to media propaganda.
Women obtaining abortions in Ireland or abroad when it was illegal to do so...Nope! Reading banned litature in Ireland in the censerious past...Nope!

The UK,banned handguns post Dunblane..Scroll forward 2018.over 120 shootings in the greater London area with the said banned handguns..And over 200 stabbings and knifings in the exact same timeframe.Answer..Ban knives!!
But lets ban guns THAT will work!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

deezell · 06-06-2019 2:00pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

But lets ban guns THAT will work!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

It would help reduce the stats. You can't deny that. Ban smoking too. Save a lot if lives, but smoking deaths are self inflicted, only a few gun deaths are, and the unfortunates would find other means anyway.

BattleCorp · 06-06-2019 2:48pm

deezell wrote: »

It would help reduce the stats. You can't deny that. Ban smoking too. Save a lot if lives, but smoking deaths are self inflicted, only a few gun deaths are, and the unfortunates would find other means anyway.

You won't find anybody to see things from your viewpoint on this forum.

Personally I don't see how banning my guns would do anything other than p1ss me off. I've invested a lot of time and money into my sport and have made sure that I comply with all laws related to firearms.

My guns aren't used for criminal activities. They are only used for target shooting. They are licenced by the Gardai. I am fully vetted by the Gardaí. I comply with all safe storage laws so nobody else can access them.

How would banning guns that I store securely and use only for law abiding purposes help reduce stats?

Grizzly 45 · 06-06-2019 8:04pm

deezell wrote: »

It would help reduce the stats. You can't deny that. Ban smoking too. Save a lot if lives, but smoking deaths are self inflicted, only a few gun deaths are, and the unfortunates would find other means anyway.

You dont get it do you?? Banning things Does.Not.Work!END OF! Gun bans have not worked anywhere in the World and I would contend that they have contributed over 100million deaths globally in the 20th century via disarmed societies being easily murderd by their opressors.But ell us..How do you think a gun ban will stop the local drug gangs from killing each other in Dublin?As obviously legislation of bans is aimed at preventing such??

Cass · 06-06-2019 8:37pm

deezell wrote: »

It would help reduce the stats.

Drugs are illegal, does that mean they are not available? Even in prisons that are even more secure than our borders they are freely available.

So if something that is illegal can be gotten in such a "secure"place like a prison how do you think introducing more laws would stop their proliferation. Same applies to guns. Criminals don't abide by the law and according to An Gardaí most stolen guns are never recovered, and the same with guns use din crimes. So there are not stats, other than wild guessing, to support the claim that reducing private ownership will stem or even reduce illegal activities.

As i said above, and you've completely ignored all my points, should we ban all cars, vans, trucks, etc. to stop drink driving or terrorist attacks that used these vehicles? That is what you are calling for with firearms.

You can't deny that.

not only can i "deny" it i have said above and in my previous why its a moot point.

Ban smoking too. Save a lot if lives,

So ban anything that is not liked by the majority or in most cases the more mouthy minority?

In that case i have a list that starts with "man buns", short jeans, skinny jeans, hipsters in general, cyclists............... I could go on but you get the point.

but smoking deaths are self inflicted

If being fat, a drug addict, etc. is considered a disease in our new, "enlightened" era, surely an addiction like smoking is too.

...... only a few gun deaths are,.

11 in the last 5/7 years and over those 60% are not civilians, and two were accidental. More people have died playing GAA than from shooting sports.

Shooting sports is over 165 year old, older than the GAA. It has the safest, self imposed, safety record of ANY sport which in itself is a testament to the people involved, but considering the tools we use in our sport(s) its even more incredulous how safe the sport is.

I'd advise you, and i mean this genuinely plus i'd be happy to discuss it further with you, to look into the sport in more detail. You'd be surprised about what we [shooters] have to go through to get our firearms, the liberties we sacrifice, the Data protected stuff we have to sign away all to take part in a sport that is constantly compared to illegal activities carried out by scum.

kowloon · 07-06-2019 2:10am

oldgit1897 wrote: »

Never heard such crap. Why can't you have something in your own home as a wallhanger ? What makes something made before 1954 or made by hand less dangerous ? What about the contents of the shed ? I have an axe, a couple of hatchets, spades, pitchforks, are they not dangerous ?

It's so you can appreciate the fine artistry and craftsmanship of the sword as it goes through your neck.

tac foley · 07-06-2019 9:10am

kowloon wrote: »

It's so you can appreciate the fine artistry and craftsmanship of the sword as it goes through your neck.

Ah, but that's CRIMINAL, right?

oldgit1897 · 07-06-2019 4:49pm

kowloon wrote: »

It's so you can appreciate the fine artistry and craftsmanship of the sword as it goes through your neck.

Its a bit like saying if you have a Holland and Holland, or a Boss, or a Beretta SO, then you are safer than someone who only has a humble Baikal or Lanber. Snobbery enshrined in law. But nothing surprises me in this dreary place anymore.

Grizzly 45 · 16-06-2019 9:38pm

oldgit1897 wrote: »

"Silencers" :rolleyes:

Actually the correct legal term for them.So registerd by Hiriam P Maxim Jnr,the inventor of them 110 years ago.
Both are interchangeable and correct terms.

Silencer - The legal definition for a firearm suppression device
Suppressor - The technical definition for a firearm suppression device

https://www.silencershop.com/blog/post/silencer-suppressor.

Cass · 16-06-2019 9:45pm

Because some guy called it that back way back when doesn't mean he was right either.

Silence - complete absence of sound.

A silencer does not remove all sound from a shot, at least in 95% of guns (unless using sub sonic ammo, in a small cartridge/chambering.

All that aside i use the term suppressor for the same reason i use the term firearm and not weapon. We don't live in the States and don't have the protection of the second amendment so we must use some neutral or non inflammatory words when speaking. Is it fair, no, but as long as firearms are a privilege here we tread water every day.

oldgit1897 · 16-06-2019 9:48pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Maybe we should also ask Flanagan on the following?
[1] How many silencers have been found in criminal possesion that came from legal manufacturers[IE marked ith a trade name and serial nr?] or are homebuilt devices found in criminal possesion or use?

[2] How many silencers have been used in the last 25 years in gangland shootings in Ireland that are homemade or were stolen from civillian shooters in Ireland or came from ligit manufacturers??

Last time i bothered looking at anything to do with gangland ireland, there was one gang of headbangers wandering in to a boxing weigh-in with ak-47's to shoot another gang of headbangers, and they didn't care less who heard the shots.

Grizzly 45 · 16-06-2019 10:51pm

Cass wrote: »

Because some guy called it that back way back when doesn't mean he was right either.

Silence - complete absence of sound.

A silencer does not remove all sound from a shot, at least in 95% of guns (unless using sub sonic ammo, in a small cartridge/chambering.

Not necessarily true either.You can silence /suppress/muffle a 50 cal BMG or a 20mm Lathi using normal rounds.Lots of work and physics and sums involved,but its an uttr myth that you can only use subsonic in a firearm to silence it.

The said guy invented them and had the original patent for them. He was using the terminology common for his time,and no doubt would have made iallowances for revisionism and hair splitting 115 years later.
it is the SAME correct terminology for the same item.
But Hey What do I know?:rolleyes:

All that aside i use the term suppressor for the same reason i use the term firearm and not weapon.

And you are right as that is the technical term,it is the same as I use silencer as a legal term.

We don't live in the States and don't have the protection of the second amendment so we must use some neutral or non inflammatory words when speaking. Is it fair, no, but as long as firearms are a privilege here we tread water every day.

What is "inflamatory" about discussing a point of what is a correct definition in common English of a firearm component that is now common everyday terminology?

Lets put it like this?WHICH country has better definitions as to what an item is ,and which country has a classification on "silencers" and register them the same under Federal law as machine guns,destructive devices,sawn off shotguns and rifles,and demand a Federal backround check off any potential owners and a 200 dollar tax fee,as well as about a 1000 dollar price tag for a .22 silencer and have been doing so since 1934? And have been jailing wise guys who have tried this pendatism and word playing for just as long??

US Definition[ easy to understand]
(24) The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

Compared to Ireland where there is none because of laziness,ignorance, incompetence or deliberate obtuseness,or all four of the above,a to not even have a proper legal definition as to what a silencer/suppressor/sound modifier actually is??And if you were to challenge any State prosecution in an Irish court would be utterly unable to define the difference? Find me a definition that precisely describes what a "silencer,suppressor,muffler,sound modifier" is in this act?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1990/act/12/enacted/en/print#sec4

So in this case I do think the Americans do know what the correct definitions are compared to us.And the answer still is ALL of the above are correct definitions of a device put on a firearm intended to reduce,suppress,silence,muffle or otherwise affect the gun shot report.:)

Cass · 17-06-2019 12:31am

Everytime something like this comes up you come along with an argument that, if i didn't know you, would be great to use against us, or at the very least is cannon fodder for the opposing side. "Silencing a 50cal". I mean, come on. No one owns one, in Ireland and saying sh*t like that only enforces any notions our "enlightened" leaders may have that we are a community of snipers.

It's a suppressor. What laws are in other countries is less than moot as we are in Ireland. They use the word silencers out of ignorance, and watching too much TV. Doesn't mean we have to propagate the myth.

As for completely silencing a "normal" shot, this is my point above. It cannot happen so why say it can. Any bullet doing super sonic speeds makes a sonic boom that a suppressor cannot "silence". It suppresses the heard report at the gun/shooter's position, nothing more. By doing this, in hunting terms, the quarry cannot detect the location of the shooter. Couple that with less felt recoil, hearing protection, quick follow up shot, and the reasons for owning them are clear.

Lastly when i say inflammatory i am not referring to this discussion or the use/misuse of a word. I'm talking in general terms. We don't have the freedoms most other countries enjoy and so shooting sports tends to fly below the radar. We do this by not drawing attention to ourselves and not using provocative or "inflammatory" language that in any other country wouldn't get so much as a raised eyebrow.

Grizzly 45 · 17-06-2019 1:09pm

Cass wrote: »

Everytime something like this comes up you come along with an argument that, if i didn't know you, would be great to use against us, or at the very least is cannon fodder for the opposing side. "

Fuk it! I'm done..You win...:) But as Gallielo said after being tortured by the church and forced to recant his theories on the Earth going around the Sun."Yet it still does such".They are still legally defined as "silencers":P:P:P:P

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

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Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County