Irish language revival

Stop moaning ffs · 07-06-2019 10:30pm

blanch152 wrote: »

If you are asking me to produce racist people who admit that they are racist, well you know the answer. The statistics tell an uncomfortable story and the abundance of new Gaelscoileanna in relatively wealthy parts of Dublin complete the story. It is an uncomfortable truth for those who love the language, but ignoring it or pretending it isn't there isn't the answer.

I would say something. Given the evidence, the onus should be on Gaeilscoileanna to reach out to those groups unrepresented in their schools. There are schemes in the public service to increase the number of women in senior posts to reduce the gender inequality. That is an example of an organisation acting to ensure that there is no inequality in its ranks.

Your long history of anti Irish sentiment used to occasionally be amusing if not interesting. Your posts have now reached Gemma O Doherty levels of wtf crazy though.

You’re suggesting racism where there Is none at all and you can’t back it up.
This is a new low.

feargale · 07-06-2019 10:33pm

Simple_Simone wrote: »

Are we talking Joyful, Sorrowful or Glorious Mysteries? (Or would that be an ecumenical matter?)

Joyful at the time, sorrowful afterwards.

Reati · 08-06-2019 8:07am

feargale wrote: »

Joyful at the time, sorrowful afterwards.

It's Saturday and it's joyful day so the Internet tells me. We might as well kick off an auld decade to repent the sins of the thread.

I n-ainm an athar, agus an mhic, agus an sprid naoimh, áiméin.

in the name of the father, the son and the Holy spirit, amen

Creidim i nDia, an tAthair Uilechumhachtach, Cruthaitheoir Nimhe agus Talún, agus i nÍosa Críost a Aonmhac san ár dTiarna, do gabhadh ón Spriod Naomh, do rugadh ó Mhuire ógh, d'fhulaig páis fé Phointeas Píolóid, do céasadh ar an gcrois, fuair bás agus d'adhlacadh, chuaigh síos go hifreann, d'aiséirigh an treas lá ó mhairbhe, chuaigh suas ar neamh, tá ina shuí ar dheasláimh Dé an tAthair Uilechumhachtach, as san tiocfaidh ag tabhairt bhreithiúntais ar bheo is ar mhairbh. Creidim sa Spriod Naomh, sa naomh-Eaglais Chaitliceach, i gComaoine na Naomh, i Maithiúnachas na bPeacaí, i nAiséirí na Colla, is sa Bheatha Shíoraí. áiméin.

I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, Our Lord, Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified; died, and was buried. He descended into Hell; the third day He arose again from the dead; He ascended into Heaven, sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen

Ár nAthair, atá ar neamh, go naomhaítear t'ainm, go dtaga do ríocht, go ndeintear do thoil ar an dtalamh mar a deintear ar neamh. Ár n-arán laethúil tabhair dhúinn inniu, agus maith dhúinn ár gcionta mar a mhaithimíd do chách, agus ná lig sinn i gcathú, ach saor sinn ó olc. áiméin.

Our Father, Who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name; Thy kingdom come; Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil, Amen.

So forth and so on...

ted1 · 08-06-2019 8:08am

blanch152 wrote: »

If you are asking me to produce racist people who admit that they are racist, well you know the answer. The statistics tell an uncomfortable story and the abundance of new Gaelscoileanna in relatively wealthy parts of Dublin complete the story. It is an uncomfortable truth for those who love the language, but ignoring it or pretending it isn't there isn't the answer.

I would say something. Given the evidence, the onus should be on Gaeilscoileanna to reach out to those groups unrepresented in their schools. There are schemes in the public service to increase the number of women in senior posts to reduce the gender inequality. That is an example of an organisation acting to ensure that there is no inequality in its ranks.

Pure ****e.

Snow Garden · 08-06-2019 8:51am

The truth hurts blanch152

Reati · 08-06-2019 9:05am

Snow Garden wrote: »

The truth hurts blanch152

(We've talked alot of how Irish supposedly isn't taught well yet this sentence. )

Your sentence is correct. The truth does hurt Blanch152 directly that there is no proof of racism in Gaelscoileanna and he has been rightly called out on his "facts" and "evidence".

Snow Garden · 08-06-2019 12:54pm

Reati wrote: »

(We've talked alot of how Irish supposedly isn't taught well yet this sentence. )

Your sentence is correct. The truth does hurt Blanch152 directly that there is no proof of racism in Gaelscoileanna and he has been rightly called out on his "facts" and "evidence".

Tell me this - have you ever met a parent who admitted to being a racist?

Stop moaning ffs · 08-06-2019 1:32pm

Snow Garden wrote: »

Tell me this - have you ever met a parent who admitted to being a racist?

Have you ever met a school in Ireland that discriminated against kids based on their religion?

Oh wait. The vast majority of them.

But according to Blanch it’s only the gaelscoils that do it.

Reati · 08-06-2019 1:38pm

Snow Garden wrote: »

Tell me this - have you ever met a parent who admitted to being a racist?

Like in person or like in an media interview? A random parent or one that I know personally?

You're not very good at asking precision questions are you?

Snow Garden · 08-06-2019 2:20pm

Reati wrote: »

Like in person or like in an media interview? A random parent or one that I know personally?

You're not very good at asking precision questions are you?

It's a very simple question.

janfebmar · 08-06-2019 2:20pm

blanch152 wrote: »

My sole point is that some parents pick Gaelscoileanna because they know that their Johnny or their Mary won't be sitting beside a non-national or a traveller child. Like it or not, that is a reality.

.

Correct, and I think most parents who send their kids to GaelScoil will privately admit that is the reason. If parents want to teach their kids Irish language, they should pay for it themselves and do it outside school hours. A fine hobby if you are that way inclined.

Igotadose · 08-06-2019 2:23pm

janfebmar wrote: »

Correct, and I think most parents who send their kids to GaelScoil will privately admit that is the reason.

Nah. Incorrect. Privately admit? Uhuh. Trying not to laugh at that.

Why is it incorrect? Because it's what I think. So, it has the same weight as what you think.

And, I have many data points running an afterschool program showing Gaelscoileanna with many non-white students. So there. My opinion is right and yours is wrong.

janfebmar · 08-06-2019 2:26pm

Igotadose wrote: »

And, I have many data points running an afterschool program sho wing Gaelscoileanna with many non-white students. So there. My opinion is right and yours is wrong.

Last time I googled on Gaelscoileanna, 99% of the faces were white. Ask anyone who has kids going to one.

Snow Garden · 08-06-2019 2:31pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I have a problem with gaeilscoileanna because of the statistics:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/irish-speaking-schools-far-less-likely-to-have-overseas-students-1.3296113

"A Department of Education analysis of school enrolment for 2015/2016 shows non-Irish nationals accounted for 10.6 per cent of pupils in primary education. By contrast, among all-Irish primary schools, this fell to 1.6 per cent. A similar pattern is repeated at second level."

From this academic study:

http://mural.maynoothuniversity.ie/8563/1/Immigration%20and%20school%20composition%20in%20Ireland.pdf

"Immigrants are also less highly represented in Gaelscoileanna than in English-medium schools"

When you look into it and you see that Gaelscoileanna have less non-national pupils, less special needs pupils and less traveller children than English-medium schools, you have to wonder sometimes about the motivations of some of the parents.

Bump.

Hopefully RedC will do 'Are you a racist?' exit polls at Gaelscoils soon. Until then we will never know for sure

08-06-2019 2:36pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I have a problem with gaeilscoileanna because of the statistics:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/irish-speaking-schools-far-less-likely-to-have-overseas-students-1.3296113

"A Department of Education analysis of school enrolment for 2015/2016 shows non-Irish nationals accounted for 10.6 per cent of pupils in primary education. By contrast, among all-Irish primary schools, this fell to 1.6 per cent. A similar pattern is repeated at second level."

From this academic study:

http://mural.maynoothuniversity.ie/8563/1/Immigration%20and%20school%20composition%20in%20Ireland.pdf

"Immigrants are also less highly represented in Gaelscoileanna than in English-medium schools"

When you look into it and you see that Gaelscoileanna have less non-national pupils, less special needs pupils and less traveller children than English-medium schools, you have to wonder sometimes about the motivations of some of the parents.

One would have to be some class of a fool to believe that this isn't a consideration for some parents.

I'm all for Gaelscoileanna, I love them as a concept. But of course a proportion of parents are abusing them as some kind of class-based / nationality-based educational apartheid.

Reati · 08-06-2019 3:05pm

Snow Garden wrote: »

It's a very simple question.

Which one? Why can't you clarify the question? It's like talking to a bunch of ****ing politicians. Direct questions thanks!

janfebmar wrote: »

Last time I googled on Gaelscoileanna, 99% of the faces were white.

You said this before. I replied that I googled my old English medium school and it was all white faces too. Does that mean it was racist even though we had black lads in my class?

Also, this might shock you but not all foreigners are black :O

Anyway seen as you ignored it last time. What was your old school? Let's google it and see.

janfebmar wrote: »

Ask anyone who has kids going to one.

Ok sure.

Hey Reati, is there any foreign kids in your kids class? Sure is. There is two of them actually. Lovely kids they are too.

Snow Garden wrote: »

Bump.

Hopefully RedC will do 'Are you a racist?' exit polls at Gaelscoils soon. Until then we will never know for sure

Have you emailed the department of education? Why are you, janfebmar and the rest of the keyboard warriors of social justice in the Gaelscoileanna not bringing this outrageous discrimination to their attention, the attention of the media and every platform possible. You clearly feel passionate about fixing the perceived lack of diversity you are constantly telling us exists.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

One would have to be some class of a fool to believe that this isn't a consideration for some parents.

I'm all for Gaelscoileanna, I love them as a concept. But of course a proportion of parents are abusing them as some kind of class-based / nationality-based educational apartheid.

You say it like it's only a consideration for the tuismitheoirí of Gaelscoileanna kids. Like there is no racist parents of kids in English medium schools.

You'd have to be seriously dedicated to the old racism to choose to educate your children in a language you as a parent have no interest in learning or speaking in the slight off chance there might not be a foreign kid in the class.

Snow Garden · 08-06-2019 3:12pm

Methinks he doth protest too much..so you are finally admitting that 'some' parents may be racially motivated when sending their kids to Gaelscoils?

Reati · 08-06-2019 3:47pm

Oh no, I'm not moving on till you start answering the question put to you.

Reati wrote: »

Which one? Why can't you clarify the question? It's like talking to a bunch of ****ing politicians. Direct questions thanks!

Reati wrote: »

Have you emailed the department of education? Why are you, janfebmar and the rest of the keyboard warriors of social justice in the Gaelscoileanna not bringing this outrageous discrimination to their attention, the attention of the media and every platform possible. You clearly feel passionate about fixing the perceived lack of diversity you are constantly telling us exists.

08-06-2019 3:55pm

Reati wrote: »

You say it like it's only a consideration for the tuismitheoirí of Gaelscoileanna kids. Like there is no racist parents of kids in English medium schools.

Eh? How on earth did you at such an irrational inference from what I've just posted.

There may well be any number of racist parents who have no option but to send their kids to mainstream schools.

You'd have to be seriously dedicated to the old racism to choose to educate your children in a language you as a parent have no interest in learning or speaking in the slight off chance there might not be a foreign kid in the class.

Plenty of children who go to Gaelscoileanna have parents who cannot speak Irish. I would go so far as to say that, in my experience, most parents are not fluent in Irish.

You'd have to be deluded to deny that it is a convenient (and a grim) way of manipulating the system by ensuring that one's own child has access to better resources (ie the vast majority of children speak English as a first language). It's not necessarily racist.

Reati · 08-06-2019 4:07pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

You'd have to be deluded to deny that it is a convenient (and a grim) way of manipulating the system by ensuring that one's own child has access to better resources (ie the vast majority of children speak English as a first language). It's not necessarily racist.

I posted a heap of motivations for why parents send they kids to Gaelscoil. Indeed I posted the better resources ideal. I've agreed with not all are for the love of Irish but the continuous focus of a handful of posters is to simply call the Gaelscoileanna racist schools that have racist policies against enrolling non-Irish white kids. Are you in agreement with that view?

_blaaz · 08-06-2019 4:32pm

Reati wrote: »

I posted a heap of motivations for why parents send they kids to Gaelscoil. Indeed I posted the better resources ideal. I've agreed with not all are for the love of Irish but the continuous focus of a handful of posters is to simply call the Gaelscoileanna racist schools that have racist policies against enrolling non-Irish white kids. Are you in agreement with that view?

It is somewhat brilliant the way there isnt even a iota of evidence to support this assertion....but call anyone who questions it is deluded :pac:

I do love interwebs logic

ted1 · 08-06-2019 6:19pm

janfebmar wrote: »

Correct, and I think most parents who send their kids to GaelScoil will privately admit that is the reason. If parents want to teach their kids Irish language, they should pay for it themselves and do it outside school hours. A fine hobby if you are that way inclined.

My kids go to a GaelScoil. I have very poor Irish.
The school doesn’t cost the state more. The only difference is that instead of teaching through the English language they do it through the Irish language.

I choose the school as it’s the best around. There several kids who patents are from Australia , Asia and Eastern Europe. It’s in south Dublin so not a lot of kids of African descent in the area. It’s got the sane mix as other primary schools in the area.

Having 2 languages makes learning additional languages a breeze.

Snow Garden · 08-06-2019 8:10pm

Snow Garden wrote: »

Tell me this - have you ever met a parent who admitted to being a racist?

Yawn. Ok this is the question Reati. Which part are you struggling with?

I'll simplify. Have you ever met a person who told you they were racist?

I haven't myself. But I know they are out there.

RedC aren't polling on it yet either.

Snow Garden · 08-06-2019 8:12pm

Snow Garden wrote: »

Methinks he doth protest too much..so you are finally admitting that 'some' parents may be racially motivated when sending their kids to Gaelscoils?

Then you can answer this one. I don't mind if you want to play the ostrich but avoiding questions seems pointless given how strongly you feel.

Igotadose · 08-06-2019 8:20pm

Snow Garden wrote: »

Then you can answer this one. I don't mind if you want to play the ostrich but avoiding questions seems pointless given how strongly you feel.

Questions for you: Gaelscoils, as currently constituted and run, a good idea, or bad?

What would you change?

Reati · 08-06-2019 9:33pm

Snow Garden wrote: »

Have you ever met a person who told you they were racist?

Yes, I have. So what's that proven?

Snow Garden wrote: »

Then you can answer this one. I don't mind if you want to play the ostrich but avoiding questions seems pointless given how strongly you feel.

I'm not moving on till you start answering the questions put to you first. You have avoided every reply for majority of the thread. You can throw out all the little aggressions you want, I've little respect for you at this point. In fact, I'd have had more respect for you if you had just said you hate Irish, the idea of Gaelscoileanna or whatever your big chip is. Instead you want to pretend like your some defender of the social downtrodden. Tá tusa lán de.

Reati wrote: »

Have you emailed the department of education? Why are you, janfebmar and the rest of the keyboard warriors of social justice in the Gaelscoileanna not bringing this outrageous discrimination to their attention, the attention of the media and every platform possible. You clearly feel passionate about fixing the perceived lack of diversity you are constantly telling us exists.

Snow Garden · 08-06-2019 10:18pm

Reati wrote: »

Yes, I have. So what's that proven?

Tell me more. How many people told you they were racist?

I am trying to suggest that the vast majority of parents would never admit it so it's impossible to know for certain their motivations for sending their kids to Gaelscoils. Surely you must have an ounce of reasonable doubt.

Snow Garden · 08-06-2019 10:20pm

Igotadose wrote: »

Questions for you: Gaelscoils, as currently constituted and run, a good idea, or bad?

What would you change?

Are you his guardian?

I would change nothing whatsoever.

BarryD2 · 08-06-2019 10:45pm

The Gaelscoil movement has thrived for various reasons but not least because of state policy: the distorted marking system at Leaving Cert https://www.examinations.ie/?l=en&mc=ca&sc=im which gives additional marks where the papers are sat through Irish. And of course, for certain state jobs where competency in Irish is a requirement.

You can argue back and forwards whether this 'discrimination' is justified or not, but the fact is that it exists and parents look at it and try and maximise the potential benefits for their children. It's a logical response to a system that's on offer.

Whatever about state jobs, I'm quite surprised that the additional marks system has survived as long as this without a legal case. It is in essence openly discriminatory against other citizens taking their exams through English. Presumably it's based on the Irish language being in a preeminent place in the constitution. But of course, the de facto reality is that English is the lingua franca of the citizenry at large, so there is a tension between reality and the notional aims of the constitution. Since the benefits of the additional marks doesn't affect the higher achieving students is probably the reason that it has been tolerated. But that is no comfort to those lower down the pecking order who may lose out of college courses purely on the language they took their exams in.

ted1 · 09-06-2019 12:07am

BarryD2 wrote: »

The Gaelscoil movement has thrived for various reasons but not least because of state policy: the distorted marking system at Leaving Cert https://www.examinations.ie/?l=en&mc=ca&sc=im which gives additional marks where the papers are sat through Irish. And of course, for certain state jobs where competency in Irish is a requirement.

You can argue back and forwards whether this 'discrimination' is justified or not, but the fact is that it exists and parents look at it and try and maximise the potential benefits for their children. It's a logical response to a system that's on offer.

Whatever about state jobs, I'm quite surprised that the additional marks system has survived as long as this without a legal case. It is in essence openly discriminatory against other citizens taking their exams through English. Presumably it's based on the Irish language being in a preeminent place in the constitution. But of course, the de facto reality is that English is the lingua franca of the citizenry at large, so there is a tension between reality and the notional aims of the constitution. Since the benefits of the additional marks doesn't affect the higher achieving students is probably the reason that it has been tolerated. But that is no comfort to those lower down the pecking order who may lose out of college courses purely on the language they took their exams in.

It’s Partly due to lack of support resources, try getting grinds or books etc in Irish. That cover history , geography, physics, applied maths etc

Irish language revival

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