Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

thesaturdayman · 03-06-2019 11:48am

Another point worth noting - think someone said it on here before, we’ve taken plenty tankings down the years.

The tipp game felt much different & the thing concerned me the most was I knew Derek etc & prob to be fair Davy before him, could manage their way out of it, circle the wagons etc.

based on my own experience & that of others, Pauric fanning isn’t the same kind of mgr ie we win together we lose together, shefflin certainly said as much last night.

Now we have a situation with players and mgt - the county board need to intervene if there is anything to them at all. See out the season & step down en masse.

I don’t see it happening, but I hope for the good of future generations they will. Said it before, we are headed for Offaly territory.

lim4ev · 03-06-2019 11:50am

Motivator wrote: »

I’m still shocked by what I witnessed yesterday. Standing on the terrace watching Waterford attack the goal we were behind in the first half was an embarrassment and having Limerick fans beside us laughing at us 20 minutes into the game is a new low point for me.

Behind the goal we were able to see the Waterford plan, or lack thereof, in full view. It was non existent. No movement from the forwards, no attempt to make a move for a player delivering in any balls, no guts. Contrast that to Limerick in the second half where they had three players in their full forward line and each time one of their backs got a ball in his hand it triggered the full forward line into action - making runs, dragging their marker out of position, finding space. Waterford did the complete opposite in the first half and it was demoralising watching Maurice Shanahan standing still waiting for a ball to drop on him only for it to land 10 yards away from him every time. I lost count of the amount of times in the first half where there was one forward within 25 yards of the Limerick goal and a ball just came sailing over into acres of space or out over the endline. It was brain dead stuff from start to finish and you wouldn’t see it happening in an underage game.

I have to ask the question, how bad is the standard of training that the senior panel are operating at? There’s multiple All Stars and a hurler of the year on the panel, what goes on at training if this is how the team comes prepared for a game to save their season and more importantly any bit of pride they have in themselves? They look unfit, way underconditioned for the cut and thrust of Championship hurling and mentally they look lost. An inter county team warm up should be high intensity yet for the last three games Waterford’s has been club level challenge match stuff. Awful first touch, misplaced passes to teammates from 15 yards away in a straight line, no intensity. To be honest, they looked like lads that just wanted to turn up and get the match out of the way so they can move on as quickly as possible.

Fanning has looked lost from the moment the ball was thrown in against Clare. Baffling team selections, even more baffling substations and a complete lack of in game reaction from him or the selectors. He’s clearly out of his depth and I was reluctant to put the boot into him but after yesterday I think the whole lot of them are fair game. Yesterday cost me €150 to attend the match and the way I’m feeling at the moment I’d nearly write to the Co. Board and ask them to refund me. For nearly 30 years I’d have paid any money and gone anywhere to watch Waterford play but next Saturday they’re playing on my doorstep and I won’t be there. I can’t put myself through another performance like what we’ve seen the last three weeks. I’ll take a break and come back in January when I’ve calmed down. That’s if there’s a team to support in 2020.

One more thing, I can see a reaction from the management, the board or the media next Saturday when there will be about 500 Waterford people in Cork. That supporters have abandoned the team etc. it won’t bother me in the slightest if there is. I’ve never before looked at a fixture and said I’m not going but next Saturday is different. I’m always of the opinion that the players deserve respect and support no matter what but after yesterday I think respect goes out the window for all concerned. Imagine a teenager with a bit of ability and ambition to play intercounty hurling for Waterford watching that yesterday? This season will have consequences for years to come and that’s not an exaggeration. We are in the **** big time baby.

I can assure you I wasn't one of the Limerick people laughing at you and wouldn't think there was many this wasn't Waterford as we know them, yes teams qualities too and fro but lack of heart and fight should be a constant

Dont Stop · 03-06-2019 11:56am

spideyman92 wrote: »

As bad as it was yesterday, think it was bad form for Dónal Óg to single out Aussie last night. Yea he was poor but so were the majority of his teammates. Pinning blame on the lad for the game when he only played half of it. Didn't go on and single out any of the Clare players afterwards despite their result. Unnecessary and a bit too personal for my liking.

Donal Og loves being controversial. He spoke also about players not giving their all for their county and manager...and theres no excuses for that. Didnt he initiate a player strike, refusing to play for his own manager (a gentle man in Gerald McCarthy) so this is typical Donal Og seeking attention, as he often does on the only platform who will listen to him, now, since the 'letter of reference', incident.

Motivator · 03-06-2019 11:59am

lim4ev wrote: »

I can assure you I wasn't one of the Limerick people laughing at you and wouldn't think there was many this wasn't Waterford as we know them, yes teams qualities too and fro but lack of heart and fight should be a constant

I wasn’t saying to have a dig at Limerick fans, they were laughing at what they were seeing and I can’t blame them. From one of the big counties to put in a performance like that it was shameful. Limerick are the All Ireland champions, they were coming off the back of a poor performance against Cork. These used to be the type of games that Waterford relished - fans and players alike. Yesterday it looked like the players and management would rather have been anywhere else but Walsh Park.

God be with the days of the flags, bunting, air horns and excitement that surrounded Waterford in the summer. We didn’t realise how good we had it from 1998 to 2007. Those were the glory days for Waterford and their supporters. Since 2007 we’ve had about 3 good days out with the county and it’s actually depressing to see how we’ve ended up. Looking back we were probably lucky to reach the final in 2017 and Jesus with a bit of luck we could have nicked it from Galway. Since 5 o clock that day in 2017 it’s gone from bad to worse for us.

chinguetti · 03-06-2019 12:05pm

I was at the Dublin league match and the warm up was dire, touch and pass drills were shocking but as they got to the League final, this slackness was masked. This was also the case at the League final warm up. League and championship are different and the management and players haven't upped their game.

Looking at yesterday, no game plan seemed to be in place and that falls to the manager. The lack of effort falls on the players. Highlighting Glesson on the Sunday Game in my mind was a case of this is what the guy can do and this is what he did today. For whatever reason, his mind hasn't been in it with a while. Young player who became a star in a few months and now it looks like he is feeling the pressure.

Fanning's interview was laughable. The panel has a problem in attitude and discipline and this is down to the management. If the players are off at the races drinking or booking holidays to America, they're not in the mindset and that shows an unhappy camp. Watching Ken trying to explain the match at full time yesterday, you could sense his shock at the lack of effort.

The County Board can go and redevelop all the grounds they want, no one will come and watch the county team if they keep up that level of performance. Kerry and Carlow would fancy their chances if they got us now and if we do get Kerry in a relegation play off, we could be in trouble. That's how far we've come in 18 months.

willbeuptuesday · 03-06-2019 12:17pm

friendlyfun wrote: »

They're only 9 years old ffs. Are people really that critical of under 10s?

I'm complaining about the structures, its the same all they way up. Other counties take it more seriously and as a result are able to produce players that can compete. We have very few matches which are competitive in terms of ability in comparison to other counties because half our teams play in a different division. Limerick went back to the drawing board with the raising the treaty initiative over a decade ago and they won an Ireland. We need long term planning which allows our kids to develop.

Motivator · 03-06-2019 12:30pm

I would think the Co.Board need to step in and issue a statement explaining what’s gone wrong in such a short space of time. Will they do it? Not a chance.

Management and players, or a number of players - captain and a few others - need to be hauled in in front of the board to go through everything from start to finish. If the situation isn’t fixed or at least attempts are made to fix it then what’s coming down the line won’t be pretty. The commercial implications will be catastrophic to an already cash strapped Co.Board. Performance related sponsorship deals are no good when the county can’t win a match in either grade at senior or minor level and if the u20 hurlers get beaten then it’s a clean sweep of defeats at competitive level for all our teams. Depressing stuff.

LMK · 03-06-2019 12:35pm

spideyman92 wrote: »

As bad as it was yesterday, think it was bad form for Dónal Óg to single out Aussie last night. Yea he was poor but so were the majority of his teammates. Pinning blame on the lad for the game when he only played half of it. Didn't go on and single out any of the Clare players afterwards despite their result. Unnecessary and a bit too personal for my liking.

I agree highlighting Austin Gleeson's performance was unnecessary, Donal Og Cusack tends to over emphasise his opinions.. I also thought that Henry Shefflin didn't come across well.
Cusack frequently highlights in a positive manner Goalkeepers performances and I recall him commenting how physically brave a keeper has to be.. in the Tipp Clare game yesterday the Clare goalie performed a not very brave attempt (but a dangerous one) at blocking Tipps 3rd goal no one made an observation on that.

In general this year so far apart from watching Tipp (and maybe Cork) I think Hurling lacks excitement it is veering into the realm of the tactical and is in danger of becoming boring for both supporters and players..

Spatters · 03-06-2019 1:01pm

Since yesterday, all I’m hearing from friends and supporters alike is about a waste of a ‘Golden Generation’.
What are we on about? What Kilkenny, Tipp and Cork had were a Golden Generation because they produced numerous minor and u21 teams close together that formed the backbone of all Ireland winning teams. We are expecting to win one on the back of the same players who won minor & u21- they are the same team. We need at least another minor & u21 success to follow these lads.
Every County now has at least 1/2 marquee forwards, we don’t have any.
Our backs can’t defend because they’re used to having a sweeper
Our good players are getting old and struggling with the pace.
Senior Club championship is attrocious.
There is so much wrong that its hard to know where to start but Co Board are at the center of the issue.

Stacksofwacks · 03-06-2019 2:36pm

Fanning needs to walk away for his own good and everyone elses, those last 2 defeats reminded me of the pre-98 days. Could Henry Shefflin be an option I wonder? I think people exaggerate to say we will go like Offaly, there is too much hurling tradition in this county in comparison to Offaly but we have had long fallow periods before. The last 20 years have been great although we havent won an All Ireland. The 20 years before that now thats what we dont want to go back to

Ri na hEireann · 03-06-2019 2:36pm

A huge problem for Waterford is the gulf in class between our forwards and most other counties. Look at the starting forwards for Tipp yesterday. You had Bonnar, Bubbles and Callanan in there. Cork have Hoggy, Harnedy and Lehane. Limerick - Gillane, Hayes etc. Our forwards don’t win enough ball and just don’t put the ball over the bar enough. With the exception of whoever’s on the frees nobody is scoring consistently, and that’s a huge problem notwithstanding what appears to be tactical cluelessness on the line.

Road-Hog · 03-06-2019 2:44pm

Ri na hEireann wrote: »

A huge problem for Waterford is the gulf in class between our forwards and most other counties. Look at the starting forwards for Tipp yesterday. You had Bonnar, Bubbles and Callanan in there. Cork have Hoggy, Harnedy and Lehane. Limerick - Gillane, Hayes etc. Our forwards don’t win enough ball and just don’t put the ball over the bar enough. With the exception of whoever’s on the frees nobody is scoring consistently, and that’s a huge problem notwithstanding what appears to be tactical cluelessness on the line.

Waterford have plenty of talented forwards every bit as taleated as those you mention.......Lehane and harnady........??? Up until last year nobody had heard of gillane Hayes etc. Tipp lads yes. They have had serious talent in forwards but failed to deliver post 2010 when everyone thought they would dominate. Kk gave them an massive hiding in the semi in 2011 and it toook another 5 years for them to get back to winning ways. So all not totally gone but something has to change for next season or Offaly here we come

SW1985 · 03-06-2019 2:52pm

Spatters wrote: »

Since yesterday, all I’m hearing from friends and supporters alike is about a waste of a ‘Golden Generation’.
What are we on about? What Kilkenny, Tipp and Cork had were a Golden Generation because they produced numerous minor and u21 teams close together that formed the backbone of all Ireland winning teams. We are expecting to win one on the back of the same players who won minor & u21- they are the same team. We need at least another minor & u21 success to follow these lads.
Every County now has at least 1/2 marquee forwards, we don’t have any.
Our backs can’t defend because they’re used to having a sweeper
Our good players are getting old and struggling with the pace.
Senior Club championship is attrocious.
There is so much wrong that its hard to know where to start but Co Board are at the center of the issue.

This golden generation stuff is a meme. We haven't produced forwards who can handle senior hurling. This has been apparent from the start to those who were perceptive enough to see it (Derek for one).

It's a talented group but this narrative that all we needed was a manager to let them go hurl was never anything other than pure BS.

Mac_Lad71 · 03-06-2019 2:54pm

I know from a Cork perspective John Meyler has used the league to blood young players from underage and UCC Fitzgibbon cup teams.

John Kiely has been doing the same as Paddy O Loughlin who made his debut yesterday was part of this years UCC Fitzgibbon cup winning team.

What has happened to the likes of Patrick Curran who was v prominent with DCU?

Spatters · 03-06-2019 3:13pm

Road-Hog wrote: »

Waterford have plenty of talented forwards every bit as taleated as those you mention.......Lehane and harnady........??? Up until last year nobody had heard of gillane Hayes etc. Tipp lads yes. They have had serious talent in forwards but failed to deliver post 2010 when everyone thought they would dominate. Kk gave them an massive hiding in the semi in 2011 and it toook another 5 years for them to get back to winning ways

Disagree with you completely.
Give me one forward that is in the same league as Harnedy, Gillane, Bubbles, Horgan, Callinan, John McGrath, Lehane. If we had any one of those we’d be delighted.
Tipp won another All Ireland since 2010, they mightn’t have dominated but they have always been there or there abouts- we are still waiting.
Not one of the current forward line would have made the 2002-2008 Waterford forward line. We have no Paul Flynn, Ken McGrath, Eoin Kelly, John Mullane, Seamus Prendergast, Dan Shanahan.
We are so devoid of forwards, we’re playing backs up there- Shane Bennett, Austin Gleeson, Brick Walsh.
We have good players but no marquee attacking player of the calibre of Joe Canning, TJ Reid, Callinan
Lets take the blinkers off please.

JesusRef · 03-06-2019 3:14pm

McGrath was there for five years, how could we have no succession plan with a bit of continuity?

On the Deise colleges, Waterford Schools have enough pupils from Hurling clubs to stand on their own two feet at colleges.

But to do that scrap development squads, target 5-10 Secondary schools and let them be the new breeding ground for players or a replacement for development squads

SW1985 · 03-06-2019 3:17pm

Mac_Lad71 wrote: »

I know from a Cork perspective John Meyler has used the league to blood young players from underage and UCC Fitzgibbon cup teams.

John Kiely has been doing the same as Paddy O Loughlin who made his debut yesterday was part of this years UCC Fitzgibbon cup winning team.

What has happened to the likes of Patrick Curran who was v prominent with DCU?

Personally I think he's too soft for senior inter county hurling. Not sure how you coach that out of someone.

Road-Hog · 03-06-2019 3:17pm

Spatters wrote: »

Disagree with you completely.
Give me one forward that is in the same league as Harnedy, Gillane, Bubbles, Horgan, Callinan, John McGrath, Lehane. If we had any one of those we’d be delighted.
Tipp won another All Ireland since 2010, they mightn’t have dominated but they have always been there or there abouts- we are still waiting.
Not one of the current forward line would have made the 2002-2008 Waterford forward line. We have no Paul Flynn, Ken McGrath, Eoin Kelly, John Mullane, Seamus Prendergast, Dan Shanahan.
We are so devoid of forwards, we’re playing backs up there- Shane Bennett, Austin Gleeson, Brick Walsh.
We have good players but no marquee attacking player of the calibre of Joe Canning, TJ Reid, Callinan
Lets take the blinkers off please.

No blinkers......

friendlyfun · 03-06-2019 3:20pm

spideyman92 wrote: »

As bad as it was yesterday, think it was bad form for Dónal Óg to single out Aussie last night. Yea he was poor but so were the majority of his teammates. Pinning blame on the lad for the game when he only played half of it. Didn't go on and single out any of the Clare players afterwards despite their result. Unnecessary and a bit too personal for my liking.

Gleeson gets a disproportionate amount of blame for Waterfords problems.

willbeuptuesday · 03-06-2019 3:30pm

JesusRef wrote: »

McGrath was there for five years, how could we have no succession plan with a bit of continuity?

On the Deise colleges, Waterford Schools have enough pupils from Hurling clubs to stand on their own two feet at colleges.

But to do that scrap development squads, target 5-10 Secondary schools and let them be the new breeding ground for players or a replacement for development squads

Totally Agree with this post, we need to focus on all energy into the secondary schools. The raw talent is there from 13-17 years and they are in school from Sept to June. If we put in place a structure to Kerry. Top coaches in each of the schools supported by specialists provided by Co Board ie.. sports science, nutrition etc.. the result for Kerry is 6 of the quarterfinalists in the Munster colleges are Kerry Schools, this has been consistent for the past number of years and as a result 5 All Ireland Minors in a row and by all accounts another to follow this year. It wont be long before they dethrone Dublin.

friendlyfun · 03-06-2019 3:31pm

Motivator wrote: »

I wasn’t saying to have a dig at Limerick fans, they were laughing at what they were seeing and I can’t blame them. From one of the big counties to put in a performance like that it was shameful. Limerick are the All Ireland champions, they were coming off the back of a poor performance against Cork. These used to be the type of games that Waterford relished - fans and players alike. Yesterday it looked like the players and management would rather have been anywhere else but Walsh Park.

God be with the days of the flags, bunting, air horns and excitement that surrounded Waterford in the summer. We didn’t realise how good we had it from 1998 to 2007. Those were the glory days for Waterford and their supporters. Since 2007 we’ve had about 3 good days out with the county and it’s actually depressing to see how we’ve ended up. Looking back we were probably lucky to reach the final in 2017 and Jesus with a bit of luck we could have nicked it from Galway. Since 5 o clock that day in 2017 it’s gone from bad to worse for us.

2004 Munster hurling final. Absolute pure magic. There was beautiful relationship between the crowd and players that just isn't there now.

The likes of Mullane and Shanahan could get the crowds roaring. I remember Sexton Street had every single house with blue and white bunting.

Ken McGrath was absolutely dispirited yesterday and it was honestly sad.

Ri na hEireann · 03-06-2019 3:35pm

Road-Hog wrote: »

Waterford have plenty of talented forwards every bit as taleated as those you mention.......Lehane and harnady........???

Are you serious? What Waterford forwards are on a par with any of the players I mentioned? Lehane and Harnedy are better than anything we’ve to offer.

Road-Hog · 03-06-2019 4:01pm

Ri na hEireann wrote: »

Are you serious? What Waterford forwards are on a par with any of the players I mentioned? Lehane and Harnedy are better than anything we’ve to offer.

Where were these two in the semi in 2017......

What about Clare after yesterday.......they are not gone yet but most likely will join Waterford next weekend......is there talk of Clare becoming the next offay by their ‘fans’

Motivator · 03-06-2019 4:08pm

Ri na hEireann wrote: »

Are you serious? What Waterford forwards are on a par with any of the players I mentioned? Lehane and Harnedy are better than anything we’ve to offer.

We don’t have the forwards. We have lads that are knocking around the panel for a few years but physically they’re minor hurlers.

7 different players have started in the full forward line for Waterford in the Championship and have contributed a grand total of 5 points from play between them.

Pauric Mahony gone from Saturday’s game means we are short our only natural free taker. Cork meanwhile will be looking to put up a big score to avoid going out on points difference and there’ll be lads playing for a spot on the team against Clare the following week. I fear the worst is yet to come for us and Saturday will be an absolute horror show from the very start. I genuinely can’t see us putting double figures on the scoreboard.

Road-Hog · 03-06-2019 4:11pm

Road-Hog wrote: »

Where were these two in the semi in 2017......

What about Clare after yesterday.......they are not gone yet but most likely will join Waterford next weekend......is there talk of Clare becoming the next offay by their ‘fans’

Who recalls the defeat to Wexford in 2003......I remember dan being slated as much as gleeson is now......he disappeared but came back to form again eventually and won hurler of year....!

cul beag · 03-06-2019 4:33pm

Some very productive ideas being posted and having spoken to fellow supporters today there is definitely an undercurrent of dissatisfaction growing with the whole regime including management and county board. To change the cartel that is running both Eastern/Western boards along with the county board will take years. It’s something that definitely needs to be done along with the dismantling of both divisional boards.

thesaturdayman · 03-06-2019 4:35pm

cul beag wrote: »

Some very productive ideas being posted and having spoken to fellow supporters today there is definitely an undercurrent of dissatisfaction growing with the whole regime including management and county board. To change the cartel that is running both Eastern/Western boards along with the county board will take years. It’s something that definitely needs to be done along with the dismantling of both divisional boards.

It won’t happen, like any thing remotely bad, those stooges will need to be surgically removed. Our secretary will happily draw down his weekly wage, no plan to change, no accountability.

Maybe a protest march might show them how pissed off people are with it all.

sportsfan90 · 03-06-2019 4:37pm

Cork man here...

I agree that Donal Og was a bit ott in his criticism towards Gleeson. He's still a young player who has the potential to be one of the greats, even if he has been under-performing this year and last. Just because he won player of the year a few years back some people think it allows them to say whatever the hell they want about him the minute he doesn't reach those standards in a game.

From what little I've seen of Prunty at FB he's been excellent and could be your long term solution there if he's not moved out to the half back line.

Looking ahead to next week, on form Cork should have enough. Then again we played ye in the final game last year aswell when ye were already eliminated and it was only in the last few minutes that Cork pulled away so you never know.

While of course I'll be hoping Cork beat ye next weekend, it was sad to see a legend like Ken McGrath yesterday being so downbeat when I think back of the Cork V Waterford battles during his career.

thesaturdayman · 03-06-2019 5:15pm

Am I right in saying that Waterford are the only county in Munster without a center of excellence and / or plans to develop one?

Wexford & Carlow definitely have them - have Kilkenny?

Jesus this is frightening the more I read into it - asleep at the wheel is an understatement

Ropaire · 03-06-2019 5:27pm

thesaturdayman wrote: »

It won’t happen, like any thing remotely bad, those stooges will need to be surgically removed. Our secretary will happily draw down his weekly wage, no plan to change, no accountability.

Maybe a protest march might show them how pissed off people are with it all.

We couldn't fill out Walsh Park for our first home game when there was still some optimism around the place, so I can't see enough interest to manage a protest march with enough numbers to make anyone take notice.

An online petition for a single issue of consequence like removing the East and West County stuff where ya just have to click in and sign it would be easier to handle though, and much easier to promote.

Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

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