Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

Ropaire

JesusRef wrote: »

Prunty and Calum Lyons played so well til the end today.
In their 1st year in I feel bad for the lads.

Prunty played on the U21 team in 2016, although a great player, he was not one of the main men of the side....

How is he now out performing all those players in his 1st year.... Players with 5 years experience under their belt. It doesn't make sense

He didn't spend 5 years in "the system" so the hurling hasn't been coached out of the lad yet.

SW1985

Ropaire wrote: »

He didn't spend 5 years in "the system" so the hurling hasn't been coached out of the lad yet.

Knew someone would find away to have a dig at McGrath. The obsession is embarrassing

Ropaire

SW1985 wrote: »

Knew someone would find away to have a dig at McGrath. The obsession is embarrassing

I like McGrath, sound man. Hated his tactics though and don't think anyone who played in those teams for years will suddenly be able to switch to something new in a few games.

Road-Hog

Ropaire wrote: »

I like McGrath, sound man. Hated his tactics though and don't think anyone who played in those teams for years will suddenly be able to switch to something new in a few games.

Yes. Think only option is to get Mcgrath back next season.

SW1985

Ropaire wrote: »

I like McGrath, sound man. Hated his tactics though and don't think anyone who played in those teams for years will suddenly be able to switch to something new in a few games.

I thought his tactics were perfect for the group of players he had to be totally honest. We always put up high scores and were tough to beat.

I think many fell for the "golden generation of forwards" meme. Derek actually saw them for what they were at the time and realised he couldn't build the team around them. Have the likes of Patrick Curran proved him wrong since?

Ropaire

I wouldn't have mcgrath back at all, he had his time and his tactics got sussed out in the end. Would probably go outside the county for a manager but not sure what front line candidate would want it! We've plenty we can fix internally from the east/west intermediate championships to schools to try and up the standard in general as plenty of people have said as well.

We may see this year out before getting to that. Hammered in 2 games and v poor in the third, wasn't expecting much from this year but that was abysmal really. And our home crowd was a fn joke, I blame all of ye for that lads, scandalous "support". Didn't hear one of ye.

One game left to salvage some bit of pride, but it's probably too late for even that now.

Ballooning ball down field all day was pointless, soky can do better with puckouts but there didn't seem to be any strategy for these so what can he do?

Full back line didn't do too bad other than lads losing their men for goals, but that can be fixed with coaching. Can't do much about it in a week but they're not too bad now.

De burca looked more comfortable at wing back when played there, gleeson may as well go center back as he can't affect a game from anywhere else so instead of trying to rob Peter to pay Paul and ending up owing them both a few quid just put him center back to hell. He's capable of scoring as much from there as from half forward and if there's lads inside he'll find them too.
It'd free Moran up to go back midfield with Barron, they've been solid there before and is pretty much still our best pairing there. If it's not firing would have Jack pender to come in there.

The forwards though, jesus where do you start to fix that shambles? Shame that the likes of Paudi Pender aren't on the panel, but they aren't so would go for half forward line of Maurice/Mahoney,/Shane Bennett and full forward line of Peter Hogan/Stephen Bennett/Tommy Ryan.
It doesn't matter who you name up there if we can't win primary possession though, we'd have to sort out our own puckouts for a start and stop standing off teams giving them space for theirs.

Don't think there's any fight left in these lads for the year looking at the way they played today though, it's got to be hard to pick themselves up in the space of a week to go again. I love all the posts with lads feeling sorry for themselves whingeing about the performances too. How do ye think the players and management feel around now?

_blaaz

SW1985 wrote: »

I thought his tactics were perfect for the group of players he had to be totally honest. We always put up high scores and were tough to beat.

I think many fell for the "golden generation of forwards" meme. Derek actually saw them for what they were at the time and realised he couldn't build the team around them. Have the likes of Patrick Curran proved him wrong since?

His tactics were going nowhere though?


Tipp showed them up in a munster final....at a time when tipp werent a patch on.the way they are now...there also serious questions and allegations lie over a league semi final vs galway and his refusal to play or even try new players outside of his group of favourites (some of whom mysteriously retired at young enough age when he left?)



Lets not kid ourself here

Gavlor

Gavlor wrote: »

Can people stop banging on about the golden generation now?

A golden generation doesn’t go almost two years without winning a championship game regardless of the management. 7 defeats on the spin and counting

0-8 and counting. Depressing stuff. I read earlier that we’re 3 wins from 19 Munster games. I reckon we had a better win rate in the 80s!

SW1985

_blaaz wrote: »

His tactics were going nowhere though?


Tipp showed them up in a munster final....at a time when tipp werent a patch on.the way they are now...there also serious questions and allegations lie over a league semi final vs galway and his refusal to play or even try new players outside of his group of favourites (some of whom mysteriously retired at young enough age when he left?)



Lets not kid ourself here

Every manager will have bad days. They were rarely repeated and we nearly won the all Ireland that year.

What serious allegations????

Ropaire

SW1985 wrote: »

I thought his tactics were perfect for the group of players he had to be totally honest. We always put up high scores and were tough to beat.

I think many fell for the "golden generation of forwards" meme. Derek actually saw them for what they were at the time and realised he couldn't build the team around them. Have the likes of Patrick Curran proved him wrong since?

Have we played any decent hurling since? Defenders skyed balls out of defence in Derek's time in charge with no one under it to win it. They still sky the ball down on top of small forwards giving them no chance to win it, it's like it's muscle memory at this stage and it'll take a bit of coaching to get it out of them, coaching it would appear fanning hasn't been able to give. Slapping ball straight up the line is bread and butter to defenders and gives the forward no hope of winning it, which seems to be the default plan. There's plenty to be gotten from those lads with the right supply.

_blaaz

SW1985 wrote: »

Every manager will have bad days. They were rarely repeated and we nearly won the all Ireland that year.

What serious allegations????

Now now....i have no interest in being in court for slander....but 10 pts up with a reserve team...bring on 1st team starters and lose.match,


Work.that one out for yourself





Nearly never won fcuk all....galway were 8 to 10 pts better than us that day in the all ireland and if had any interest in getting goals....inspite of this much vaunted system opened.us up at least 4 times and shouldve.converted those chamces.....its all the one anyway he had lost tge dressing room.with several.players walking off the panel and refusing to play.for him.....wanting him.back is a kick.in the face for player welfare and would prob see a strike here

SW1985

Ropaire wrote: »

Have we played any decent hurling since? Defenders skyed balls out of defence in Derek's time in charge with no one under it to win it. They still sky the ball down on top of small forwards giving them no chance to win it, it's like it's muscle memory at this stage and it'll take a bit of coaching to get it out of them, coaching it would appear fanning hasn't been able to give. Slapping ball straight up the line is bread and butter to defenders and gives the forward no hope of winning it, which seems to be the default plan. There's plenty to be gotten from those lads with the right supply.

This is fanciful. He's had enough time to put some sort of stamp on how they play. They look completely lost. No plan, no focus, no ideas.

willietherock

McGrath spent 10 mins on national radio defending his tenure and finished by sticking the knife beautifully into PF by bringing scoring avg during his time compared to now. Classy.Sean Power the next Waterford manager?

SW1985

_blaaz wrote: »

Now now....i have no interest in being in court for slander....but 10 pts up with a reserve team...bring on 1st team starters and lose.match,


Work.that one out for yourself





Nearly never won fcuk all....galway were 8 to 10 pts better than us that day in the all ireland and if had any interest in getting goals....inspite of this much vaunted system opened.us up at least 4 times and shouldve.converted those chamces.....its all the one anyway he had lost tge dressing room.with several.players walking off the panel and refusing to play.for him.....wanting him.back is a kick.in the face for player welfare and would prob see a strike here

Your implication is clear. And shameful.

Is there an ignore function on this thing?

Ropaire

SW1985 wrote: »

This is fanciful. He's had enough time to put some sort of stamp on how they play. They look completely lost. No plan, no focus, no ideas.

What did I say thays fanciful?

_blaaz

SW1985 wrote: »

Your implication is clear. And shameful.

Is there an ignore function on this thing?

Meh...im.not one defending it

SW1985

willietherock wrote: »

McGrath spent 10 mins on national radio defending his tenure and finished by sticking the knife beautifully into PF by bringing scoring avg during his time compared to now. Classy.Sean Power the next Waterford manager?

Considering the abuse he got for being too negative I think scoring average is pretty ****ing relevant to be totally honest.

SW1985

Ropaire wrote: »

What did I say thays fanciful?

The silly stuff about muscle memory and Fanning not being able to train it out of them. A managers job is to give clear direction to his players. If he cant do that what's the point in him?

Ropaire

SW1985 wrote: »

The silly stuff about muscle memory and Fanning not being able to train it out of them. A managers job is to give clear direction to his players. If he cant do that what's the point in him?

Have you ever played hurling out of curiosity?

I'd doubt fanning can coach it out of them as well.

SW1985

Ropaire wrote: »

Have you ever played hurling out of curiosity?

Not sure of the relevance but yes. You gonna start asking how many games for the county next or something?

That isnt an argument.

Ropaire

SW1985 wrote: »

Not sure of the relevance but yes. You gonna start asking how many games for the county next or something?

That isnt an argument.

Would love to be on a team where I just got clear instructions from the manager and that's all we needed. Must be great! Could train on a bar stool

Jjjjjjjjbarry

Muscle memory my arse. If Derek’s influence can’t be trained out then why could Sean Power’s? Total rubbish and a complete contradiction.

Ropaire

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Muscle memory my arse. If Derek’s influence can’t be trained out then why could Sean Power’s? Total rubbish and a complete contradiction.

Maybe muscle memory isn't the term, but possession drills on what to do when you're under pressure which becomes second nature. Not sure Sean power had much influence, he just let lads off to play.

TheScoringGoal

Ropaire wrote: »

Maybe muscle memory isn't the term, but possession drills on what to do when you're under pressure which becomes second nature. Not sure Sean power had much influence, he just let lads off to play.

Your argument doesn't stand up. Under McGrath we routinely won scrappy contested ball on the ground. We lose all those now. If the conditioned behaviourism was still in players then we'd do the same but we don't.

Ropaire

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

Your argument doesn't stand up. Under McGrath we routinely won scrappy contested ball on the ground. We lose all those now. If the conditioned behaviourism was still in players then we'd do the same but we don't.

Yeah we won those and then we blasted it long to no one. Its easy to win rucks when you have half tour team running into them rugby style.

We're we better under McGrath, yes. Will we get to where we want o be under McGrath if he comes back, I'd seriously doubt it.

Motivator

Where to start about today? I took my father in law with me and he commented on the warm up that he would lambast the camogie team he coaches for some of the carry on in the warm up. Shambolic. Tactically an absolute shambles from the very first minute, players not communicating with each other, no cohesion, no aggression, no heart, no bottle. It was like a home game for Limerick, the Waterford crowd were embarrassing from start to finish and for the third week in a row it mirrored what we saw on the pitch.

Today was about restoring some pride and taking the battle to Limerick. There’s clearly something very much amiss in the camp whether that’s between the players themselves, players vs. management or a mix of both but something is definitely going on. Im totally fed up of this now. I’ve been going to Waterford games since 1990 and this up there with the worst of days for me. I genuinely don’t know why I bother dragging myself up and down the road from Cork for League and Championship games every year when this kind of crap is tolerated and accepted by the Co. Board.

Mastermcgrath

SW1985 wrote: »

Your implication is clear. And shameful.

Is there an ignore function on this thing?

Yes

SW1985

Ropaire wrote: »

Its easy to win rucks when you have half tour team running into them rugby style.

I miss those days

TheScoringGoal

Ropaire wrote: »

We're we better under McGrath, yes. Will we get to where we want o be under McGrath if he comes back, I'd seriously doubt it.

That's a totally different argument and it's your opinion so that's fair enough. But I don't buy into any residual effect from a previous management.

hawkwing

I'm not from Waterford but was at the '82 Munster Final and the Kerry game in Walsh Park in '93 (cost £2 as a student!). Today was probably the most heartless performance i ever saw though.Tools downed after 20 mins.