"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forw

sky88 · 21-05-2019 9:36am

i actually thought it was a good episode until after jon killed Dany then it became a **** show

von Smallhausen · 21-05-2019 9:36am

PhuckHugh wrote: »

Will we get an 8 season spin off of Arya, aka 'Dora the explora' , spinning off around the globe getting up to all kinds of skullduggery ?

Reminds me of this...

walshb · 21-05-2019 9:40am

I honestly think I could give as good an acting performance as any of these numpties in this show...

Snow, Sansa, Arya, Davos, Blondie particularly Sh1t...

Only Varys for me stood out as quality...

Washout · 21-05-2019 9:42am

RickBlaine wrote: »

A few thoughts:

- I liked that Tyrion had a major role to play. Probably the most meaningful stuff he has had since the end of season 4. As usual, Dinklage is fantastic. Tyrion ended up in the role that best suited his skill set - I like that.

- I don't understand how Jon could possibly be conflicted about Dany. He witnessed her massacre an entire city ffs.

- I thought Dany's death was too rushed and cliched. Surprise stab by her lover in an embrace. We've seen that before. I wish her downfall was a little more complex than a sudden stab.

- I don't really mind the scenes after Dany's death, although Greyworm suddenly becoming the de facto leader of King's Landing was very rushed and a bit jarring, even if he was made head of Dany's armies.

- I also don't really mind Bran becoming ruler. But I think it would have been a bit more palatable if some of the lords required more persuading. Also, it would have been better if Bran was still Bran and not ThreeEyedRavan.exe upgraded with a King mod.

- Maybe I'm a romantic, but I would have liked to have seen Gendry joining Arya on the deck of her ship.

- The episode had some great shots, notably Dany with Drogon's wings behind her, and a sleeping Drogon awakening underneath the ash.

- Overall, not the ideal finale to the whole show but probably the best way season 8 could have ended given the 5 episodes that proceeded it.

Summmarizes word for word exactly how I felt abut it.

fits · 21-05-2019 9:48am

We set up a projector and watched the final two episodes last night. The cinematography was unreal. Im happy enough with how it ended. The only thing that bugs me is Jaime's end really. Dany was always headed in this direction looking back.

TerrorFirmer · 21-05-2019 9:54am

Honestly I thought Jaime's run was the only thing Benioff and Weiss managed to stay nail while being dedicated to remaining character-true against expectations. It's probably the main reason I'm sort of hesitantly OK with the final two episodes.

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

At this point I'd almost hedge bets on Brienne survive, if only to keep the memory of the righteous Kingslayer alive against what the history books will record.

Wabbit Ears · 21-05-2019 9:56am

Lor11 wrote: »

Bran's "punishment" to Jon was a reward, there's no nights watch, Jon is free to live the life he always wanted. I thought when Jon didn't say goodbye to ghost was him not wanting to say goodbye to the North/Stark in himself so I was glad he got back there.

So many people going 'OMG Jon got so shafted getting sent to the nights watch!!!11one!eleven!'

FFS, they pulled a con job on the Unsullied to get them to fcuk off back home without causing a fuss and Jon got to be live free and happy with his doggo beyond the wall. Sure we know he's got a kink for wildling wimmin'

abcabc123123 · 21-05-2019 9:58am

This, apart from the painful council scene, and the characteristically season 8ish handling of the response to Jon's murder of Dany, was actually a much better episode than I was expecting. I found myself thinking a lot of the resolutions would have been great if they hadn't completely screwed up the delivery of the entire season before it.

Bran and Tyrion ruling strikes me as being very Martin, and seeing Dany as the villain would have been amazing if they had done the transformation properly. Assuming the outcomes are broadly in line with what GRRM laid out, I found myself thinking what brilliant vision for character arcs he has. It's just a shame the show butchered the execution so badly in the end.

Anyway, it's over now. Pity it went out the way it did.

Cantona's Collars · 21-05-2019 10:10am

ERG89 wrote: »

Tbf the actors of a few other prominent characters on the show can't act either & the ones that can have been killed off or in recent seasons tended to phone it in like they are doing Hamlet one time too many.

I just thought of another thing had it been Rhaegal & not Drogon who spared Jon for killing Danaerys it would have made a teeny bit more sense aa they had a prior relationship. But a dragon empathising with Jon to the point of destroying the iron throne that his mother figure desired to the point of committing mass genocide of an entire city - by dragon fire I might add makes about as much sense as the rest of the season.
I'm not going to think about this season anymore when I do I just think of things that made no sense. The first few episodes of this season were utterly meaningless & then everything got messy fast and rushed over at the end like doing a college assignment in the last 48 hours. They got an extra year to produce this season, you'd be forgiven for thinking it was half the time & not twice the time

The Drogon melting the throne bit was explained in a previous season.
In the second episode of Season 6, Tyrion said that: "Dragons are intelligent, more intelligent than men according to some Maesters. They have affection for their friends and fury for their enemies."
The throne and Dany's obsession with it ultimately led to her death,kinda fitting that Drogon melted it.

Sardonicat · 21-05-2019 10:20am

Of course Drogon didn't burn Jon, he's his first cousin!

turbbo · 21-05-2019 10:28am

Sardonicat wrote: »

Of course Drogon didn't burn Jon, he's his first cousin!

Just like Jon wouldn't kill his Aunt.

Scott Tenorman · 21-05-2019 10:31am

“What unites people? Gold? No. Armies? No! It’s stories.....”

Oh just f**k off with this sh*t writing!!!!

turbbo · 21-05-2019 10:33am

Scott Tenorman wrote: »

“What unites people? Gold? No. Armies? No! It’s stories.....”

Oh just f**k off with this sh*t writing!!!!

"love is duty" - "duty is love" :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

valoren · 21-05-2019 10:38am

HBO, who stumped up the money, dropped the ball on this.
GOT was their crown jewel. Creative differences should have come into force.
D&D turning in those scripts for a six part final season ought to have been ringing alarm bells.
The final season should have been 10 episodes which HBO wanted and should have demanded.
If D&D refused then their contracts should have been paid off with competent writing staff employed to give it the respect it had earned. GOT is of a literary source and thus the writing is paramount but it wasn't up to standard.

You have to feel for the production staff who worked their asses off to produce excellent work for Season 8.
I was just reminded of Revenge of the Sith and Anakin Skywalker going from a frustrated Jedi who is not trusted, gets manipulated with the idea he can save his wife from dying in childbirth, that he can only save her by being a Sith and in the space of a few weeks he is readily committing massacres and murdering young Jedi's. All of it playing out with top notch production and by an actor who can only do the best with what they've been given. That was the product of poor writing from a creative in Lucas who was actually a poor screenwriter (Episodes 1 and 2 being proof positive of that) and who should have had the common sense to leave his ego at the door and employ proper screenwriters to give audiences and their intelligence some respect.

meeeeh · 21-05-2019 10:40am

I actually think Dany's transformation was perfectly fine. In previous seasons Jorah held her back, Ser Barristan persuaded her to offer fair trial to Sons of the Harpy, Tyrion persuaded her not to burn Meereen and and every so often she did kill people not because of what they did but because of who they were. In 7th season Tyrion didn't manage to stop her and when she lost loved ones and started to distrust everyone around there wasn't much to hold her back.

Thinking back I think most of viewers (me included) were uncomfortable with either some of her actions or some of her intentions but we forgot about them because her cause was 'just' and because she was reined back when she wanted to follow her worst impulses. In season 8 there just wasn't anyone left to stop her. I think the writting in the second part of last episode was a bit silly and corny but I thought 5th episode made perfect sense. And I think Dany's meltdown was surprising only because in our mind good guys kill bad guys as she did before, nobody paused to think there could be good among those she crucified for example. She didn't really distinguish.

I have absolutely no objection to where the story ended but the writing around Bran's coronation and how they got there really wasn't great. Plus Arya sailing into the sunset was a little bit daft. She didn't show any interest to explore before.

TerrorFirmer · 21-05-2019 10:41am

valoren wrote: »

That was the product of poor writing from a creative in Lucas who was actually a poor screenwriter (Episdoes 1 and 2 being proof positive of that) and who should have had the common sense to employ proper screenwriters to show audiences and their intelligence some respect.

Entirely agree, this desperately needed a writing staff and more team-led creative-input to bring the perfectly sound creative vision to credible life.

I was actually drawing comparisons between Lucas and his insistence on ultimate autonomy over the prequels, and Benioff and Weiss, in another thread just yesterday.

The results are almost identical.

turbbo · 21-05-2019 10:45am

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Entirely agree, this desperately needed a writing staff and more team-led creative-input to bring the perfectly sound creative vision to credible life.

I was actually drawing comparisons between Lucas and his insistence on ultimate autonomy over the prequels, and Benioff and Weiss, in another thread just yesterday.

The results are almost identical.

yeah motivated by $$$$$$$$$ - sad but true - prequels weren't the only crap thing about star wars though - return of the jedi - complete tosh.

21-05-2019 10:46am

It should be the end of the careers of the two writers..they should never work again..

Sardonicat · 21-05-2019 10:47am

turbbo wrote: »

Sardonicat wrote: »

Of course Drogon didn't burn Jon, he's his first cousin!

Just like Jon wouldn't kill his Aunt.

I'm more impressed with Drogon's fine motor skills picking up Dany like that. I'm surprised he didn't eat his food with a knife and fork (once he'd toasted it to perfection, of course )

Plopsu · 21-05-2019 10:48am

So the big takeaway from this is, if you're electing a ruler for life, might want to check what their lifespan is. :pac:

meeeeh · 21-05-2019 10:49am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It should be the end of the careers of the two writers..they should never work again..

This is just daft. It's just entertainment, I'm starting to think too many people have unhealthy obsession with the show.

21-05-2019 10:57am

meeeeh wrote: »

This is just daft. It's just entertainment, I'm starting to think too many people have unhealthy obsession with the show.

Lots of people did..
That's the sad reality..It was a piece of art that had entered the public consciousness..It had become culturally relevant.. Northern Ireland's bloody tourist industry is based on it at this stage for God's sake..
For them to take it and just drive it into the ground was criminal..

(Not me personally, btw..it was good for a while..got sh1te season 6ish..I just like to whinge about it on the internet..)

turbbo · 21-05-2019 10:58am

Deleted User wrote: »

Lots of people did..
That's the sad reality..It was a piece of art that had entered the public consciousness..It had become culturally relevant.. Northern Ireland's bloody tourist industry is based on it at this stage for God's sake..
For them to take it and just drive it into the ground was criminal..

:eek:

21-05-2019 11:00am

turbbo wrote: »

:eek:

Exactly..

bigslice · 21-05-2019 11:04am

meeeeh wrote: »

This is just daft. It's just entertainment, I'm starting to think too many people have unhealthy obsession with the show.

This. Some utter utter drivel been written about the last season and genuinely think that no matter the ending it would have been the same. Some people just wanted to have a moan and value their own opinion too much.

Mightn’t have been perfect in places, rushed elsewhere but some would have it up there with Fair City!

SusieBlue · 21-05-2019 11:09am

NuMarvel wrote: »

Greyworm: I'm gonna kill all my queen's enemies!

Also Greyworm: Except the murderer of my queen, of course.

This just sums it up for me. Plot holes everywhere.
Greyworm had just slaughtered a bunch of defenseless soldiers who had surrendered, in the name of Dany, and now we're expected to believe that he'd spare Jon & Tyrion for betraying/murdering his Queen?
Or that he'd have any respect for the authority of the new King? Greyworm is a blood lusting war solider, why would he give a monkeys what a new King commanded? He was only loyal to Dany.
Not true to his character AT ALL.

The dragon melting the throne was beyond cringe. I would have expected it to either Dracarys Jon, for killing his mother, or becoming loyal to Jon, because he's a Targaryan.
But no, we're expected to believe the dragon has the faculty to forgive Jon because he's a Targaryan, and off he sails into the sunset.

Bran being chosen as King because he has a great story was ridiculous.
I can think of about 10 characters off the top of my head who had better, more interesting, stories than Bran.
Hell I'd have even preferred to see Gendry get it, because having the series start & end with a Baratheon on the throne would have been poetic.
Love how the whole thing was decided & neatly tied up in about 45 seconds as well, by none other than Tyrion (prisoner of war).

8 seasons and it was all squared off with zero objection (apart from Sansa) in a jiffy. Unbelievable.

The only positives were Tyrion finding Cersei & Jaime, there was genuine emotion there & it was really well done, and Jon killing Dany after she gets to touch (but not sit) on the throne, thus ending her dream.

I've followed all episode threads since the start of season 8 and this is my first time posting, mainly because I had such mixed views on previous episodes.
I thanked posts both supporting & criticising, because I could see good and bad in all of them.
But this really fell flat for me.

Fwiw, my ideal ending would have been Sansa as Queen, & Jon as King of the North. Bran could have fecked off back to the forest for all I cared.

Effects · 21-05-2019 11:10am

walshb wrote: »

I honestly think I could give as good an acting performance as any of these numpties in this show...

Sure you could.

Mickeroo · 21-05-2019 11:10am

turbbo wrote: »

"love is duty" - "duty is love" :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

It was actually "Love is the death of duty" and "Duty is the death of love" wasn't it?

Penn · 21-05-2019 11:13am

meeeeh wrote: »

I actually think Dany's transformation was perfectly fine. In previous seasons Jorah held her back, Ser Barristan persuaded her to offer fair trial to Sons of the Harpy, Tyrion persuaded her not to burn Meereen and and every so often she did kill people not because of what they did but because of who they were. In 7th season Tyrion didn't manage to stop her and when she lost loved ones and started to distrust everyone around there wasn't much to hold her back.

Thinking back I think most of viewers (me included) were uncomfortable with either some of her actions or some of her intentions but we forgot about them because her cause was 'just' and because she was reined back when she wanted to follow her worst impulses. In season 8 there just wasn't anyone left to stop her. I think the writting in the second part of last episode was a bit silly and corny but I thought 5th episode made perfect sense. And I think Dany's meltdown was surprising only because in our mind good guys kill bad guys as she did before, nobody paused to think there could be good among those she crucified for example. She didn't really distinguish.

Agreed, and I think Tyrion's speech to Jon summed it all up perfectly and demonstrated the clear cause and effect of it all through her whole journey. Her advisors always helped control her worst impulses, but those impulses were always there. Then her victories were always cheered because she defeated bad people, but it all created a God complex for her and she believed herself to be the absolute judge of right and wrong. Without anyone she trusted to ask her to reconsider and with absolute belief this was her destiny, she came to believe anything she chose to do was right, because she decides what it right.

I thought Jon's conversations with Tyrion and Dany herself gave as good an explanation and examination of who Dany had become as was possible. Possibly a bit late at that stage and would have preferred to see Jon come to some of those conclusions a bit earlier though, rather than just parroting "She is our Queen" to everyone.

21-05-2019 11:16am

I'm confused to why people think Bran planned all this. I thought he could see everything in the past, not the future? He couldn't have known for sure that Dany would destory King's Landing.

Tazzimus · 21-05-2019 11:20am

walshb wrote: »

I honestly think I could give as good an acting performance as any of these numpties in this show...

Snow, Sansa, Arya, Davos, Blondie particularly Sh1t...

Only Varys for me stood out as quality...

Don't be silly.

21-05-2019 11:23am

bigslice wrote: »

This. Some utter utter drivel been written about the last season and genuinely think that no matter the ending it would have been the same. Some people just wanted to have a moan and value their own opinion too much.

Mightn’t have been perfect in places, rushed elsewhere but some would have it up there with Fair City!

This season's dialogue was on a par with Fair City for the majority of it.

turbbo · 21-05-2019 11:25am

Mickeroo wrote: »

It was actually "Love is the death of duty" and "Duty is the death of love" wasn't it?

Still Pish!

21-05-2019 11:26am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This season's dialogue was on a par with Fair City for the majority of it.

Dude.. have you watched fair city lately?
It's way more sophisticated than this last season of GOT..

Mickeroo · 21-05-2019 11:26am

turbbo wrote: »

Still Pish!

Accurate pish now at least.

meeeeh · 21-05-2019 11:27am

turbbo wrote: »

Still Pish!

I thought it was Tyrion telling him it's his duty to kill Dany. That's how I understood the quote and though it was fairly obvious.

ThunbergsAreGo · 21-05-2019 11:28am

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm confused to why people think Bran planned all this. I thought he could see everything in the past, not the future? He couldn't have known for sure that Dany would destory King's Landing.

Why do you think I came?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 21-05-2019 11:30am

Wow, so much butthurt in this thread. Like somebody took their last rolo or their rice crispies were soggier than usual this morning. It's like an echo chamber. Is it hip to hate the show now?

There's a lot of people who are not capable of formulating their own opinions and go with whatever reddit says. At least provide an alternative instead of just whinging and crying about it. It's perfectly fine to dislike something, but this thread is a train wreck of copied opinions. Dexter is comparable to GOT? Not even close, they are not even remotely similar.

People are not able to see past the opinions which they are told to have on reddit, facebook, twitter etc.

21-05-2019 11:30am

naughtb4 wrote: »

Why do you think I came?

Peatys · 21-05-2019 11:31am

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Honestly I thought Jaime's run was the only thing Benioff and Weiss managed to stay nail while being dedicated to remaining character-true against expectations. It's probably the main reason I'm sort of hesitantly OK with the final two episodes.

Watch you don't dislocate your shoulder

21-05-2019 11:42am

Annabella Obnoxious Bayou wrote: »

Wow, so much butthurt in this thread. Like somebody took their last rolo or their rice crispies were soggier than usual this morning. It's like an echo chamber. Is it hip to hate the show now?

There's a lot of people who are not capable of formulating their own opinions and go with whatever reddit says. At least provide an alternative instead of just whinging and crying about it. It's perfectly fine to dislike something, but this thread is a train wreck of copied opinions. Dexter is comparable to GOT? Not even close, they are not even remotely similar.

People are not able to see past the opinions which they are told to have on reddit, facebook, twitter etc.

Why was I sighing throughout that episode, tapping my feet with impatience, rolling my eyes at clunky attempts at comedy, in utter disbelief at how some of these characters interacted, wanting it to be over. I didn't read to do that on reddit. IIf this was season one, I would have given up on it.

Penn · 21-05-2019 11:51am

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm confused to why people think Bran planned all this. I thought he could see everything in the past, not the future? He couldn't have known for sure that Dany would destory King's Landing.

He could definitely see the future too. We saw that when he was first becoming the 3ER and he saw a glimpse of a dragon's shadow flying across King's Landing (which turned out to be Drogon during the attack). As well as that, he knew to give Arya the dagger which she then killed the Night King with and knew Jamie was going to turn up at Winterfell (and was waiting for him).

The extent to which he can see things is up for debate, but it definitely seems like he knew the attack on King's Landing was going to happen. I guess because it was meant to happen, he therefore didn't try to stop it.

21-05-2019 11:51am

Its not my show to write but I don't like what they did write.

I honestly think the story could have been better if they had used the White Walkers as the big enemy. Dany and Jon are properly in love and get married with Dany somehow getting pregnant and nobody knowing. Maybe the humans are getting defeated in Winterfell and are forced to retreat south. Cersei gets sucked into the war. Dany can still go mad queen during the war without having to burn thousands of innocents. Varys realizes that she is losing the plot and discovers Jon's a Targaryen and conspires with Arya or someone to assassinate her. Jon eventually finds out and has Varys executed. Cersei can still die in similar circumstances when the Red Keep is destroyed. The big fighting characters could all be fighting against a White Walker, some of them losing, some on the verge of defeat. Arya can still get her moment to kill the Night King. After the war is done, there are no queens left and they need to democratically choose a king or queen. They pick Bran. (They cut out all the lines were he mentions that he can never be lord of anything) Jon goes north as a broken man after losing his pregnant wife.

I think they could have fit the story into something like that and it would have been better received.

IrishAlice · 21-05-2019 11:52am

meeeeh wrote: »

Ewww. They were brought up as siblings...

Anyway Jon never wanted to rule and he doesn't have to now. The ending some want to see for him would be something he'd hate.

Am I the only one who finds it amusing that something like one couple survived in the whole series (Sam and Gilly). I guess dating is hard.

I know but it would be something they'd do in GoT :pac:

I never thought of that, dating is definitely tough there!

Unearthly · 21-05-2019 11:53am

valoren wrote: »

HBO, who stumped up the money, dropped the ball on this.
GOT was their crown jewel. Creative differences should have come into force.
D&D turning in those scripts for a six part final season ought to have been ringing alarm bells.
The final season should have been 10 episodes which HBO wanted and should have demanded.
If D&D refused then their contracts should have been paid off with competent writing staff employed to give it the respect it had earned. GOT is of a literary source and thus the writing is paramount but it wasn't up to standard.

That would have been a suicide risk. Could you imagine if the new writers made an absolute balls of the show and the fans knew they binned off the people who gave them their first 7 seasons. HBO studios would have been burned to the ground Kings landing style

The narrative would be for greed reasons, HBO wanted more episodes rather than allowing the original writers tell their intended story

meeeeh · 21-05-2019 12:04pm

IrishAlice wrote: »

I never thought of that, dating is definitely tough there!

I actually thought someone must have been dumped a lot while writing the show.:D It's not that I particularly wanted romance but sheer probability would imply there would be more considering time and character span.

Thelonious Monk · 21-05-2019 12:23pm

The only episode I can remember watching that I couldn't wait for it to end.
Anyway, overall it was awesome, we shall never see the likes again!

hatrickpatrick · 21-05-2019 12:25pm

Worst finale ever. It was good right up until Dany got stabbed (which she totally deserved after last week's antics IMO), but how the aftermath was handled made an absolute mockery of everything GoT has been about up until now.

NuMarvel · 21-05-2019 12:31pm

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

The Drogon melting the throne bit was explained in a previous season.
In the second episode of Season 6, Tyrion said that: "Dragons are intelligent, more intelligent than men according to some Maesters. They have affection for their friends and fury for their enemies."
The throne and Dany's obsession with it ultimately led to her death,kinda fitting that Drogon melted it.

The melting of the throne might have worked if they showed that dragons had this level of intelligence, instead of hoping people would remember a few lines from an episode that aired about three years ago.

And if Drogon was so intelligent as to decipher that the Throne was the source of all problems, even when enraged by the assassination of his mother figure, why didn't he realise that torching the city and its inhabitants was going to put Dany in jeopardy in the first place?

For me, while melting the throne looked cool, it made no sense. And ultimately it made no major impact on the story. It could just as easily have been Bran who decided to have it destroyed after he became king.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 21-05-2019 12:35pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Why was I sighing throughout that episode, tapping my feet with impatience, rolling my eyes at clunky attempts at comedy, in utter disbelief at how some of these characters interacted, wanting it to be over. I didn't read to do that on reddit. IIf this was season one, I would have given up on it.

I guess you were worried about your reaction being hip enough? You, like so many others, had already written the last episode off before it even aired. Looking for plot holes and inconsistencies to be angry about. I couldn't imagine wasting my time on anything with that kind of attitude. Why bother?

People saying they can't make sense of X Y or Z, lack imagination... severely.

"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forw

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