"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 5 "The bells" - Spoilers post 2 forward

0byme75341jo28 · 13-05-2019 10:15AM

With so much work to do in six episodes I think they've done an alright job, but clearly this season should have been a ten episoder.

To the people saying this isn't how GRRM will finish the series - I have to disagree. Mad Queen Daenerys has certainly been hinted at.

leggo · 13-05-2019 10:25AM

Yeah, I think everything in last night's episode is a direct part of the endgame (except for maybe Cleganebowl and Euron/Jaime). How they moved the pieces into place, doubtful, that's the difference between writing for TV and in books. I'd have loved if this was a 10-episode season, even if there were two 10-episode seasons with one for the battle against the NK and one for this. But they probably looked at it from the angle of how long it would take to produce (if it's one 10-episode series, for example, we may have been waiting 3 years and flipped a lid about that), from a writing standpoint they have to build a TV series around a big satisfying climax that'll keep people happy until however long it takes to come back and they likely didn't have that (whereas the books tend to just end and have an epilogue chapter tacked on). The lack of published source material likely played into it too. They'd have to really start writing their own story and deviating from GRRM's endgame if they had to create those moments.

The White Wolf · 13-05-2019 10:42AM

awec wrote: »

Production wise that was absolutely excellent. Movie-esque. The acting was excellent.

The plot though? Meh. I think I'm past caring. They are clearly focusing on production at the expense of story. Viewed in isolation, it is great, when you view it through the lens of the whole show it sort of falls apart. The character of Jamie Lannister has been butchered.

Yeah I can't fault the episode from a technical standpoint where once again the score was excellent, but I've checked out on the plot.

There were little moments that did entertain me such as The Mountain not being all that mindless after all. I was surprised that Sandor seemingly triggered him.

Nody · 13-05-2019 10:42AM

What annoyed me the most were the inconsistencies. Dragon fire now blows up stone, but only sometimes. Dragon fire don't remain as it's a flame only, except sometimes it's napalm that lies around for hours. Same thing with the scorpions on the wall facing John; every single one of them shown pointing out towards John and not moving yet they all heard the noise and booms behind them. It would not taken much simply to turn them a bit to show how they are trying to get the Dragon but oh no, they are all simply standing there to be roasted deaf and blind. Several deaths which I can appreciate but it all appears to only be an excuse to give a certain super assassin (who suddenly completely forgot how to mask herself and decided to ignore her mission) the 20 min required to get motivated to kill someone she don't like anyway for next episode. It's a better episode than the previous two but it fell down in so many areas for no reason that would take minimal time and cost to change.

memorystick · 13-05-2019 10:55AM

Dany was like Joe Stalin on a dragon.

13-05-2019 10:57AM

Anyone have any issues with Tyrion going from a pretty astute political operator to one of the biggest dopes in Westeros?

pinkypinky · 13-05-2019 11:21AM

Well, I thought it was a farce from start to finish. I'm so disappointed. It truly is this decade's Lost now.

What a shame.

My only question is who did Varys send letters too? And will they use time-travel to arrive by next week's finale?

s7ryf3925pivug · 13-05-2019 11:24AM

Yeah dany killing everyone was her trajectory since season 1, they were just clever about it. She was a dragon in wolf’s clothing.

Would be interesting to rewatch all seasons in the context of knowing how she turns out to be.

Kunkka · 13-05-2019 11:32AM

Anders Wet Grid wrote: »

Yeah dany killing everyone was her trajectory since season 1, they were just clever about it. She was a dragon in wolf’s clothing.

Would be interesting to rewatch all seasons in the context of knowing how she turns out to be.

I agree.

The only part of the episode and story they have done well. Maybe because it’s so much a part of the main ending, they just said “**** it” about all the other characters not involved in her demise.

Mr.Prodston · 13-05-2019 11:38AM

Cersei went out with a bit of a whimper in the end!

That's kind of a twist in itself?

I've been banging the Dany turning Mad Queen drum for a while. Well holly hell did she deliver that in spades!!

There are so many inconsistencies that I mostly made peace with while watching, perhaps they'll resurface later in the week, but for the most part I enjoyed it.

Thought we'd get a glance at Dany in the end but I guess the sheer calm after all the carnage said it all!

Actually, the whole Euron/Jamie scene annoyed me no end but yeah. And f*cking Greyworm too!

Jon vs Dany showdown next week I presume?

Paddy Cow · 13-05-2019 11:39AM

Riddle101 wrote: »

I'm still trying to wrap my head around what I saw so i'll probably have a better comment later, but I found that episode to be very bizarre for some reason. I didn't hate but it just didn't feel right in some parts.

If I hadn't seen Rhaegal get killed by the scorpions and Dany evade ten shots, only to give up and retreat, I'd have loved it. I just couldn't believe it though that suddenly Euron the dragon slayer is an incompetent moron who only managed to get off one or two shots, despite having a much bigger fleet with him this time. Drogon BBQ'ing them was great but it's what should've happened last week. It's the inconsistencies from last week to this week that killed any excitement/satisfaction for me.

13-05-2019 11:40AM

I've no real problem with Dany going to the dark side, as it were, but it just all seems so rushed and it's like the show runners are flying by the seat of their pants with their choices, when that shouldn't be the case, having had years to come up with a conclusion to the show.

Pacing is a huge issue in this series in my opinion. There's no room for the characters or the plot to breathe. I don't know why the show runners didn't avail of the opportunity to have a longer series. The last series suffered from this too but not to the same extent.

It's like a student doing an exam who is running out of time on his final question and tries to cram in as much as they can in as few lines as possible, ending up with a few bullet points!

Daith · 13-05-2019 11:40AM

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

Cersei went out with a bit of a whimper in the end!

That's kind of a twist in itself?

Maybe but the thing is...she always had help? She would have been gone without Qyburn.

Paddy Cow · 13-05-2019 11:41AM

Ward J. Littell wrote: »

Anyone have any issues with Tyrion going from a pretty astute political operator to one of the biggest dopes in Westeros?

They've completely ruined his character. Tyrion was always able to see people for who they are. He knew what Joffrey was and didn't ignore it just because he's family. He can see what Dany is yet ignored all his instincts because she is his Queen :rolleyes: Vary's deserved a better death. I just hope he actually sent some of those letters out and didn't burn them all.

13-05-2019 11:52AM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

They've completely ruined his character. Tyrion was always able to see people for who they are. He knew what Joffrey was and didn't ignore it just because he's family. He can see what Dany is yet ignored all his instincts because she is his Queen :rolleyes: Vary's deserved a better death. I just hope he actually sent some of those letters out and didn't burn them all.

Yeah, they've made a complete mug out of Tyrion to be honest.

Wailin · 13-05-2019 12:03PM

Yep, it's the hip thing now to hate this show isn't lads....ffs. Pack of sheep it seems.

Great episode of television in my opinion and after the disappointment of the NK episode, a welcome one.

13-05-2019 12:23PM

Wailin wrote: »

Yep, it's the hip thing now to hate this show isn't lads....ffs. Pack of sheep it seems.

Great episode of television in my opinion and after the disappointment of the NK episode, a welcome one.

I'm still enjoying the show and I actually think this episode, taken on it's own, was very good. Better than last week's episode for sure. I just think they could have handled the build up to the finale a lot better if they had given themselves more episodes to play things out.

Necro · 13-05-2019 12:43PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

They've completely ruined his character. Tyrion was always able to see people for who they are. He knew what Joffrey was and didn't ignore it just because he's family. He can see what Dany is yet ignored all his instincts because she is his Queen :rolleyes: Vary's deserved a better death. I just hope he actually sent some of those letters out and didn't burn them all.

Did he though? I know he served the realm but Varys was all about deception and underhanded tactics. The ends justified the means as long as it served the realm in his view.

So death by Drogon was quite fitting after being rumbled for trying to serve the realm underhandedly (and as it turns out correctly) yet again.

Regarding Tyrion, it's definitely true his character suffered after they ran out of source material.

I've said it before and I stand by it - that's on GRRM, not the show writers.

awec · 13-05-2019 12:51PM

Why did Tyrion tell Dany about Varys?

Paddy Cow · 13-05-2019 12:55PM

Necro wrote: »

Did he though? I know he served the realm but Varys was all about deception and underhanded tactics. The ends justified the means as long as it served the realm in his view.

So death by Drogon was quite fitting after being rumbled for trying to serve the realm underhandedly (and as it turns out correctly) yet again.

Regarding Tyrion, it's definitely true his character suffered after they ran out of source material.

I've said it before and I stand by it - that's on GRRM, not the show writers.

I actually loved Drogon killing him, that was spot on. What I meant was Tyrion turning into a tattle tale and running to Dany about Varys seemed a bit weak. I missed the inference that Varys was trying to use the little girl to poison Dany's food. It would've been better if Varys had been caught doing that and would also push Dany further over the edge.

Paddy Cow · 13-05-2019 12:58PM

awec wrote: »

Why did Tyrion tell Dany about Varys?

That's what I don't get and what exactly did he tell her? "Hey Dany, everyone knows your secret and Varys doesn't like you anymore". In his heart Tyrion knew exactly what Dany was and his betrayal of Varys was out of character. This is a guy who was a brilliant hand and well able to play the game. Now he's a whimpering sidekick to a queen that's lost it.

KikiLaRue · 13-05-2019 01:00PM

Ward J. Littell wrote: »

Yeah, they've made a complete mug out of Tyrion to be honest.

See drunk whore-riding Tyrion was like Baelish; callous, self-serving- able to get the measure of people and exploit it for his own means.

As he said to Jaime a couple of weeks back, it’s the “perils of self-betterment”. He tries to become a better person and in the process of developing morals and betting on hope, he loses some of his insight.

I think the lesson is sometimes even really clever people get things wildly wrong.

awec · 13-05-2019 01:09PM

Do we think much time passed between Varys writing the letters, getting executed and the battle starting?

I am wondering who those letters were to, and what's going to be the result of them. Would there be time for anyone else to march to Kings Landing?

Daith · 13-05-2019 01:29PM

awec wrote: »

Do we think much time passed between Varys writing the letters, getting executed and the battle starting?

I am wondering who those letters were to, and what's going to be the result of them. Would there be time for anyone else to march to Kings Landing?

Does it matter that much? Sansa knows and she'd be in fairly high standing with other Lords I think. They did mention the new Dorne Prince though.

Tyrion did tell/beg Varys not to do what he was planning to do so I could see why he'd say it to Dany.

13-05-2019 01:48PM

Jon Snow is also ridiculously OP now. One stroke of his sword kills fully armoured soldiers

EagererBeaver · 13-05-2019 01:52PM

Daith wrote: »

Does it matter that much? Sansa knows and she'd be in fairly high standing with other Lords I think. They did mention the new Dorne Prince though.

Tyrion did tell/beg Varys not to do what he was planning to do so I could see why he'd say it to Dany.

It does. Sansa would be in high standing with the northern lords, the lords of the Vale and perhaps also the Riverlands.

The lords of the North swore to Jon as King in the North as they accepted him, bastard or not, as a Stark. They'd not necessarily be overjoyed to have a Targaryen instead.

GHOST MGG · 13-05-2019 01:56PM

Am i the only one that saw arya stark survive dragonfire making her a targaryen??

Daith · 13-05-2019 01:57PM

EagererBeaver wrote: »

It does. Sansa would be in high standing with the northern lords, the lords of the Vale and perhaps also the Riverlands.

The lords of the North swore to Jon as King in the North as they accepted him, bastard or not, as a Stark. They'd not necessarily be overjoyed to have a Targaryen instead.

Sorry, I thought it was about who Varys was writing letters to. The other Lords mightn't have the same connection to Sansa but I doubt they'd dismiss her out of hand if she wrote letters to them.

GHOST MGG wrote: »

Am i the only one that saw arya stark survive dragonfire making her a targaryen??

Or the Lord of Light still has some use for her?

EagererBeaver · 13-05-2019 02:02PM

GHOST MGG wrote: »

Am i the only one that saw arya stark survive dragonfire making her a targaryen??

It's her plot armour, not her being a Targaryen (which she's clearly not).

She's basically invincible these days.

rawn · 13-05-2019 02:40PM

Liam O wrote: »

Jon Snow is also ridiculously OP now. One stroke of his sword kills fully armoured soldiers

Pretty sure Valerion steel cuts through armour quite easily compared to regular swords.

"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 5 "The bells" - Spoilers post 2 forward

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