"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 5 "The bells" - Spoilers post 2 forward

lertsnim

ixoy wrote: »

In keeping though with the "anyone can die" theme of the books, should character deaths actually be dramatically satisfying? Should they end with some sort of point?

I just thought that a grizzly ending would be more satisfying for me to watch as she was such a horrid **** all along. I can only speak for my preference of course.

awec

North of 32 wrote: »

Hopefully that's the last we see of Arya. She has suffered enough. Ever since the red wedding all I've wanted for her is revenge but as the Hound said, that road only leads to one place.

I am going to imagine that she rides off and finds peace.

Arya is going to have a serious case of concussion after that episode.

Alpha_zero

She was right to burn them all, was so happy when she unleashed the fires.

The Dragon was invincible this episode, but had previously looked weak and vulnerable in other episodes.

Alpha_zero

She did a great service getting rid of all those plebs.

TheValeyard

Alpha_zero wrote: »

She did a great service getting rid of all those plebs.

No unemployment problem, if you burn away the unemployed.

pm1977x

There were approx 16 scorpions last week that fired 10 plus shots in under a minute, this week maybe 50 plus scorpions and we saw 2 or 3 fired in total, from a fleet and army that was armed, ready and waiting for a dragon attack!


Best ep of the series so far but the inconsistencies are so easily avoided with just an ounce more effort in the writing. See also Jamie's 'never cared about the people' line, Arya trekking all the way to King's Landing before chickening out, etc...


As for 'I'm the man that killed Jamie Lannister' it may be the worst line of the series.

PopePalpatine

Jaysus, I was expecting Arya to come face-to-face with The Mountain when she last emerged from the rubble. :pac:

ixoy

pm1977x wrote: »

There were approx 16 scorpions last week that fired 10 plus shots in under a minute, this week maybe 50 plus scorpions and we saw 2 or 3 fired in total, from a fleet and army that was armed, ready and waiting for a dragon attack!

I much preferred the depiction of the scorpions this week - seemed more realistic than the 2000km/hr version last week. Shame about the inconsistency there.

Kunkka

Second watch completed and one thought occurred to me.. All those people who named their daughter or pets Khalessi are going to be pissed...

Falthyron

Style over substance.

The showrunners have been in such a hurry to end the show since the Season 6 finale. Proof of this lies with a lack of measured confidence in how they tell the story: there are no plotlines that appear insignificant or a long meandering twist - every scene now has a purpose to get that character to their conclusion. Varys speaking with Jon was to confirm Varys' treason. Tyrion telling Dany about Varys (first of all, why?! Second of all, Varys would never have exposed himself that foolishly to Tyrion - the Master of Whispers is far more scrupulous than that!) was to confirm Varys' death and show that Dany is about to break, mentally. Vary's execution was to plant the seed of doubt in Jon. Jon and Dany together was to pour water on that seed and confirm that she is on a unpredictable path that can only lead to anarchy. Tyrion pleading with Dany to show mercy in King's Landing was to plant the seed in Tyrion's mind and setup his decision to save Jamie... I mean come on! There is no nuance, no substance, no weaving narrative that leads to clever outcomes reflecting those characters' intelligence and experience over eight seasons. Now it's about getting from A to B as quickly as possible.

I said this season would end as a damp squib and so far I see no evidence to suggest otherwise. I honestly feel my reaction to whatever they throw at us next week will be: 'Oh right' or 'Meh, okay. I wonder when Watchmen starts'.

Oh, and don't get me started on the suddenly myopic, innumerable ballistas, the Golden Company sitting in a perfect line IN FRONT of King's Landing, IN FRONT of the supposedly impenetrable walls, IN FRONT of the door that can be blown open by Dragon Fire, begging to be hit by one strafing run from a dragon they knew to expect...! However, I will say one thing though: the whole rape and pillage thing was on point in terms of medieval warfare. If a castle is under siege the defender has one encirclement (iirc) to open the gates and allow the attacker inside in return for no harming of the occupants. However, refuse to open the gates, thereby forcing the attacked to assault the walls and its fair game as to what happens to the women, children and innocents inside.

In short, they should just release the final episode so we can get it over with. :pac:

Twenty Grand

Shame Dany didn't burn the Iron Fleet last week with her Kamikaze dive.

They did sweet FA this week and it would have made much more sense.

awec

awec wrote: »

The “I never cared about the people” line for Jamie was particularly lazy given he literally killed a King to save the people in the past.

I went to type a reply, but realised I was just repeating what I said in the non-readers thread about Jaime...

That's a criticism which isn't exactly down to bad writing in Jaime's case, it's a personal thing for each viewer. Who said we were entitled to a redemption resolution for Jaime?* The show has definitely given Jaime the chance at redemption over the years, but also has shown him pulled in both directions between 'redemption' and Cersei.

I liked how Jaime's story ended and found it true to the complex character he's been through-out the show. It may have ruined hopes for a happy ending with he and Brienne up North, but given what we've seen from the first episode, I have no problem with Jaime going back to Cersei when he realised she was definitely going to be wiped out of existence.

Some are pointing out that Jaime originally became Kingslayer to save the people of KL, so therefore Jaime would never say that he doesn't care about the innocent people of Westeros, or say that Cersei was all that mattered. That thought immediately reminds me of this scene between Jaime and Edmure from season 6...

That scene was surprising at the time because many believed Jaime was destined for redemption where he might even out-honour Ned Stark and Jon Snow. However..."I will take your baby and catapult it over the wall...just to get back to Cersei" isn't exactly the stuff of redemption. Although there were examples in each season that Jaime was still wrapped around Cersei's finger, that scene with Edmure was a stark reminder late-on of exactly where Jaime and his loyalties were truly anchored to.

If Jaime's end doesn't sit well with some viewers, that is the way it is, it's a real-time reaction which can't be changed. I understand this...Arya shanking the NK and WW threat wasn't my own cup of tea. So I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, just explain why this particular resolution sits well with me.

Jaime was an addict, and although he showed promising signs of lasting sobriety at times, his addiction caught him in the end. When an addict dies, there can often be someone left to mourn them, someone who saw the best in them and gave everything to try and save them...but in the end it was futile as their addiction pulled them towards an untimely end. I guess that's Brienne now.

*Jaime might have failed to redeem himself in the eyes of the masses and the likes of Brienne, but he had redemption with Cersei. He died a hero in her eyes and loving arms, and that seems to be all that really mattered to him.

It will be interesting to see where GRRM takes Jamie in the books. Sure, most of us have abandoned the hopes of the book series ever being concluded, but the sweet summer child that I am believes we will get Winds of Winter sooner or later.

Icyseanfitz

just watched, what a load of bollox! does good writing, character and plot consistency mean nothing anymore

J. Marston

letowski wrote: »

Agreed this is probably GRRM's ending too, or similar.

One thing for sure, this definitely has been the showrunners ending since season two at least. They even showed us.

https://twitter.com/labellepainter/status/1127763393782349824

Apparently that's been debunked. The official script said she was walking through snow and in the close up shots there are icicles on the braziers.

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

No unemployment problem, if you burn away the unemployed.

Worryingly, that is probably a valid solution for about 85% of After Hours.

Tazzimus

Well,
Dany/the writers finally realised that dragons are highly maneuverable, only took Rhaegal dying to realise that.

That's how a dragon should be, an absolute force of destruction. They're basically giant, armoured, flying, flame throwers with teeth ffs.

Definitely an improvement on last week anyway.

LOL at Qyburn as well

lawlolawl

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Shame Dany didn't burn the Iron Fleet last week with her Kamikaze dive.

They did sweet FA this week and it would have made much more sense.

They needed Euron to wash up on the exact beach that Jamie was walking across at the exact moment he was walking across it so that they could have yet another fan service confrontation.


That was the entire purpose of the Iron Fleet in this episode.

whatawaster

Without doubt the worst episode of the show, and that's saying something with the season we have had so far.

Love the show, love the books. But I'm sorry, it has descended into nonsense.

No problem with Dany turning nuts, but the pacing was ridiculous. Going from breaker of chains to burner of innocents deserved some serious character development, which I don't believe we got. From when she made the decision to go crazy, we barely cut back to Day at all. Her reactions, her emotions, nothing just long range shots of Dragon. This show used to be about characters. Now it is just about set pieces. The writers have no idea what they are doing.

Jon Snow was arguably the main character in this show. He has contributed nothing to anything in this season. Ditto Tyrion.

Cleganebowl was so out of place and nothing but fan service. They deserved a final face off, but not right at the climax of the series, with the ends of the arcs of Jaime and Cersei. The worst part was, it was a duel with no consequence.

By the end, I just wanted it to end.

The Jaime and Cersei moment was the only bit I cared about. I don't like where they have gone with Jaime's arc, but at least it was some attempt at making a connection between two characters. It was the only moment in the entire 90 minutes that can say that

Nabber

Arya should have died. It made all the sequences with her pointless, unless she is now destined to kill Dany after witnessing seeing innocents die.
Arya in general needs to be removed from the stories at this point. She severed her purpose, trained with the faceless men, gave her the ability(?) to sneak up on the night King. Her arc should have ended there.

Euron meeting Jamie, terrible ending for Euron, a guy who got way too much screen time. Stabs Jamie twice, Jamie continues on like it's no mans business. Euron burning on the ship would have been better. Jamie needs to be mortally wounded? Then have a rock hit him.

lawlolawl

Nabber wrote: »

Jamie needs to be mortally wounded? Then have a rock hit him.

He didn't even need to be wounded.


Him and Cersei would still have gotten trapped trying to escape.


The showrunners just wanted to have yet another fan service face-off with Jamie and Euron.

bur

"How did they find you"

*Jaime holds up his golden hand*

I went from laughing to crying, what a scene.

facehugger99

Not sure if my expectations have been lowered by the previous two episodes but I though that was a big step-up.

Intense.

whatawaster

Why does Bran have no role in any of this. The writers should have killed him in episode 3. It makes no sense that he is not somehow intervening in this

banie01

The show really has been on a downward trajectory over the 2nd half of season 7 and onto season 8.

Characters dying is one thing.
But the sheer character assassination of personality and belief that is being rolled out this season is a stretch.
The threads of story and of character seem to have become too much for D&D and rather than weave a coherent story it's become a race to whittle down the contenders for the throne in to a morass of poor stereotypical tropes and annoying predictably that the show studiously avoided for so so long!

Really really disappointing end to so many fantastically well set up arcs.

jebidiah

Another slip up, I wonder how many in total in the whole show?

razorblunt

jebidiah wrote: »

Another slip up, I wonder how many in total in the whole show?

That’s already been proven false though.

Rezident

Kunkka wrote: »

Second watch completed and one thought occurred to me.. All those people who named their daughter or pets Khalessi are going to be pissed...

Why? Now the name is even cooler than the usual goodie who predictably wins and they all live happily ever after. That lark doesn't fly any more, not in this world or that.

lawlolawl

whatawaster wrote: »

Why does Bran have no role in any of this. The writers should have killed him in episode 3. It makes no sense that he is not somehow intervening in this

He was there so that Arya could omae wa mou shindeiru the Night King whilst he stood gaping at his vintage wheelchair.

razorblunt

Nabber wrote: »

Arya should have died. It made all the sequences with her pointless, unless she is now destined to kill Dany after witnessing seeing innocents die.
Arya in general needs to be removed from the stories at this point. She severed her purpose, trained with the faceless men, gave her the ability(?) to sneak up on the night King. Her arc should have ended there.

Euron meeting Jamie, terrible ending for Euron, a guy who got way too much screen time. Stabs Jamie twice, Jamie continues on like it's no mans business. Euron burning on the ship would have been better. Jamie needs to be mortally wounded? Then have a rock hit him.

They could have just shown Euron washed up and absolutely wrecked from the swim that would even the fight.
I think the writers were bigger fans of Euron than any of the viewers.

razorblunt

Also I hate when an actor/actress becomes flavour of the month. The mother in Kings Landing is in Line of Duty, Chernobyl and now this, I actually shouted “ah not her again” when I saw her.

EagererBeaver

razorblunt wrote: »

Also I hate when an actor/actress becomes flavour of the month. The mother in Kings Landing is in Line of Duty, Chernobyl and now this, I actually shouted “ah not her again” when I saw her.

Was that your one from AC3 Kate in LoD tells to piss off in the most recent season?