What practice/beliefs make you instantly lose respect for someone?

gormdubhgorm · 09-05-2019 9:01am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Strange you mention "Inter Milan" as that's not the name of the club, just the name that is used in English.

You're doing the exact thing you are complaining about.

Your missing the point deliberately, yet again.
I put that in to see would you pick it up, to see how far you wish to go. In your continuance of being willfully blind on my main point.

There are exceptions of course:
What is place colloquially known as in it's own country and world wide?
What is it's brand name in it's native language?
Are people generally capable of saying that phrase whether they have learnt that phrase as native speakers or not?
What is the level of difficulty of the phrase?

I would suggest that, even the most limited Irish gombeen in the pub with Celtic tattoos on one arm. and Man United tattoos on the other, has pronounced PSG in it's full term - as - 'Paree San Geeer-maaan'. Not 'Par-iss Saint Ger-main'.

Yet Irish people with 'issues' with the Irish language years of schooling from all socio-economic backgrounds say 'TG four' not 'TG Ceathair'.

I would surmise you are one of those people part of the problem, who thinks they are being clever?
You are superb/quick at the proof reading of others posts in the English language. (in successive texts 'gey' 'reared' for example)

But, you nonetheless pretend that saying 'TG ceathair' (for an Irish person with even basic schooling) is somehow tied up with it's own intrinsic difficulties.
Would I expect a person from outside Ireland to say 'TG ceathair' ?
No, even though I know people from America, Russia, France and Sudan who say 'TG ceathair'.
I would not expect all non-Irish people to do the same.

It is Irish people who make the conscious effort to say 'TG four' that are the ones who irk me. Which is the point of this thread. I lose respect for them.
If you are one of those people it is up to you.
If you are honest with yourself, you know, and I know that an Irish person who says 'TG four' raises a number of red flags about thier mindset towards the Irish language.
In poker terms it is 'tell'. A blatant one at that, particularly as the phrase 'TG ceathair' is said ad nauseam on the channel. It is also a brand name, a known name.
Yet those same 'TG four' people who refuse (or even try) to say 'TG ceathair' can say 'luas, taoiseach, oireachteas' etc.
Why do they do this? Because they do not have the immediate knowledge to reverse those terms into English.
So Irish people saying 'TG four' and not 'TG ceathair' are a definite red flag on mindset for me. It is a conscious choice.

The worst are those from the higher socio-economic background raised in Ireland, educated in Ireland that insist on saying 'TG four'.
However, they have no issue saying 'hors d'oeuvre' for a 'starter' when trying to sound sophisticated etc. Those people are my particular 'TG four' subset who I would instantly lose respect for.

Sonics2k · 09-05-2019 12:01pm

Use of the words leftist/rightist (rightist I've never seen) in a discussion.

Instantly know the discussion will go nowhere.

Grayson · 09-05-2019 12:09pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

What a dude. He's the type of guy who you'd love to go get a pint with. Unreal banter I'd say.

He doesn't drink. And I believe his favorite topic is making up stories about himself.

partyguinness · 09-05-2019 12:16pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

If you are honest with yourself, you know, and I know that an Irish person who says 'TG four' raises a number of red flags about thier mindset towards the Irish language.
In poker terms it is 'tell'. A blatant one at that, particularly as the phrase 'TG ceathair' is said ad nauseam on the channel. It is also a brand name, a known name.
Yet those same 'TG four' people who refuse (or even try) to say 'TG ceathair' can say 'luas, taoiseach, oireachteas' etc.
Why do they do this? Because they do not have the immediate knowledge to reverse those terms into English.
So Irish people saying 'TG four' and not 'TG ceathair' are a definite red flag on mindset for me. It is a conscious choice.

The worst are those from the higher socio-economic background raised in Ireland, educated in Ireland that insist on saying 'TG four'.
However, they have no issue saying 'hors d'oeuvre' for a 'starter' when trying to sound sophisticated etc. Those people are my particular 'TG four' subset who I would instantly lose respect for.

I hear what you are saying. It reminds of that little obnoxious **** Gay Byrne. You just knew underneath the 'Uncle Gaybo' facade he was simmering with resentment toward Irishness.

He hated the Irish accent and the way we pronounce certain English words. No appreciation that our different speech etc was natural and what makes everyone different. He expected us all to sound like the BBC with the 'Queen's English'.

He is part of the same generation of hating Irishness and that the split in 1922 upset their nice middle class love in with the Brits (I am also thinking of 'Sir' Terry Wogan and 'Sir' Bob Geldof).

The amount of times they would ****e on about Ireland in 2019 (Geldof) as if it was still 1950 with DeV and Archie McQuaid running the show. So you had a ****ty grey oppressed childhood get over it Ireland is no longer like that.

Annoyingly that is still the narrative they spin on UK television- they cannot have any show about Ireland without finding the biggest Holy Mary going who starts rabbiting on about moving statues. I have my head in hands as the wife just pulls the piss- just hoping Danny Healy Rae doesn't pop up.

Hotblack Desiato · 10-05-2019 3:36pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I put that in to see would you pick it up, to see how far you wish to go.

Suuuure.

But, you nonetheless pretend that saying 'TG ceathair' (for an Irish person with even basic schooling) is somehow tied up with it's own intrinsic difficulties.

Where did I say that?
They can say that if they want, I do myself.
They're speaking English though, so can say "T G four" if they want to and not be incorrect, either.

One would be regarded as being a right annoying boring arse if one were down the pub watching a European game and every time someone said "Inter Milan" corrected them "No, no they're called Internazionale."

Even worse would be "this reveals your ignorant mindset against the Italian language blah blah".

Sardonicat · 10-05-2019 3:55pm

Out of interest, how are the letters To and G pronounced on Irish? Are they the same as in English, 'tee' and 'gee' ( with a hard G? I doubt it somehow, but sure someone will be along with much better Irish than I to clarify. It seems strange to me to pronounce the letters in English and say the number in Irish. Someone up thread mentioned TV 5 ( the French Channel that was available on some cable packages ) I would have pronounced that Tay Vay Cinq , not TV cinq or Tay Vay five.

We learn the alphabet for European languages at school. Why not for Irish? In short, why get your knickers in a twist about saying 'four' when you've no problem with the letters being pronounced in English?

10-05-2019 4:10pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

Out of interest, how are the letters To and G pronounced on Irish? Are they the same as in English

Similar to English, except maybe with more of a bogger accent and a bit of an attitude.

TAY JAY CEATHAIR (say it kinda angrily, you almost have to spit it out)

gormdubhgorm · 10-05-2019 7:38pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Suuuure.

Where did I say that?
They can say that if they want, I do myself.
They're speaking English though, so can say "T G four" if they want to and not be incorrect, either.

One would be regarded as being a right annoying boring arse if one were down the pub watching a European game and every time someone said "Inter Milan" corrected them "No, no they're called Internazionale."

Even worse would be "this reveals your ignorant mindset against the Italian language blah blah".

Your deliberately missing the point and you know it. You are trying your hardest to twist it.
Have a think about it and re-read my original comments if that helps. I have laid them out very clearly in two posts previous to this.
It is the mindset of those that say 'TG four' it is a clear tell on mindset on those born and raised in Ireland etc. Plus 'TG ceathair' is how the station is branded. It is it's brand name.
Yet you refuse to accept it on this public forum, and would rather be contrary for the sake of it.
I suspect you know what type of Irish people say 'TG four' (as you are one) and deliberately avoid saying 'TG ceathair' on purpose, but you just don't want to admit it. You are definitely the type who would say 'hors d'oeuvre' instead of 'starter to try and sound sophisticated, yet refuse to say TG ceathair.
Enjoy your 'hors d'oeuvre's' during your sophisticated dinner party this weekend.

OldMrBrennan83 · 10-05-2019 7:44pm

Two letters and a number.

TG4

T - G - 4

T - G - Four

Tee Gee Four

But seriously, all that stuff about people deliberately saying 4 (four) for your tinfoil hat reasons sounds seriously deranged.

gormdubhgorm · 10-05-2019 7:58pm

Just to ad another one someone else posted 'hats in gyms'.

I would agree with that one but go another level worse.

'Backwards basehats' in gyms.

As Backwards Baseball hats are annoying in any situation. But in a gym setting they seem even worse.

gormdubhgorm · 10-05-2019 8:00pm

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Two letters and a number.

TG4

T - G - 4

T - G - Four

Tee Gee Four

But seriously, all that stuff about people deliberately saying 4 (four) for your tinfoil hat reasons sounds seriously deranged.

haha it is not deranged I am looking at it from the bigger picture.
It tells me an awful lot about the 'Irish' person, from my experience.

Another one is people who say 'kick off' instead of 'throw in' for a GAA match.
It is annoying, but it immediately tells me they are only casual GAA fans. I don't lose respect for them on that one, because each to thier own.
But the 'TG four' one does annoy me.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 8:02pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

haha it is not deranged I am looking at it from the bigger picture.
It tells me an awful lot about the 'Irish' person, from my experience.

What do you mean?

Why do you have 'Irish' in inverted commas. It could be their parents couldn't speak Irish or they have a different background but feel just as Irish as you. Don't judge people.

lawred2 · 10-05-2019 8:04pm

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Two letters and a number.

TG4

T - G - 4

T - G - Four

Tee Gee Four

But seriously, all that stuff about people deliberately saying 4 (four) for your tinfoil hat reasons sounds seriously deranged.

It's name as an entity is not TG Four though.

Would be like me calling my Spanish colleague John when his name is Juan..

Or even more relevant - I wouldn't call TV Cinq TV Five

Dakota Dan · 10-05-2019 8:04pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

There's actually a list

Flat earthers,
Anti vaxxers,
9-11 Truthers,
Obama is a Muslim,
George soros is trying to enslave us,
Elitists (hate that word) are trying to enslave us,
People who put blackcurrent in Guinness.

Go home Yank

OldMrBrennan83 · 10-05-2019 8:05pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

haha it is not deranged I am looking at it from the bigger picture.
It tells me an awful lot about the 'Irish' person, from my experience.

Another one is people who say 'kick off' instead of throw in for a GAA match.
It is annoying but it immediately tells me they are only casual GAA fans. I don't lose respect for them on that one because each to thier own.
But the TG four one does annoy me.

I'd be with you on a lot of things regarding Irishness, or the want to reject it these days, but I really don't think it's much more than anyone seeing a 4 and thinking 'four' because that's what they were reared calling the number. If it was written 'ceathair' and people said 'four' then maybe.

gormdubhgorm · 10-05-2019 8:06pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

What do you mean?

Why do you have 'Irish' in inverted commas. It could be their parents couldn't speak Irish or they have a different background but feel just as Irish as you. Don't judge people.

Read my previous posts I said that people born and raised in Ireland have no excuse not to say 'TG ceathair'.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 8:07pm

lawred2 wrote: »

It's name as an entity is not TG Four though.

Would be like me calling my Spanish colleague John when his name is Juan..

Or even more relevant - I wouldn't call TV Cinq TV Five

Ill call it TG ceathair then.

I thought when you were speaking in ENglish you just called it TG four though. I wasn't being funny i just thought that was what you called it in English!

gormdubhgorm · 10-05-2019 8:08pm

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

I'd be with you on a lot of things regarding Irishness, or the want to reject it these days, but I really don't think it's much more than anyone seeing a 4 and thinking 'four' because that's what they were reared calling the number. If it was written 'ceathair' and people said 'four' then maybe.

They know it is 'TG ceathair' and refuse to say it.
Foreigners I can understand them not saying it.
But Irish people?
There is definitely something wrong there.

Strumms · 10-05-2019 8:09pm

Round dodgers.

Religious nut jobs.

**** drivers.

People who rush to judgement without having the full picture or having walked a mile in that persons shoes.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 8:10pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Read my previous posts I said that people born and raised in Ireland have no excuse not to say 'TG ceathair'.

Then what do you think it says about them?

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 8:10pm

Strumms wrote: »

People who rush to judgement without having the full picture or having walked a mile in that persons shoes.

Amen.

stanley1989 · 10-05-2019 8:14pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

This is the main one for me it tells me so much about the person.

In particular people who are born and rared in Ireland, that make a deliberate and conscious effort to say TG 'four' = TG4.
Would it kill you to say 'ceathair'?

You can make the argument of course that they are translating the Irish word to English, and it has the correct meaning.

Yet the really galling thing is those people who make the conscious effort to say 'four' have no problem saying the following:

1) Luas (which means speed - ironic really as it is not very fast)

2) Dáil (which means assembly)

3) Oireachtas (which means assembly/gathering)

4) Taoiseach (which means chief/chieftain)

5) Garda (which means guard)

There used to be channel called TV5 in France now TV5monde. TV5 = TV 'cinq'.

Even a fella like me who has very little French would say 'Cinq' because that is what the French say.
It's the station's name even I know it means five!

When I hear an Irish person in particular say 'TG four' it immediately tells me a lot about them and thier mindset, without them having to say much more.

Yawn

gormdubhgorm · 10-05-2019 8:14pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Then what do you think it says about them?

I said:

It may mean a few things if they are born and rared in Ireland:

If the person is Irish - depending on who you are talking to it can lead a person to make a number of assumptions which may/may not be contained in the following list of the 'TG Four' people

1) They my have had a poor education and are from lower socio-economic background

2) They have a top class education, and are highly intelligent, from a high socio-economic background - and consciously want to avoid Irish, as they deem it inferior (this is the worse of the lot in my view)

3) They may have an extreme fear of using any Irish language

4) They may not want to be associated with the Irish language, and make a conscious effort to distance themselves from it

The irony is that if those that consciously make the effort to say 'TG four' knew a word such as 'Luas' they would say 'Speed' instead....

rgace · 10-05-2019 8:22pm

I have never heard an Irish person say 4 instead of ceathair, I would probably just find it funny that they don't know what it is called rather than annoying.

jimbobaloobob · 10-05-2019 8:24pm

Jeez let e relax it's Friday evening. The late late show will be heavy enough going.

General nutjobs and people who have to make their point the final one make me lose respects

partyguinness · 10-05-2019 9:07pm

Here in the UK they say the 'Tour de Yorkshire' with the French pronunciation. I thought they were just being funny the first time I heard it but no...it's serious.

Sardonicat · 10-05-2019 9:09pm

partyguinness wrote: »

Here in the UK they say the 'Tour de Yorkshire' with the French pronunciation. I thought they were just being funny the first time I heard it but no...it's serious.

Do Yorkshire folk say that?

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 9:10pm

People who prefer dogs over cats!

THEY ARE EQUAL!

partyguinness · 10-05-2019 9:13pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

Do Yorkshire folk say that?

I don't live in Yorkshire or know anyone from there so I don't know to be honest. I am further south and my running club has a lot of cyclists.

jimbobaloobob · 10-05-2019 9:13pm

partyguinness wrote: »

Here in the UK they say the 'Tour de Yorkshire' with the French pronunciation. I thought they were just being funny the first time I heard it but no...it's serious.

That's used for a lot of things that have a cycling connection. The official language of cycling is french and I guess also they are trying to appeal to the population that cycle
But I know what you mean it's a bit cringe. There's a charity cycle coming up in Galway soon. The Tour de lough corrib.

What practice/beliefs make you instantly lose respect for someone?

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