Are we used to Dublin being a Kip?

KikiLaRue · 07-05-2019 1:14pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I love that we did this, and I hope it means further progress, but for the love of Jaysis can we stop pretending it makes us any better than our neighbours?

We did it because we are the only European country which had no choice in the matter. None of them created a constitutional ban to begin with, or if they did, were able to change it without a plebiscite.

We had to have a plebiscite because we are pretty unique in legally requiring one. And by té way, having a vote on whether other citizens deserve basic human dignity is no great achievement. Tyranny of the majority, and all of that.

After the celebrations ended, I know people who were seething about the fact that others were voting on their civil rights. It was a bittersweet victory at best.

I take your point. I still don't understand on what basis you're saying Ireland is currently more conservative than say Italy or France.

Ush1 · 07-05-2019 1:17pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Our Taoiseach is not Indian. He is from Ireland.

We were the last country in Europe to legalise mainstream access to abortion. We are perhaps the only country in Europe that still charges women for the contraceptive pill. Our divorce laws remain firmly Conservative.

Our economic model is decidedly Anglo Saxon, having never truly embraced continental social democracy. In a similar vein, we favour low taxation unlike most other EU states, and despite much domestic whimpering, are considered by the OECD to have a low-tax, low-welfare system of governance. We are socially and economically conservative relative to our neighbours.

People think that because they voted for Repeal and gay marriage the country has magically transformed itself. In fact, as Britain prepares to leave the EU, we are set to replace it as possibly the most conservative EU member state.

Saw that one a mile off. Course, he's as Irish as bacon and cabbage is Mr.Varadkar.

One of the most generous welfare systems, very pro union and pro workers rights, very low sentencing and suspended sentences in general, no capital punishment, etc...

Divorce is currently being looked at in the next referendum, first country to approve gay marriage by popular vote, Catholic church is openly criticised (including by our leader)...

07-05-2019 1:18pm

KikiLaRue wrote: »

I take your point. I still don't understand on what basis you're saying Ireland is currently more conservative than say Italy or France.

Mainly on economic grounds.

After World War 2,as the iron curtain deseended in Europe, Western European democracies mainly embraced social democracy. Some in the East adapted communism, and they retain many of those relics today.

Only Ireland and Britain adhered rigidly to an Anglo Saxon model of governance (something of a misnomer, given that the Germans under Konrad Adenauer and his successors adapted economic policies that borrowed heavily from social democracy).

Now Britain is gone, we are probably the most economically liberal, and (legally at least, but probably not popularly) most socially conservative Anglo Saxon boy in the classroom

Mad_maxx · 07-05-2019 1:24pm

Ireland is a welfare lifers nirvana, even in the nordic countries, you don't get to indefinitely draw the same level of benefits

Even amongst the general population, a philosophy of state dependency prevails, big government attitudes rule

seasidedub · 07-05-2019 1:25pm

EL_Loco wrote: »

When was your first drink OP?
Were you under age?
If you saw the image of your former self while in the company of your tourist would he have been disgusted at the scene?

Do you support the gards as much as is within reason of a citizen who thinks it falls to them to stop littering and verbal abuse on the streets?

Note: (I'm not a gard)

Don't know about the OP, but yes I was underage having my first drink, but never hassled anyone, never damaged other people's property, gave abuse to passers by and never, ever threw litter as I was taught by my parents to never do that, ever.

Dublin is a kip of uncivilized inhabitants- been to many, many EU cities and the centres are lovely, flower filled, cafes everywhere clean streets. Dublin is awful.

seasidedub · 07-05-2019 1:31pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Ireland is a welfare lifers nirvana, even in the nordic countries, you don't get to indefinitely draw the same level of benefits

Exactly! The lefties don't get this or believe it, but I lived, studied and worked in a scandi country and speak the language which Coppinger, Murphy et al do not/did not.

You go on unemployment which is related to prior earnings and paid by your union for a set period, then social security again related to earnings in part and paid for a set time, finally you go on "daily allowance " whic is about 350 to 400e a month. You can't get the same benefit forever. Ireland is a paradise for welfare, the Roma advertise us in their villages.

07-05-2019 1:34pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Ireland is a welfare lifers nirvana, even in the nordic countries, you don't get to indefinitely draw the same level of benefits

not sure about the Nordic countries, but I'm pretty sure their welfare benefits are significantly higher than ours. Don't they offer welfare as a proportion of your working salary, and then continue to offer it at out basic level subsequently?

I lived in France for two years, I had about three pensions on the go at one point all heavily funded by the French taxpayer. French welfare is, itself, legendary.

demanufactured · 07-05-2019 1:39pm

To answer the OP, yes.

El_Bee · 07-05-2019 1:51pm

Many of our neighbors can no longer be bothered to pay their bin charges so just throw their rubbish out onto the street, if we weren't propped up by Multinationals and the EU we'd be a third world country.

Mad_maxx · 07-05-2019 2:05pm

seasidedub wrote: »

Exactly! The lefties don't get this or believe it, but I lived, studied and worked in a scandi country and speak the language which Coppinger, Murphy et al do not/did not.

You go on unemployment which is related to prior earnings and paid by your union for a set period, then social security again related to earnings in part and paid for a set time, finally you go on "daily allowance " whic is about 350 to 400e a month. You can't get the same benefit forever. Ireland is a paradise for welfare, the Roma advertise us in their villages.

The nordics are deeply conformist, there is no delinquency culture there comparable to Ireland, swedes support big government most certainly but expect everyone to be civic minded

The left in Ireland demand certain groups be given sacred cow status where nothing is expected of them including basic common decency

Fecklessness is excused provided you are a traveller or come from a single parent family etc, bigotry of low expectations

suicide_circus · 07-05-2019 2:06pm

El_Bee wrote: »

Many of our neighbors can no longer be bothered to pay their bin charges so just throw their rubbish out onto the street, if we weren't propped up by Multinationals and the EU we'd be a third world country.

yep. i have neighbours who simply light their rubbish on fire on the street.

suicide_circus · 07-05-2019 2:09pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The nordics are deeply conformist, there is no delinquency culture there comparable to Ireland, swedes support big government most certainly but expect everyone to be civic minded

The left in Ireland demand certain groups be given sacred cow status where nothing is expected of them including basic common decency

Fecklessness is excused provided you are a traveller or come from a single parent family etc, bigotry of low expectations

its rights without the attendant responsibilities. rights without responsibilities breeds a delinquent culture.

Ush1 · 07-05-2019 2:10pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The nordics are deeply conformist, there is no delinquency culture there comparable to Ireland, swedes support big government most certainly but expect everyone to be civic minded

The left in Ireland demand certain groups be given sacred cow status where nothing is expected of them including basic common decency

Fecklessness is excused provided you are a traveller or come from a single parent family etc, bigotry of low expectations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory

We could use it over here.

Deebles McBeebles · 07-05-2019 2:11pm

El_Bee wrote: »

Many of our neighbors can no longer be bothered to pay their bin charges so just throw their rubbish out onto the street, if we weren't propped up by Multinationals and the EU we'd be a third world country.

suicide_circus wrote: »

yep. i have neighbours who simply light their rubbish on fire on the street.

Is that true lads? Both in Dublin?

I mean I've seen rubbish dumped in the most unlikely spots but not just out the front of a neighbours house.

suicide_circus · 07-05-2019 2:24pm

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Is that true lads? Both in Dublin?

I mean I've seen rubbish dumped in the most unlikely spots but not just out the front of a neighbours house.

yep. well inside the m50. its strange because the neighbours in question have everything else paid for them so you'd assume waste collection was included.

jester77 · 07-05-2019 2:28pm

I think that everyone is having a go at the origin of the OP's friend, instead of talking about the littering, sums up the Irish attitude nicely. If anyone threw litter on the ground here in Germany they would be quickly put in their place.

As for the weed, I don't think that is a big deal at all. It is generally accepted everywhere and is slowly being legalised.

Danger781 · 07-05-2019 2:32pm

I'm baffled by some of the comments in this thread... I've been in Limerick a number of times now visiting friends and I've always had a wonderful experience. We've felt safe on nights out, gone for an uninterrupted walk through the city where no knackers have approached us asking for money.. it's clean and generally speaking the people are friendly.. Maybe I've only been in the "nice" part of Limerick? Can't bate a pint in Nancy's!

Now, Dublin on the other hand.. I hate the place. I don't know what it is about Dublin but I'm always on edge there. Numerous times I've been on the Luas there's been drugged up scumbags hardly able to stand or speak, or scummy youths acting out. Top that off with being squashed into the Luas like sardines and it's not a nice experience. You can't go down any street in Dublin without being approached by some unfortunate soul who just needs a euro to get the bus. I've never experienced that abroad anywhere in any other country. Worst of all.. the Dublin accent.. sorry Dubs.

I don't know why anyone who would choose to live in Dublin if Cork, Limerick or Galway are alternative options.

Maybe I just haven't properly experienced the good things that Dublin has to offer.. I'm totally open to changing my mind as I'm sure there's a good reason for so many people wanting to live there.. but as of now I'd honestly rather live anywhere else in Ireland.

Deebles McBeebles · 07-05-2019 2:33pm

jester77 wrote: »

If anyone threw litter on the ground here in Germany they would be quickly put in their place.

Vee haf vays of making you....bin it.

jimgoose · 07-05-2019 2:36pm

Danger781 wrote: »

I'm baffled by some of the comments in this thread... I've been in Limerick a number of times now visiting friends and I've always had a wonderful experience. We've felt safe on nights out, gone for an uninterrupted walk through the city where no knackers have approached us asking for money.. it's clean and generally speaking the people are friendly.. Maybe I've only been in the "nice" part of Limerick? Can't bate a pint in Nancy's!...

You'll have no problem whatsoever in Limerick at any hour of the day unless you're looking for one. It is theoretically possible to wander into some dangerous corner of Southill or Prospect, for example, but rather unlikely.

jam_mac_jam · 07-05-2019 2:44pm

I love Dublin and living here, but you can't deny the crime and low level disorder problem. The general sense of unease that I feel in certain places even in the day time. Most of the North side of the city centre is a kip which could be nice but has just been let get run down. Areas like Mount joy square should be lovely.

I was on a train about a week ago going home at about 5 and there was a very frightening man screaming at people outside. Myself and another woman had to go and tell the driver. I got off at an earlier stop as I was worried for my safety.

Does this happen in other countries? I don't know as I haven't lived there but I know I am very nervous at the train station after I go to the gym where I am often surrounded by teenagers smoking weed. Maybe they are just smoking weed and they are no harm but I am nervous. There is an acceptance of low level crime in Dublin and littering.

El_Bee · 07-05-2019 2:46pm

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Is that true lads? Both in Dublin?

I mean I've seen rubbish dumped in the most unlikely spots but not just out the front of a neighbours house.

Yep, right onto the green in the middle of the estate, household rubbish and larger stuff, the kids do the burning though, in full view of their parents too:)

jam_mac_jam · 07-05-2019 2:48pm

El_Bee wrote: »

Yep, right onto the green in the middle of the estate, household rubbish and larger stuff, the kids do the burning though, in full view of their parents too:)

Jesus Christ

Hal3000 · 07-05-2019 2:49pm

I know it's not all the councils fault but can anyone here tell me the last time they saw litter pickers or street cleaners from the councils working in a Dublin suburb ? I've never in all my life living here ever seen one. All the councils do is empty the bins. They frequently drive by litter in their vans. City centre has street cleaners but they're ghosts in the suburbs. Why do we even pay property tax ? For what ?

Deebles McBeebles · 07-05-2019 2:50pm

El_Bee wrote: »

Yep, right onto the green in the middle of the estate, household rubbish and larger stuff, the kids do the burning though, in full view of their parents too:)

Wow that's pretty sh*tty. Must be like Halloween all the time around your gaff.

jimgoose · 07-05-2019 2:51pm

El_Bee wrote: »

Yep, right onto the green in the middle of the estate, household rubbish and larger stuff, the kids do the burning though, in full view of their parents too:)

That would drive me properly apeshit, I must say.

Danger781 · 07-05-2019 2:54pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Does this happen in other countries? I don't know as I haven't lived there but I know I am very nervous at the train station after I go to the gym where I am often surrounded by teenagers smoking weed. Maybe they are just smoking weed and they are no harm but I am nervous. There is an acceptance of low level crime in Dublin and littering.

I have experienced very similar situations in Dublin as well. I've spent the last six weeks in various parts of Australia.. Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide using their public transportation and I didn't see anything even remotely like this. The closest I've come was Melbourne where there was some less than savory characters hanging around drinking near the tram stop but they were quiet and kept to themselves in their little alcove.

I'm currently in Germany (Dusseldorf, Cologne and Bremen) and again I've not seen anything like Dublin. The closest I've come is rough looking people drinking near Dusseldorf station.

Riesen_Meal · 07-05-2019 3:01pm

Smoking weed and not putting their rubbish in the bin?

Will somebody please think of the children?

In fairness, (not all) but some teenagers are dirty little scruffs with little or no respect for their area around them....

topper75 · 07-05-2019 3:02pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The nordics are deeply conformist, there is no delinquency culture there comparable to Ireland, swedes support big government most certainly but expect everyone to be civic minded

The left in Ireland demand certain groups be given sacred cow status where nothing is expected of them including basic common decency

In other countries the left focus on the proletariat. Irish leftist culture is a mental movement unto itself, where the focus is sharply on the lumpen proletariat, an element Marx himself had little time for oddly enough.

suicide_circus wrote: »

its rights without the attendant responsibilities. rights without responsibilities breeds a delinquent culture.

Nailed it.

I urge people to be mindful of our cities' shortcomings but not to see that in extreme terms. A nice time is easily had in Dublin and Limerick but you need to be a little streetwise in both.

suicide_circus · 07-05-2019 3:02pm

do crazy people scream at commuters in train stations in other countries? yes absolutely. Difference is here the authorities are rarely to be seen and they are unarmed.

El_Bee · 07-05-2019 3:13pm

Hal3000 wrote: »

I know it's not all the councils fault but can anyone here tell me the last time they saw litter pickers or street cleaners from the councils working in a Dublin suburb ? I've never in all my life living here ever seen one. All the councils do is empty the bins. They frequently drive by litter in their vans. City centre has street cleaners but they're ghosts in the suburbs. Why do we even pay property tax ? For what ?

The council actually does come around and picks it up (when it's not being burned by feral children) but all that does it encourage others to make use of a free waste disposal service.

Are we used to Dublin being a Kip?

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