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Anti-vaxxers

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    #3662
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 31,854 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Amantine wrote: »
    Lies! Scientist don't benefit from linking vaccines with health problems
    Well that is just a downright lie.
    One example below.
    http://briandeer.com/wakefield/legal-aid.htm
    http://briandeer.com/mmr/st-dec-2006.htm

    According to the figures, released under the Freedom of Information Act, Wakefield was paid £435,643 in fees, plus £3,910 expenses.


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    #3663
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,783 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Amantine wrote: »
    Lies! Scientist don't benefit from linking vaccines with health problems

    Depends on their motives and belief systems. There are always been and will always be isolated cranks and scientists and historians who produce faulty studies/reports due to a wide variety of motivations

    Wakefield has a fairly nice mansion for his troubles


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    #3664
    Amantine
    Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭Amantine


    Orion wrote: »
    And I'm sure the likes of Mercola and Wakefield are selling their snakeoil and lies purely for altruistic purposes.

    What does Mercola have to do with anything? Wakefield was a doctor making plenty of money in the UK, who lost his licence, that's hardly a business plan! His wife had to take on a job as a radio presenter in the US.


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    #3665
    Amantine
    Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭Amantine


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Depends on their motives and belief systems. There are always been and will always be isolated cranks and scientists and historians who produce faulty studies/reports due to a wide variety of motivations

    Wakefield has a fairly nice mansion for his troubles
    Wakefield is worth 1.7 Million, that's over his lifetime. The home was also paid for by his wife who had to work as a radio presenter. My in laws with their large home in Bray and two investment apartments are worth about the same. So are thousands of people in Dublin with modest jobs who are the same age as Wakefield. He would have done much better if he had kept his mouth shut and kept his licence. Compare this to the billions that the pharmaceutical companies make in a few months...


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    #3666
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,243 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Amantine wrote: »
    Lies! Scientist don't benefit from linking vaccines with health problems, the pharmaceuticals however make billions!! It's also the pharmaceutical companies that have inflicted suffering for years all over the world to thousands of kids, for over 80 years including in Ireland:
    "Revelations in the years that followed showed Wellcome-sponsored trials in Ireland spanned almost half a century and involved dozens of institutions and thousands of children.

    Despite this, the company itself has only acknowledged four such trials."
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/vaccine-trials-unravelling-the-drug-trials-scandal-430889.html

    More dumping because you've been challenged...

    The people you linked to are cranks some of whom have profited from the misery of children. Do you hate autistic people? Anti vaxxers seem to revere the sort of child abusing filth who've profited from their misery.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #3667
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,243 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Amantine wrote: »
    Wakefield is worth 1.7 Million, that's over his lifetime. The home was also paid for by his wife who had to work as a radio presenter. My in laws with their large home in Bray and two investment apartments are worth about the same. So are thousands of people in Dublin with modest jobs who are the same age as Wakefield. He would have done much better if he had kept his mouth shut and kept his licence. Compare this to the billions that the pharmaceutical companies make in a few months...

    Nope. Brian Deer's devastating exposé is here:

    https://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c5347

    Wakefield was going to be minted for life. All he had to do was abuse a few autistic children (notice a theme here?) for "research" and use the results to start a company.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #3668
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,783 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Amantine wrote: »
    Wakefield is worth 1.7 Million, that's over his lifetime. The home was also paid for by his wife who had to work as a radio presenter. My in laws with their large home in Bray and two investment apartments are worth about the same. So are thousands of people in Dublin with modest jobs who are the same age as Wakefield. He would have done much better if he had kept his mouth shut and kept his licence. Compare this to the billions that the pharmaceutical companies make in a few months...

    He makes money from peddling quackery

    Other cranks or bad scientists have other motivations. There have been scientists/historians who have produced vast quantities of ****e, purely motivated by prejudice.

    This is why we rely on consensus of experts, and not isolated bad work


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    #3669
    Amantine
    Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭Amantine


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    More dumping because you've been challenged...

    The people you linked to are cranks some of whom have profited from the misery of children. Do you hate autistic people? Anti vaxxers seem to revere the sort of child abusing filth who've profited from their misery.
    You saying that over and over doesn't make it any less of a lie.


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    #3670
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,243 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Amantine wrote: »
    You saying that over and over doesn't make it any less of a lie.

    Accusations of lying from someone who calls people who disagree Nazis. You couldn't make it up.

    I called you on your BS so you've responded with your usual Gish Galloping misdirection nonsense.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #3671
    paddar
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭paddar


    Amantine wrote: »
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0162013411002212
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0946672X16304400
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0946672X17308763

    ''Our own analysis showed some figures had been altered. We requested a retraction because we could not understand how that had happened. We felt the data had been compromised.'' Quote from the authors of that first paper you cited. Translated, lol we just made stuff up but got caught out YOLO.


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    #3672
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,243 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    paddar wrote: »
    ''Our own analysis showed some figures had been altered. We requested a retraction because we could not understand how that had happened. We felt the data had been compromised.'' Quote from the authors of that first paper you cited. Translated, lol we just made stuff up but got caught out YOLO.

    They've had to retract a few studies. Mark of either venality or incompetence right there.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #3673
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,905 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Amantine wrote: »
    Wakefield is worth 1.7 Million, that's over his lifetime. The home was also paid for by his wife who had to work as a radio presenter. My in laws with their large home in Bray and two investment apartments are worth about the same. So are thousands of people in Dublin with modest jobs who are the same age as Wakefield. He would have done much better if he had kept his mouth shut and kept his licence. Compare this to the billions that the pharmaceutical companies make in a few months...
    I'm finding it difficult to tell: is your problem with the companies that they make profits?
    Given that the evidencs shows their products work, do you not think they should charge for their products?
    If the companies were prevented from making profits, do you think the same levels money would be spent on R&D?

    Also, do you think the world would have been a better place with Wakefield still practising medicine, given what we know of him?


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    #3674
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    I'm finding it difficult to tell: is your problem with the companies that they make profits?
    Given that the evidencs shows their products work, do you not think they should charge for their products?
    If the companies were prevented from making profits, do you think the same levels money would be spent on R&D?

    Also, do you think the world would have been a better place with Wakefield still practising medicine, given what we know of him?

    I honestly think a lot of people are ignorant of how expensive R&D cycles are and many of them come to nothing after all the money that was spent.


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    #3675
    paddar
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭paddar


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    They've had to retract a few studies. Mark of either venality or incompetence right there.

    Fool me once etc. The fact that they also ''recycled'' data from other studies would suggest that it is more of the former. In research you are only as good as your name, having to retract several studies because of shaky data would be the death knell of any normal academic career.


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    #3676
    ToBeFrank123
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    I think one of the conspiracies peddled here is that mmr causes autism.

    It doesn't.

    Its amazing how many people have been sucked in and continue to be sucked in by this disproved link/conspiracy.


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    #3677
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,905 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    ToBeFrank123 wrote: »
    I think one of the conspiracies peddled here is that mmr causes autism.

    It doesn't.

    Its amazing how many people have been sucked in and continue to be sucked in by this disproved link/conspiracy.
    Pseudoscience!
    For whatever reason, some people believe an incorrect article and stick to their gund despite mountins of evidence against it.
    Eventually it just becomes inherent stupidity!

    Personally I don't care what shíte the likes of Amantine believes. What I disapprove of is that weak minded people will believe their nonsense and allow their kids to go unvaccinated.
    I'll say it out loud: the likes of Amantine is promoting child abuse!


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    #3678
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    Amantine wrote: »
    What does Mercola have to do with anything? Wakefield was a doctor making plenty of money in the UK, who lost his licence, that's hardly a business plan! His wife had to take on a job as a radio presenter in the US.

    He didn't just lose his license - he committed fraud. He started the whole nonsense about the MMR purely for financial reasons. His business plan was to not get caught - that didn't work out too well for him.


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    #3679
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 12,979 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Example of the gift of the anti-vaxxers, the pictures of the child intubated for treatment for measles...wow. And anti-vax want to put your children through this.

    https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/mom-slams-antivaxxers-after-her-5monthold-baby-gets-measles-during-outbreak/

    (and of course the mum posting this to facebook has received threats. As always with the anti-vaxxers)


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    #3680
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    This is what antivaxxers have caused: https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/measles-update-united-states


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    #3681
    jeremyj1968
    Registered Users Posts: 2,331 ✭✭✭jeremyj1968


    Orion wrote: »
    This is what antivaxxers have caused: https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/measles-update-united-states

    No, that is what the media have told you that antivaxxers have caused. There is a difference.


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    #3682
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Nope. Brian Deer's devastating exposé is here:

    https://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c5347

    Wakefield was going to be minted for life. All he had to do was abuse a few autistic children (notice a theme here?) for "research" and use the results to start a company.


    lol Brian Deer is a proven Liar if that's all you have on Wakefield you don't have very much.


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    #3683
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    lol Brian Deer is a proven Liar if that's all you have on Wakefield you don't have very much.

    Propaganda mode reactivated.


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    #3684
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,243 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    lol Brian Deer is a proven Liar if that's all you have on Wakefield you don't have very much.

    Naturally, you can provide said proof. Whenever you're ready...

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #3685
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Naturally, you can provide said proof. Whenever you're ready...


    I already posted a video that showed him lying to the parent of autistic child in an email he sent to them.


    But you seem to think the video was fake.


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    #3686
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    I'm finding it difficult to tell: is your problem with the companies that they make profits?
    Given that the evidencs shows their products work, do you not think they should charge for their products?
    If the companies were prevented from making profits, do you think the same levels money would be spent on R&D?

    Also, do you think the world would have been a better place with Wakefield still practising medicine, given what we know of him?




    Merck the makers of the MMR Vaccine murdered up to half a million people with one of the their drugs. They should not even exist after vioxx.

    They also produced fake medical journals to promote Vioxx and had a "hit list" of Doctors they wanted to silence who were speaking out against the drug.

    What a great bunch of lads Merck are, such an "ethical" company who you can trust with your health...


    https://www.theweek.co.uk/us/46535/when-half-million-americans-died-and-nobody-noticed


    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/merck-created-hit-list-to-destroy-neutralize-or-discredit-dissenting-doctors/


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    #3687
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,243 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    I already posted a video that showed him lying to the parent of autistic child in an email he sent to them.


    But you seem to think the video was fake.

    Your conspiracy videos aren't proof. Actual proof when you're ready please.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #3688
    Amantine
    Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭Amantine


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    Merck the makers of the MMR Vaccine murdered up to half a million people with one of the their drugs. They should not even exist after vioxx.

    They also produced fake medical journals to promote Vioxx and had a "hit list" of Doctors they wanted to silence who were speaking out against the drug.

    What a great bunch of lads Merck are, such an "ethical" company who you can trust with your health...


    https://www.theweek.co.uk/us/46535/when-half-million-americans-died-and-nobody-noticed


    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/merck-created-hit-list-to-destroy-neutralize-or-discredit-dissenting-doctors/

    It's amazing isn't it? The power that pharmaceuticals have! They can abuse, hurt and murder millions of people and get away with it. Even in Ireland, all the files from the mother and baby homes disappeared in 2004.


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    #3689
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Your conspiracy videos aren't proof. Actual proof when you're ready please.


    "conspiracy" is anything you don't agree with.


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    #3690
    Amantine
    Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭Amantine


    jeremyj1968 wrote: »
    No, that is what the media have told you that antivaxxers have caused. There is a difference.
    Why is it that measles is such a big deal but superbugs or fungus like candida auris, which actually cause deaths, don't get advertised?


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    #3691
    Amantine
    Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭Amantine


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    "conspiracy" is anything you don't agree with.
    Thank you Dr. Brown. Conspiracy is anything that doesn't help sell vaccines.


This discussion has been closed.
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