Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

Jordan 199 · 06-03-2019 04:09AM

mickdw wrote: »

To be fair, Williams have branched out and perhaps that is their saviour right now.
A business that is a struggling f1 team will fold whereas a group that has a struggling f1 team might survive.

McLaren are too strong to stay at the back. They still have the ability to fund huge numbers of staff, still have the deep pockets and the name to attract top drivers.
I don't think this years car is going to be so bad and if Renault give them a fair package, they might go well.

McLaren are no longer attractive to top drivers. Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull are. Same with Renault. Three factory teams and a team with factory power units.

McLaren are a midfield team, and they will continue to be for quite sometime.

mickdw · 06-03-2019 09:09AM

Ya they are not going to attract someone looking for a world championship this year or next but the name still carries weight. Do you think Sainz sees his move there as a move to the back of the grid? I don't think so.
It's McLaren and all possibilities are there considering the facilities etc.
Customer engine is a problem but they won alot of races with mercedes power while mercedes were on the grid with the works team.
Engines i figure are converging now anyway.
People say it was a mistake to take the honda power units. Ron was right re needing to be a works team if looking towards championships. The mistake it seems was rubbishing honda instead of sticking with it and admitting their own weaknesses.

skipper_G · 06-03-2019 10:08AM

Nice little video on the Merc twitter feed with James Allison explaining the key changes from last year's car to this year's

https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/status/1102916425805639685

ppn · 06-03-2019 10:26AM

Jordan 199 wrote: »

McLaren are no longer attractive to top drivers. Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull are. Same with Renault. Three factory teams and a team with factory power units.

McLaren are a midfield team, and they will continue to be for quite sometime.

Ricciardo gave McLaren some thought before deciding on Renault by all accounts.... Should he have stuck with Red Bull though pushed himself against Max? Time is ticking for him...

El_Duderino 09 · 06-03-2019 11:37AM

mickdw wrote: »

It's McLaren and all possibilities are there considering the facilities etc.
Customer engine is a problem but they won alot of races with mercedes power while mercedes were on the grid with the works team.

I don't think McLaren won many races while Mercedes was on the grid as a works team. McLaren was the works Mercedes team until 2014. Mercedes owned a share of the team.

AMKC · 06-03-2019 03:25PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I don't think McLaren won many races while Mercedes was on the grid as a works team. McLaren was the works Mercedes team until 2014. Mercedes owned a share of the team.

Surely not sure Mercedes have been there since 2010 ever since they bought the Brawn F1 team so surely that was the works Mercedes team then?

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 06-03-2019 04:33PM

Between 2010 - 2014 McLaren bought back Mercedes 40% share in the team.

El_Duderino 09 · 06-03-2019 06:54PM

Peyton Lively Tiller wrote: »

Between 2010 - 2014 McLaren bought back Mercedes 40% share in the team.

That's what I was trying to say except you actually had the correct information.

So McLaren won some races between 2010-14. Fair enough

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 06-03-2019 07:06PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That's what I was trying to say except you actually had the correct information.

So McLaren won some races between 2010-14. Fair enough

Last race win Brazil 2012 for both the team and Jenson Button, which incidentally was also Button's last official podium, remember even though he was classified 3rd in Australia 2014 he didn't actually stand on the podium itself.

Kevin Magnussen (on his F1 debut) was officially the last McLaren driver to stand on an F1 podium.

Mclaren's chassis just dropped off a cliff from 2013 onwards.

Also fitting that Magnussen took the last podium to date for a team both he and his father both made their f1 debut for.

I think Mercedes have made it very clear they aren't interested in supplying McLaren in the same way Honda aren't interested in working with Alonso.

I also took the liberty of checking up how many wins McLaren took since Mercedes returned in 2010.

2010 - 5 wins
2011 - 6 wins
2012 - 7 wins
2013 - 0 wins
2014 - 0 wins

mickdw · 06-03-2019 07:10PM

Mercedes were on the grid with their current team in 2010.

McLaren won 5 races in 2010
6 races in 2011
7 races in 2012

All with mercedes engines.
Fair enough mercedes were share holders but the point still stands.

Renault may do a fantastic job on their engine..... they do generally get there. McLaren could win a race next year.

Harika · 06-03-2019 09:53PM

Williams say chief technical officer Paddy Lowe “is taking a leave of absence from the business for personal reasons”. Comes after the car was not ready for testing, missing 2.5 days, and was slow when it ran

Cool_CM · 06-03-2019 09:54PM

Autosport are reporting that Paddy Lowe has taken a "leave of absence". Have to feel for the guy.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/141929/lowe-takes-leave-from-troubled-williams-team

pjohnson · 06-03-2019 10:01PM

Harika wrote: »

Williams say chief technical officer Paddy Lowe “is taking a leave of absence from the business for personal reasons”. Comes after the car was not ready for testing, missing 2.5 days, and was slow when it ran

Dont forget then that the hopelessly late car then had its mirrors and suspension rejected by FIA.

Harika · 06-03-2019 10:02PM

Cool_CM wrote: »

Autosport are reporting that Paddy Lowe has taken a "leave of absence". Have to feel for the guy.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/141929/lowe-takes-leave-from-troubled-williams-team

So a lost season ahead for Russell and kubica.

skipper_G · 06-03-2019 10:07PM

Ouch, roughly translated that PR speak is
"you ****** up, now it's time for a rolling head"

ppn · 06-03-2019 10:36PM

Harika wrote: »

Williams say chief technical officer Paddy Lowe “is taking a leave of absence from the business for personal reasons”. Comes after the car was not ready for testing, missing 2.5 days, and was slow when it ran

He hasn't been looking well recently. Hope the stress hasn't made him ill!

AMKC · 06-03-2019 10:36PM

Harika wrote: »

Williams say chief technical officer Paddy Lowe “is taking a leave of absence from the business for personal reasons”. Comes after the car was not ready for testing, missing 2.5 days, and was slow when it ran

Things not going well for him then. I don't know what to believe. Maybe it it is for personal reason's or maybe its Williams wanting to blame someone.

Jordan 199 · 06-03-2019 11:29PM

I wonder who will Williams bring in to replace Lowe?

mickdw · 06-03-2019 11:41PM

It was rumoured that Lowe was attempting a take over. Maybe bullsh1t or maybe his plan has come a cropper.

flazio · 06-03-2019 11:46PM

I really fear they are going the way of Tyrell now. Once a great team now just mobile chicanes. Good job their primary livery colour is blue because there is going to be a lot of blue flags waved around them.
And now there's no-one left who could save the team.

muckwarrior · 07-03-2019 12:00PM

It's not often I agree with what Hamilton says, but he's spot on here https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/141914/hamilton-critical-of-reduced-free-tv-presence

El_Duderino 09 · 07-03-2019 12:53PM

Completely agree. F1 is the cutting edge of technology and it would naturally appeal to younger people who are probably more likely to care about the future and green technologies. But it's focused on the older market and people who can afford sky spirts f1.

I started watching in 1997/8 because the lads were all talking about it in school on Monday morning. They watched it because it was on RTE and ITV and I watched it because it was popular and easy to watch, and easy to find people to chat about it.

Now it's not popular, not easy to watch and not easy to find people to chat with.

Do the fans are getting older and want less change and tend to prefer the good old days and the sport is on a path that would appeal to younger people who aren't exposed to it.

Anjobe · 07-03-2019 02:06PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Completely agree. F1 is the cutting edge of technology and it would naturally appeal to younger people who are probably more likely to care about the future and green technologies. But it's focused on the older market and people who can afford sky spirts f1.

I started watching in 1997/8 because the lads were all talking about it in school on Monday morning. They watched it because it was on RTE and ITV and I watched it because it was popular and easy to watch, and easy to find people to chat about it.

Now it's not popular, not easy to watch and not easy to find people to chat with.

Do the fans are getting older and want less change and tend to prefer the good old days and the sport is on a path that would appeal to younger people who aren't exposed to it.

The Sky deal was done under the CVC/Bernie Ecclestone regime, who were definitely all about the short term revenue streams. Liberty Media haven't done much to improve F1 yet but hopefully they have a bit more long term vision than Bernie & CVC.

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 07-03-2019 02:46PM

Liberty have already confirmed that the deal Sky got from Bernie (Exclusivity) won't be renewed when it ends in 2024. I fear the damage will have already been well and truly done before that though

AMKC · 07-03-2019 05:53PM

Peyton Lively Tiller wrote: »

Liberty have already confirmed that the deal Sky got from Bernie (Exclusivity) won't be renewed when it ends in 2024. I fear the damage will have already been well and truly done before that though

Same here. It might be too little too late. Is there no clause in the deal that if Sky can't keep the viewing numbers at a certain level maybe or get it up that it can be cancelled? I wonder have Liberty gone all over the deal to see is there anyway to get out of it. Maybe if viewing figures get really bad the teams will get worried about it to and also look for Sky to drop the deal. We can hope.

Harika · 07-03-2019 07:30PM

AMKC wrote: »

Peyton Lively Tiller wrote: »

Liberty have already confirmed that the deal Sky got from Bernie (Exclusivity) won't be renewed when it ends in 2024. I fear the damage will have already been well and truly done before that though

Same here. It might be too little too late. Is there no clause in the deal that if Sky can't keep the viewing numbers at a certain level maybe or get it up that it can be cancelled? I wonder have Liberty gone all over the deal to see is there anyway to get out of it. Maybe if viewing figures get really bad the teams will get worried about it to and also look for Sky to drop the deal. We can hope.

Unfortunately the deal is not linked to viewers but annual fees that increasing annually, as long as SkySportsF1 deems that acceptable there is no leverage. The best outcome for us would be that sky allows the official F1 online service to be released in the UK and Ireland. Won't happen as long as now TV is here.

AMKC · 07-03-2019 08:29PM

Harika wrote: »

Unfortunately the deal is not linked to viewers but annual fees that increasing annually, as long as SkySportsF1 deems that acceptable there is no leverage. The best outcome for us would be that sky allows the official F1 online service to be released in the UK and Ireland. Won't happen as long as now TV is here.

How and Why would Now TV stop it from happening here?

dublinman1990 · 08-03-2019 12:31AM

Lewis Hamilton has made a lot of sense here about the new TV rights deal with Sky. If new young fans want to watch all of the 21 races of the sport live on TV in the UK & Ireland; they now have to contend by getting a Sky subscription in which for many of those fans are now potentially out of their reach. I'm a young fan in my late 20's which is in that same position right now as many others who cannot afford or cannot bear having the Sky subscription at all. I have Channel 4 HD for the current highlights & British Grand Prix which is fine. I would rather have it back at the old arrangement with the 10 live races and the rest of them being available on a highlights package on a new extended rights deal with Channel 4 lasting 5 years. But I know that will never happen because, as ourselves have been hearing for the past few years, this new current deal with Sky has a lot of limitations attached to it. I cannot see it getting scrapped in the short to medium term.

ppn · 08-03-2019 02:11AM

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Lewis Hamilton has made a lot of sense here about the new TV rights deal with Sky. If new young fans want to watch all of the 21 races of the sport live on TV in the UK & Ireland; they now have to contend by getting a Sky subscription in which for many of those fans are now potentially out of their reach. I'm a young fan in my late 20's which is in that same position right now as many others who cannot afford or cannot bear having the Sky subscription at all. I have Channel 4 HD for the current highlights & British Grand Prix which is fine. I would rather have it back at the old arrangement with the 10 live races and the rest of them being available on a highlights package on a new extended rights deal with Channel 4 lasting 5 years. But I know that will never happen because, as ourselves have been hearing for the past few years, this new current deal with Sky has a lot of limitations attached to it. I cannot see it getting scrapped in the short to medium term.

Who knows but by the time that Sky deal and exclusivity ends, which Liberty has said it will not allow to happen again, the next generation will be totally immersed in that dreadful Formula E. IMO I don't think FE will ever be a replacement for F1, for the purist anyway. If people complain about the noise of F1 cars now, which is still impressive, what will they say if/when FE takes over from F1. This Sky thing is a huge blow for future F1 support. Hopefully its not the beginning of the end. Its sickening, who can justify €210 for 21 races or whatever the special deal is (>€150?) on top of their existing tv package...

El_Duderino 09 · 08-03-2019 08:43AM

AMKC wrote: »

Same here. It might be too little too late. Is there no clause in the deal that if Sky can't keep the viewing numbers at a certain level maybe or get it up that it can be cancelled? I wonder have Liberty gone all over the deal to see is there anyway to get out of it. Maybe if viewing figures get really bad the teams will get worried about it to and also look for Sky to drop the deal. We can hope.

I doubt they're as worried as we are. China and America are the biggest car markets. That's where the manufacturers want to be seen.

Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

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