Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

recyclebin

TCP/IP wrote: »

McLaren will go the way of Williams in the future through terrible leadership will sit in the midfield for some years then become an irrelevant team like Williams. Christ this year they don’t even have a world champion in the team for god only knows how long.

A lot of McLaren hate on the forum today. I don't think they will be too bad this year. The worst looks to be over.

Charlie-Bravo

I wouldn't mind McLaren doing well. Just not better than Renault.

Ok, just seeing if Instagram posts work on here like Twitter links...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BueSbIWoTzd/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=nqpwjd47ppn4

Edit: ok, maybe not.

TCP/IP

recyclebin wrote: »

A lot of McLaren hate on the forum today. I don't think they will be too bad this year. The worst looks to be over.

I personally just can’t warm to them as a racing team or as an automotive brand. To sterile and cold and to round it off that muppet Zalando Brown.

mickdw

I like McLaren. I liked Ron Dennis. Everyone seems to hate Ron but when you listen to some of the main guys who worked under him in early years and right to the end, it appears he is as straight as they come. Wants dedication but gave it everything himself too. He built that entire business which is a serious achievement. Lots of stories of Ron helping out staff financially when in trouble too.
I also liked Martin whitmarsh but Bouillier was a clown and the yank is a joke too.
Hoping they are rebuilding now.

pjohnson

Has Brown not gone upstairs with Gil de Ferran taking over the F1 team?

pjohnson

Williams mirror design and front suspension have apparently been rejected by the FIA so still need more design work in the next 13 days

TCP/IP

pjohnson wrote: »

Williams mirror design and front suspension have apparently been rejected by the FIA so still need more design work in the next 13 days

What a joke heads need to roll

mickdw

I wouldn't have that opinion. If you are not pushing the boundaries, you are doing it wrong. For all we know, they found some new trick suspension late and that was why they didn't make test days 1 & 2.

TCP/IP

mickdw wrote: »

I wouldn't have that opinion. If you are not pushing the boundaries, you are doing it wrong. For all we know, they found some new trick suspension late and that was why they didn't make test days 1 & 2.

We all know that is not true all Williams have found is how to come last again this Season.

mickdw

Fair enough but I doubt they managed to produce something ordinary that wouldnt meets the regs. There must have been a gain in it.

Charlie-Bravo

I was trying to look at some pics of testing to see what the mirrors were like. They are definitely out wider over the side pods, and angled to deflect air outwards. Bit of a novel design slightly outside the box! Shame really if it gave them some advantage.

TCP/IP

I just watched the Williams documentary again today.
Putting Claire in charge of such a team was a stupid idea should have appointed someone with experience.

ppn

TCP/IP wrote: »

I just watched the Williams documentary again today.
Putting Claire in charge of such a team was a stupid idea should have appointed someone with experience.

I've had that same feeling for a while now. Just don't think she's up to the job, not that her brother Jonathan would have been either mind. Doesn't seem she even wanted the job either though to be fair. Interesting documentary.

El_Duderino 09

TCP/IP wrote: »

I just watched the Williams documentary again today.
Putting Claire in charge of such a team was a stupid idea should have appointed someone with experience.

I like her and she comes across as a good business person, great daughter to Frank and decent woman. But I think she's out of her depth.

I bet the team is sold within 2 seasons of Frank dieing.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Ken Tyrrell sold his team to BAT ahead of the 1998 season, 3 years before his passing.

Williams are already gone as far if not further than Tyrrell in terms of decline.

Williams only saving grace is points are now down to 10th rather than 6th in 1998.

Can’t remember the results from last year bar Monza and the solitary point Sirotkin got due to Grosjean’s disqualification.

In all likelihood Crashtor Maldonado will go down as the last man to take a Williams victory.

TCP/IP

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I like her and she comes across as a good business person, great daughter to Frank and decent woman. But I think she's out of her depth.

I bet the team is sold within 2 seasons of Frank dieing.

I totally agree that she is Williams through and through and comes across as a really nice lady but to run the team I think not.

Nic_Col

Strange seeing Williams where they are, got an awful lot of stick last season for picking Sirotkin over Kubica but I'd rather a team take on pay drivers if it means they can survive financially.

Looked like they were coming good at the start of the hybrid era but their points total over the last 5 seasons says it all; 320, 257, 138, 83, 7. A consistent decline. Which coincides with Claire Williams's tenure in charge unfortunately.

It's a pity the "power units" are so technologically complicated now, Honda's return will put prospective manufacturers off, it could take several years to get up to Merc/Ferrari levels. In 2000 BMW returned with Williams and straight out of the box had one of the fastest (though unreliable) engines. I know that was in development for a year before hand but back then there were pretty much no testing restrictions.

El_Duderino 09

Nic_Col wrote: »

It's a pity the "power units" are so technologically complicated now, Honda's return will put prospective manufacturers off, it could take several years to get up to Merc/Ferrari levels. In 2000 BMW returned with Williams and straight out of the box had one of the fastest (though unreliable) engines. I know that was in development for a year before hand but back then there were pretty much no testing restrictions.

The whole appeal to f1 is the fact that it's cutting edge technology. From its inception in the 50s and since the beginning of the motor car it was always pushing boundaries in technology.

If f1 isn't cutting edge technology (which will always be complicated because it's new) then what is it?

skipper_G

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The whole appeal to f1 is the fact that it's cutting edge technology. From its inception in the 50s and since the beginning of the motor car it was always pushing boundaries in technology.

If f1 isn't cutting edge technology (which will always be complicated because it's new) then what is it?

Agreed, the current generation of engines are the most technologically advanced in the sport's history. Even with all the restrictions outlined in the regs the manufacturers have managed to generate more than 1000HP from a 1.6! The engines operate at 50% thermal efficiency, which is utterly astonishing progress in 6 years of development. It took the automotive industry more than a century to get to 30%. It's a shame that the sport doesn't do enough to promote that.

Anyway, it's not more engine manufacturers the sport needs to worry about, it's finding a solution to the commercial regulations so we can have 10 financially healthy teams on the grid.

Edit: just catching up on the news and right on cue, F1 has announced two strategic priorities for 2019. One of which is greater publicity of the technical achievements of the engines
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-outlines-strategic-priorities-2019/4347446/

Nic_Col

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The whole appeal to f1 is the fact that it's cutting edge technology. From its inception in the 50s and since the beginning of the motor car it was always pushing boundaries in technology.

If f1 isn't cutting edge technology (which will always be complicated because it's new) then what is it?

Kind of missing the point though, it's all well and good being cutting edge but it's fair to question whether it's putting potential new or returning manufacturers off. There isn't exactly a queue of suppliers banging down the doors to come in to the sport.

Honda's struggles may have spooked those outside the loop. Which restricts the ability of teams like Williams and McLaren to propose partnering with new suppliers who will prioritize and exclusively supply those teams. I doubt they'll ever win titles again without securing exclusive engine deals.

Frank Bullitt

I had a thought recently, that if car manufactures are going electric more and more, that FE would be more relevant to road going cars now...which means F1 can do what it wants and just throw in some V10's, sticky rubber and make it an over the top show.

Case closed.

Inviere

Gintonious wrote: »

I had a thought recently, that if car manufactures are going electric more and more, that FE would be more relevant to road going cars now...which means F1 can do what it wants and just throw in some V10's, sticky rubber and make it an over the top show.

Case closed.

It's been at this crossroad for ages now, either be relevant to the motor industry (which it's barely hanging onto being), or be a bespoke racing series. The problem is the latter means the likely loss of big name engine manufacturers like Ferrari & Merc as a big stonking V8/V10 won't be on their radar at all. It'd drastically change the identity of F1 really. On the other hand, to stay relevant, it'll need to embrace fully electric PU's at some stage. To do that, F-E would nearly need to be bought out and merged into F1, retaining the F1 name. Can't see that happening either any time soon...

El_Duderino 09

Gintonious wrote: »

I had a thought recently, that if car manufactures are going electric more and more, that FE would be more relevant to road going cars now...which means F1 can do what it wants and just throw in some V10's, sticky rubber and make it an over the top show.

Case closed.

FE is 5 years old. Bit harsh to judge how well the technology is being a dapten and applied to Road cars. I'd say some of it might be beginning to filter through to Road cars but I would expect that to be a much longer term and gradual trickle of technology from racing cars to Road cars.

But the point stands. If F1 wants toobe away from relevant e it could become like the Red Bull x races. Lots of fun but totally inconsequential.

To be fair the world is moving away from internal combustion engines. So f1's time as the cutting edge in technology is probably limited anyway.

Frank Bullitt

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

FE is 5 years old. Bit harsh to judge how well the technology is being a dapten and applied to Road cars. I'd say some of it might be beginning to filter through to Road cars but I would expect that to be a much longer term and gradual trickle of technology from racing cars to Road cars.

But the point stands. If F1 wants toobe away from relevant e it could become like the Red Bull x races. Lots of fun but totally inconsequential.

To be fair the world is moving away from internal combustion engines. So f1's time as the cutting edge in technology is probably limited anyway.

When I saw that FE is more relevant, I mean more so in the manner that more and more manufacturers are going electric, Tesla, Volvo, Porsche, Dyson, Nissan etc

El_Duderino 09

Gintonious wrote: »

When I saw that FE is more relevant, I mean more so in the manner that more and more manufacturers are going electric, Tesla, Volvo, Porsche, Dyson, Nissan etc

True enough. FE technology is the future, that's for sure. It must me so much easier to make the case for investing in FE than F1 right now.

I'm making plans to go to the FE race in London next year and it was only announced today! FE is smaller and newer than f1 but it has the wind at its back.

Who knows what things will look like in 10 years time. Id be surprised if they aren't thinking about plans to merge FE and F1.

Frank Bullitt

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-motor-f1-ferrari/ferrari-to-drop-mission-winnow-branding-at-australian-gp-idUKKCN1QM28Y

Ferrari are to drop the Mission Winnow branding from their cars for the opening race.

AMKC

Gintonious wrote: »

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-motor-f1-ferrari/ferrari-to-drop-mission-winnow-branding-at-australian-gp-idUKKCN1QM28Y

Ferrari are to drop the Mission Winnow branding from their cars for the opening race.

Why?

Also anyone got anything more on the Williams wing mirrors and suspension and the reason why the FIA banned them from using them.

skipper_G

AMKC wrote: »

Why?

Also anyone got anything more on the Williams wing mirrors and suspension and the reason why the FIA banned them from using them.

The Aussie's were investigating the legality of the branding and if it might breach their laws on tobacco advertising.

There might be something on the F1 website about the Williams rules clarification

afatbollix

Anyone get the feeling when a team is not 100% focused on F1 they drop down the order?

Williams opened a huge new factory recently to make carbon fiber parts for things like 1st class airline seats.

and Mclaren has opened the road going car factory.


Even if they moved a couple of good people across to the commercial side they prob lost a huge amount of experience to the F1 team.


That or the $100 million fine to Mclaren was the problem.

mickdw

To be fair, Williams have branched out and perhaps that is their saviour right now.
A business that is a struggling f1 team will fold whereas a group that has a struggling f1 team might survive.

McLaren are too strong to stay at the back. They still have the ability to fund huge numbers of staff, still have the deep pockets and the name to attract top drivers.
I don't think this years car is going to be so bad and if Renault give them a fair package, they might go well.