Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

Twenty Grand · 13-01-2019 01:04PM

Mad_maxx wrote: »

It's lower everywhere bar the all important south east area, London is considerably more expensive than Dublin

Nope. Dublin is more expensive.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/dublin-ranked-more-expensive-than-london-832584.html

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/property-prices-renting-dublin-london-12199920

markodaly · 13-01-2019 01:24PM

evolving_doors wrote: »

Oh the inhumanity of it all, some group in the public service earning more than another group.
BTW nurses get paid during training 70% of starting salary in year 4. Then pretty much garunteed permanent full time job at the start (good for a mortgage... if outside major cities).Meanwhile a trainee teacher will be coughing up 12k for a 2 year course on top of a degree... and then goid chance of having to do the rounds on part time sub work for a number of years.
So it's apples and oranges.
Each case on its on merits seems fair to me.
Unless of course you're going down the route of PUBLIC SERVICE CAUSED THE LAST RECESSION spin.

No problem for the ministers breaking the public service agreement to pay their advisors over the cap!

You can spin it whatever way you want but massive government spending incl benchmarking contributed massively to the back hole in our finances after the crash, which caused the Trokia to be called in, which prolonged the crash.

Singular blame, no of course not absolutely a contributory factor.

zell12 · 13-01-2019 02:11PM

DailyMail - I's only gets me €560pw
Fornightly payslip posted by nurse
8441750-6585007-Her_reveal_comes_as_37_000_Irish_nurses_are_set_to_strike_on_Jan-a-16_1547369704228.jpg

8441750-6585007-Her_reveal_comes_as_37_000_Irish_nurses_are_set_to_strike_on_Jan-a-16_1547369704228.jpg

evolving_doors · 13-01-2019 02:28PM

markodaly wrote: »

You can spin it whatever way you want but massive government spending incl benchmarking contributed massively to the back hole in our finances after the crash, which caused the Trokia to be called in, which prolonged the crash.

Singular blame, no of course not absolutely a contributory factor.

So what's to do to keep nurses in Ireland? Maybe keeping them in areas close to the rent pressure zones with a 'city allowance' which wouldn't be paid to say a nurse in longford where rent/mortgage is cheep. Would you be in favour of that?

Shefwedfan · 13-01-2019 02:30PM

Tell me how wrote: »

A decent person most certainly will speak about wages when they are the head of a union which has just voted to go on strike because of wages. That's her job, that's why she is on the radio to discuss.

I agree on train drivers but that isn't what this thread is about.

The 47k you mention, does that include allowances they will get for the qualifications and allowances for positions they will likely be in as a result of their qualifications?

As I said google...everyone here it great at throwing numbers around, before throwing them out why don’t you actually check....

The pay of nurses is laid out, plain and simple.

Even more alarming if you only do a single degree it is far less than that. That’s still a degree which a lot of people in Ireland in the public and private sector never got or never will get

Goldengirl · 13-01-2019 03:16PM

Dia1988 wrote: »

Cop on girl, read back over the thread and you'll see the majority say that nurses pay is enough . What they will add is that the conditions should be better.

Go back watching Eastenders

Haha, you go back to reading people's profiles! If you read the thread instead....

Shefwedfan · 13-01-2019 03:19PM

markodaly wrote: »

You can spin it whatever way you want but massive government spending incl benchmarking contributed massively to the back hole in our finances after the crash, which caused the Trokia to be called in, which prolonged the crash.

Singular blame, no of course not absolutely a contributory factor.

What a load of rubbish

How people come up with this rubbish is beyond me....

Goldengirl · 13-01-2019 03:29PM

Dia1988 wrote: »

Oh dear love, London is not a country!

London is more expensive than Dublin.

Perhaps nurses working and living in Dublin should get an allowance for living in an expensive city. That's what happens in the UK.

We should cut the numbers of nurses being trained in Ireland and focus on recruiting Asian nurses who'll appreciate the pay and will work better than the Irish without the moaning.

Play their bluff I say!

Off you go .. racism now too. from you ...most of the nurses I know from other countries are as involved in this as Irish nurses. However I don't dissect my colleagues into different cohorts according to where they are from, and attribute them with a label , as you and another troll here have done .

And by the way , nurses in London get paid extra on top of general salary, called a London weighting, that is correct , something that should be introduced here for a lot of low to medium wage workers in Dublin.

Goldengirl · 13-01-2019 03:44PM

cute geoge wrote: »

Nurses stop the doctors from killing????
In fairness nurses do a damn great job but do not have the responsibility of what drugs or actions to use in keeping anyone alive .A nurse can only do what their superior doctor prescribes .The buck stops with the doctor .I have never heard of nurses being sued in a negligence case

You answered your question there I think! ðŸ€£

Not going to dob in doctors here they do a very difficult job under difficult circumstances too.

Any doctor in a new area will defer to the senior nurses, who may not know how to perform all the things the doctor has to do in his career but will know their own field and the correct doses , side effects etc of any drug . It is their professional responsibility, as they are accountable if they injure a patient and can be struck off too.
Nurses can, and do refuse to give what they think are ill prescribed or dangerous medications, all the time. No matter who prescribes them. I have seen consultants being handed the vials and syringes to give a prescription that wasn't considered safe by senior nursing staff, and consultants changing doses , or having to give it themselves. .
Don't kid yourself.
If nurses were to do a full strike , like the guards did , the risks to patients would be too great. I don't think any nurse would do that for more money . That is what the government rely on , that moral conscience.

alexmalalex · 13-01-2019 04:32PM

Actually, thinking about it, I don't think that a strike will have as much of an adverse effect on the health system as it would at other times of the year. The main implication would be the cancellation of elective surgery, most of which is usually cancelled anyway in Jan and Feb due to lack of bed capacity. A nurses stroke in March or April would be far more adverse, because that is when I would imagine theatres are playing catch up on their lists.

As bad as a strike might be, the far greater cost would be if nurses were to adhere strictly to their job description, and not go above and beyond that that entails. Let's face it, if nurses today did only what their job description entailed, our health system would be a basket case, and 10x worse than it is. For the system to work as efficiently as it does, nurses go above and beyond what they are paid to do. If nurses stop doing this, then we are all in trouble.

Tell me how · 13-01-2019 04:43PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

As I said google...everyone here it great at throwing numbers around, before throwing them out why don’t you actually check....

The pay of nurses is laid out, plain and simple.

Even more alarming if you only do a single degree it is far less than that. That’s still a degree which a lot of people in Ireland in the public and private sector never got or never will get

I trust the secretary of the INMO to call out false figures when they are directly put to her more than I trust Google.

She didn't, nor did other proponents for a nurses pay rise, therefore I have to believe they are correct.

Goldengirl · 13-01-2019 04:44PM

road_high wrote: »

Find nurses and their media conduct absolutely draining to listen to. They all go on with the same Mother Theresa act- “underpaid and over worked”- seems the actual stats tell quite a different story.
If they all hate their jobs so much, why don’t go they go do something else? End quote ]
That's what all the newly trained nurses ARE doing, that's the problem!!!

[ quote = Even better still do not sign up to it in the first place.
Not one of them ever seems to have a solution to the various A&E crises etc- that’s what most of us in our professions do, see challenges and come up with ideas to solve them.
But with nurses it’s always someone’s fault or issue to deal with. They’re a perfect example of when you get too many females working in one area, very little gets achieved apart from becoming eternal martyrs and whining.
For the amount we spend on healthcare salaries, serious analysis needs to be undertaken on value for money and what many of them are actually doing.

Ignorant and misogynistic ramblings.
What nurses do and improvement in work practices has been examined and found that , these work practices are saving money for the HSE, including the practice of not paying nurses for the extra 1.5 hours added to their working week, during the crash. "Serious analysis "needs to be done to determine where savings in HSE bosses and salaries can be made.

Goldengirl · 13-01-2019 05:00PM

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Average staff nurse pay in Ireland is €57k as referenced in a Dail committee in the last few weeks. This includes premium payments which add - according to the unions themselves - approx 25% to the salary of the average nurse. The number of nurses (if any) on the 'plain' scale with no extras is tiny. I always find it amusing that people contort themselves to deny the simple truth that nurses in Ireland are paid very well. Or do they think that the Dept of Health are lying?

They work 13 hour shifts because they want to - guaranteed premium payments, plus 3 or 4 days a week off. If I could work 3 x 13 hour days rather than 5 x 8, I'd jump at the chance.

Very disingenuous to say this! Why do you think that a Dail committee would try to give accurate figures on this ?
Nurse's pay is as stated from 24 to 45 k. Anything extra is for agreed night duty or weekend antisocial hours , and yes , if you work those type of hours continually you will get extra money, as deserved. In most cases depending on where they work this is not their choice to make and it is a case that they just have to do it as part of the job.
I think as explained before an average is dependant on who you are including to make up the average. You would get an pretty amazing result on doctor's pay if you included all the consultants pay with more junior doctors...very misleading .
A lot of nurses staffing Monday to Friday nursing jobs, with extra courses and qualifications, might get paid for one of these as a qualification allowance if deemed to be working in that area. However in reality , many others while obviously using these extra qualifications in their daily work, and experience, do not get paid for them.
I know engineers and other professionals in the public service, get paid extra for every qualification, not nurses.

alexmalalex · 13-01-2019 05:09PM

road_high wrote: »

Find nurses and their media conduct absolutely draining to listen to. They all go on with the same Mother Theresa act- “underpaid and over worked”- seems the actual stats tell quite a different story.
If they all hate their jobs so much, why don’t go they go do something else? Even better still do not sign up to it in the first place.
Not one of them ever seems to have a solution to the various A&E crises etc- that’s what most of us in our professions do, see challenges and come up with ideas to solve them.
But with nurses it’s always someone’s fault or issue to deal with. They’re a perfect example of when you get too many females working in one area, very little gets achieved apart from becoming eternal martyrs and whining.
For the amount we spend on healthcare salaries, serious analysis needs to be undertaken on value for money and what many of them are actually doing.

Now, listen your post is clearly sexist and inflammatory. And while FG voters would like nurses and all public sector workers to be paid minimum wage to fund their extravagant lifestyle, it ain't gonna happen.

Nurses will get their money, and yeahhh its gonna cost you ... but you still have the 4-bedroom semi-detached in the leafy suburbs, the his and hers BMWs and fiat for the brat, the three weeks in the sun, the fake tan, the winter ski trips, the city breaks, M&S full trolley, the theatre nights, the bottle of wine every night, the golf club membership for him, the tennis club membership for her, the private school for the brat, the private tutorising on top of the private school, the stock portfolio, the pension fund, the gourmet coffee, the the gourmet coffee maker (that you never use), the American fridge freezer, the nutri blend, the numerous subscriptions, etc. etc.... you just might have to cut back on that one skinny latte a day... or Priscilla might have to get the bus once in a while....

Tell me how · 13-01-2019 05:17PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

Very disingenuous to say this! Why do you think that a Dail committee would try to give accurate figures on this ?
Nurse's pay is as stated from 24 to 45 k. Anything extra is for agreed night duty or weekend antisocial hours , and yes , if you work those type of hours continually you will get extra money, as deserved. In most cases depending on where they work this is not their choice to make and it is a case that they just have to do it as part of the job.
I think as explained before an average is dependant on who you are including to make up the average. You would get an pretty amazing result on doctor's pay if you included all the consultants pay with more junior doctors...very misleading .
A lot of nurses staffing Monday to Friday nursing jobs, with extra courses and qualifications, might get paid for one of these as a qualification allowance if deemed to be working in that area. However in reality , many others while obviously using these extra qualifications in their daily work, and experience, do not get paid for them.
I know engineers and other professionals in the public service, get paid extra for every qualification, not nurses.

Why would the secretary of the INMO not dispute the 57K figure when it was put to her directly?

Twenty Grand · 13-01-2019 05:25PM

Tell me how wrote: »

Why would the secretary of the INMO not dispute the 57K figure when it was put to her directly?

You'd have to put it to her, but it's been debunked several times on this thread by nurses near the top of their scales posting payslips, articles in the paper, and by the salary scales themselves.

It seems the only people earning that kind of money are directors and tutors. Even the nursing managers aren't on that as a basic wage. I know there's allowances on top, but again it's been show here that not all nurses are eligible for allowances.

EDIT: Link here if you're interested: https://www.inmo.ie/Salary_Information

alexmalalex · 13-01-2019 05:30PM

markodaly wrote: »

You can spin it whatever way you want but massive government spending incl benchmarking contributed massively to the back hole in our finances after the crash, which caused the Trokia to be called in, which prolonged the crash.

Singular blame, no of course not absolutely a contributory factor.

Why do you folks always point to the public sector pay increases during this period versus the excessive tax cuts?

You were not belly aching about tax cuts then...and I suspect you won't now.

Nobody disputes bench marking was a crazy idea, but folks on your side of the argument never mention all the tax cuts + the huge bonuses enjoyed by the private sector. Public sector workers on the average wage couldn;t afford a house in the Celtic tiger, and they sure as hell can't afford one now.

Goldengirl · 13-01-2019 05:34PM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Her gross figure is what, though ?

After twenty years a nurse with two recognised full qualifications eg General, or Pschiatric or Paediatrics, can get paid €48, 982, as of Jan 18 .
That's about 2 k more than a nurse with one qualification.
Who, hoo, gravy train??
No ordinary nurses getting sums you lot are talking about.

alexmalalex · 13-01-2019 05:35PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

After twenty years a nurse with two recognised full qualifications eg General, or Pschiatric or Paediatrics, can get paid €48, 982, as of Jan 18 .
That's about 2 k more than a nurse with one qualification.
Who, hoo, gravy train??
No ordinary nurses getting sums you lot are talking about.

Golden, are you serious? That's the max end of the scale? Wow

These FG bean counters know the cost of everything but the value of nothing

cute geoge · 13-01-2019 05:39PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

After twenty years a nurse with two recognised full qualifications eg General, or Pschiatric or Paediatrics, can get paid €48, 982, as of Jan 18 .
That's about 2 k more than a nurse with one qualification.
Who, hoo, gravy train??
No ordinary nurses getting sums you lot are talking about.

Is that the standard pay for a 9 -5 week ,how many hours per week?
Is pension contribution subtracted from figure above ?

Tell me how · 13-01-2019 05:41PM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

You'd have to put it to her, but it's been debunked several times on this thread by nurses near the top of their scales posting payslips, articles in the paper, and by the salary scales themselves.

It seems the only people earning that kind of money are directors and tutors. Even the nursing managers aren't on that as a basic wage. I know there's allowances on top, but again it's been show here that not all nurses are eligible for allowances.

EDIT: Link here if you're interested: https://www.inmo.ie/Salary_Information

SMH
It was put to her. Ivan Yates show on Tuesday evening last.
She didn't debunk it.
I'm paying more attention to that than an anonymous discussion board.

Goldengirl · 13-01-2019 05:42PM

Tell me how wrote: »

Why would the secretary of the INMO not dispute the 57K figure when it was put to her directly?

Because everyone knows they are twisting figures with a ridiculous sum like that!
Every family has a nurse , including his! I hope his mammy makes him wash his mouth out with soap for the bold lies he is telling

Charles Babbage · 13-01-2019 05:43PM

hmmm wrote: »

No, because next we'll have the teachers, then the doctors, then the consultants, then the revenue staff, then the ESB, etc etc. Before you know it we'll have benchmarking mark 2.

The public and civil service already earns far more than the private sector, and we pay enough tax as it is.

Do they earn more? Do doctors or consultants earn more than in the private sector? Do financial experts working for the revenue earn more than if they were in he private sector advising people on tax evasion? The ESB is not part of the public or civil service.

Any discussion of the PS in Ireland is like Brexit in England, those ranting see no need to use actual facts.

Goldengirl · 13-01-2019 05:45PM

cute geoge wrote: »

Is that the standard pay for a 9 -5 week ,how many hours per week?
Is pension contribution subtracted from figure above ?

No. That is for 39.5 hours per week, if you are credited with a dual qualification, and have given 20 years service...oh and your pension does come out of this.

TheRiverman · 13-01-2019 05:50PM

I believe one nurse to eight to ten patients and sometimes more is now a daily feature of life on hospital wards.How can proper care be given to patients with a ratio like that ?.Understaffing at frontline level is a huge problem.
I wonder how many people criticising nurses on this thread have ever been a public patient on a public ward in any of our hospitals ?.

Twenty Grand · 13-01-2019 05:54PM

Tell me how wrote: »

SMH
It was put to her. Ivan Yates show on Tuesday evening last.
She didn't debunk it.
I'm paying more attention to that than an anonymous discussion board.

I'm paying more attention to the actual salary scales listed on the INMO website, and the huge outcry from nurses disputing that claim.
I didn't hear the Ivan Yates interview, if you can link it I'd have a listen.

Of course none of this relates to the real question here of "How do we fill the huge number of vacancies that are the root of so many problems nurses have right now?"

hawkelady · 13-01-2019 05:59PM

Tell me how wrote: »

SMH
It was put to her. Ivan Yates show on Tuesday evening last.
She didn't debunk it.
I'm paying more attention to that than an anonymous discussion board.

Read what you type again ! Are you serious with regards one bloody radio slot piece ? Maybe Phil wanted to read from a script , maybe she didn’t want to take up her 4 mins segueing with that ape Yates , cause she knew that’s exactly what he would have wanted. You’re basing nurses earn 57k due to the face someone didn’t say they weren’t ??? You can do better that that as its a pathetic way to reach a conclusion

Shefwedfan · 13-01-2019 06:22PM

Mad_maxx wrote: »

If nurses were on 150 k and looking for 250, most would instinctively support them.

People can't accept that nurses are well paid, that should be the base point, they already are!

Paying them more won't fix overcrowding, I understand conditions are unfavorable but how come workers only ever call for more money as a fix, could it be that it's patients who most suffer from these sub standard conditions?

No idea what your point is, nurses are underpaid....trying to say people will always support nurses no matter what they ask for is completely untrue

You seem to have some issue with nurses, no idea why? Problem with educated people?

Martina1991 · 13-01-2019 06:43PM

Goldengirl wrote:

After twenty years a nurse with two recognised full qualifications eg General, or Pschiatric or Paediatrics, can get paid â‚¬48, 982, as of Jan 18 . That's about 2 k more than a nurse with one qualification.

Out of interest what are these extra qualifications nurses can earn extra for? Is it a masters, or separate extra certs for different nursing disciplines?

RoseHayes · 13-01-2019 06:46PM

Mad_maxx wrote: »

If nurses were on 150 k and looking for 250, most would instinctively support them.

People can't accept that nurses are well paid, that should be the base point, they already are!

Paying them more won't fix overcrowding, I understand conditions are unfavorable but how come workers only ever call for more money as a fix, could it be that it's patients who most suffer from these sub standard conditions?

You make a very good point.

Fix the overcrowding first, they get paid enough for what they do.

Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

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