Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

hawkelady

As the title suggests ... do you think the government will give what the inmo is asking for ? The way pascal and Harris is talking it looks like it’s going to be a long drawn out process. Who will buckle first. Btw, I do hope the nurses get what they want and they do a great job.

backspin.

I think they are paid reasonably well as it is. There is a pay agreement in place at the moment anyway.

gctest50

Deserve a shotgun blast in the face if someone dies over this

welltodo

hawkelady wrote: »

As the title suggests ... do you think the government will give what the inmo is asking for ? The way pascal and Harris is talking it looks like it’s going to be a long drawn out process. Who will buckle first. Btw, I do hope the nurses get what they want and they do a great job.

hopefully

but the way varadker is i'd say he'll cut their pay so they have to go to australia and then he'll bring in his own kind

Ipso

welltodo wrote: »

hopefully

but the way varadker is i'd say he'll cut their pay so they have to go to australia and then he'll bring in his own kind

How much extra tax are you willing to pay for their rise?

gctest50

welltodo wrote: »

hopefully

but the way varadker is i'd say he'll cut their pay so they have to go to australia and then he'll bring in his own kind

his own kind ? , people that get stuff done like ?


or was it just a bit of the racism from a 10 post wonder ?

Wheeliebin30

They want more money yet they are giving out about conditions and worried about patients safety?

Which is it, surely they should want the extra money spent on recruitment if they are giving out about staff shortages?

More union greed, where will it end?

Another bankrupt country in a few years.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

welltodo wrote: »

he'll bring in his own kind

Male, Irish born, doctors?


Or is there a badly veiled racist comment in here? If so, man up and state it clearly.

Odelay

They have a 6% turnover of staff, not exactly a sign of serious staffing problems. I think this is being over hyped in the media.

Alrigghtythen

I think they are adequately paid.

n97 mini

They will. When it's the PS vs the govt the PS always wins. They might not get all they are looking for, but they get more than they currently have.

I've several friends and relations working in the health service (and wider PS) and the common issue that's cited is part-time working. Since it was introduced in the PS is has made rostering in some areas very difficult. The health service seems to be the most impacted of all areas.

enricoh

Odelay wrote: »

They have a 6% turnover of staff, not exactly a sign of serious staffing problems. I think this is being over hyped in the media.

6%, if thats right its a non issue.
The moneys better in dubai n we're supposed to match it. Eh, no.
Was reading an article on a teacher the other day, aged 30 on 47k. With the airtime they get on rte u'd think they were on half that!

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/money-spending-diary-ireland-2-4404095-Jan2019/

Mad_maxx

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

I think they are adequately paid.

Nurses could demand 150 k per annum and most would support them, we adore nurses in Ireland

Deise Vu

Of course they will get it. The irony is that after getting it, if Leo calls an election in the Autumn they will be out again.

The budget plus income for the health service is €22bn, that’s €5k for every man, woman and child in the country. If nurses, by far the largest cohort in the health service are undermanned and under paid as claimed by their mouthpiece, where the fcuk is the money being spent?

Guy:Incognito

They should let them know the pay rates before they sign up to stop them becoming nurses and then not agreeing with the pay..........

TheRiverman

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

They want more money yet they are giving out about conditions and worried about patients safety?

Which is it, surely they should want the extra money spent on recruitment if they are giving out about staff shortages?

More union greed, where will it end?

Another bankrupt country in a few years.

Someday you might like to have nurses who are well paid and stress free if you are sick in hospital.I'm sure you would like to have the best possible care if you ever become a patient in a hospital ward.
The point they are making is under the current pay and working conditions it is extremely hard to recruit new graduates into the HSE,leaving all hospitals short staffed and creating stress and danger to existing staff and also to patients.Extra beds are needed in every hospital in the country,that means more staff.Then there is the appalling situation of the HSE spending millions on agency staff every year.I could go on.

gctest50

The Aras Attracta ones are suspended on full pay - how did they get away with that ?


They went very quiet about that


The HSE are spending € 43,000,000 on moving people out of places like aras attracta


€ 43,000,000 ? that's a lot of moving




How many more Bungalow 3's were there ?


Batter an elderly non-verbal autistic woman and get early retirement on full wages !

What a country !

Wheeliebin30

TheRiverman wrote: »

Someday you might like to have nurses who are well paid and stress free if you are sick in hospital.I'm sure you would like to have the best possible care if you ever become a patient in a hospital ward.
The point they are making is under the current pay and working conditions it is extremely hard to recruit new graduates into the HSE,leaving all hospitals short staffed and creating stress and danger to existing staff and also to patients.Extra beds are needed in every hospital in the country,that means more staff.Then there is the appalling situation of the HSE spending millions on agency staff every year.I could go on.

Why are they looking for more money so?

Do you think throwing money at them will make them work harder?

hmmm

No, because next we'll have the teachers, then the doctors, then the consultants, then the revenue staff, then the ESB, etc etc. Before you know it we'll have benchmarking mark 2.

The public and civil service already earns far more than the private sector, and we pay enough tax as it is.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

I think they are adequately paid.

Who are you to decide they're adequately paid??

The Rape of Lucretia

Odelay wrote: »

They have a 6% turnover of staff, not exactly a sign of serious staffing problems. I think this is being over hyped in the media.

If you have a union spinning a story for long enough, some people start to believe it unfortunately.

What's the standard working week for a nurse I hear you ask ?

Mad_maxx

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Who are you to decide they're adequately paid??

He's a tax payer

Mad_maxx

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

If you have a union spinning a story for long enough, some people start to believe it unfortunately.

What's the standard working week for a nurse I hear you ask ?

37 hours, average salary is 55k per annum not including overtime

touts

There is a good chance the Brexit Recession will make the banking collapse look like a small economic correction. If that happens public service pay cuts will be the order of the day not pay rises.

enricoh

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Who are you to decide they're adequately paid??

A 6% turnover in staff tells me more than an ingrid miley union love in exclusive!

Happy4all

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Who are you to decide they're adequately paid??

People are allowed have opinions.

Bubbaclaus

Unions have ruined this country. They used to serve a very necessary purpose, but these days its just constant calling of strikes in order to get paid more and more.

Bellerstring

They are fantastic, are angels, do an unbelievable job and are nowhere near paid enough

wat24

The average salary really are averages due to the high earners who are usually in management. I’m 6 years qualified and on 36,000. Most of the nurses working with me are on around the same. There’s far too many bed managers and nurse managers working admin roles that aren’t hands on frontline care. That’s where the money is going

thee glitz

Mad_maxx wrote: »

37 hours, average salary is 55k per annum not including overtime

Can you give a source please?

TheRiverman

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Why are they looking for more money so?

Do you think throwing money at them will make them work harder?

They cannot work any harder as the are stretched to the limits everyday.Unfortunately there is a lot of ignorance and lack of understanding by people of how difficult it can be for nurses and other medical professionals working in our hospitals at present.A great example of that was shown by our Taoiseach recently when he made his stupid statement about Christmas being the peak time in Hospitals and therefore no staff should be allowed annual leave at that time.Its peak time at all times of year in our hospitals.

Bubbaclaus

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

39 hours.

You'd think they work 168 hours with the way some of them go on.

wat24

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

39 hours.

And one of the main problems is being short staffed means the shift should be 07.30-20.30 but it’s very hard to get out on time because you have to finish patient care and the mountains of documentation there is. If some gets sick at 20.30 you have to stay and help get them sorted because there isn’t enough night staff

Mutant z

When are nurses not looking for a pay rise.

ethical

The frontline staff,nurses on the wards ,are dwindling by the month.
The money is wasted on so called "managers" who do sweet FA,and you know what, there are more and more of these wasters appearing in hospitals everyday and are eating up the HSE budget.Its time to sit down and take a long hard luck at the work load the frontline staff do and those that twiddle their thumbs in offices in the health service every day........AND GET PAID FOR IT!
FCUK THE LOT OF THEM OUT,pay the frontline staff and see how quickly we get back to a system that actually cares and caters for the patients.So called "managers" couldnt manage a piss up in a brewery.:mad:

TheRiverman

Mad_maxx wrote: »

37 hours, average salary is 55k per annum not including overtime

As I said in another post here the ignorance and lack of understanding by people on the outside who have never experienced working life inside a hospital.

lilblackdress

The reason that complaints of conditions are being tied into a pay rise is we cannot keep nursing staff in Ireland due to crap pay. Nurses go off elsewhere to earn more and cannot be blamed for that... that means less nurses which in turn means worse conditions and poorer care which leads to even less nurses.

In my opinion, people who think nurses don't deserve more either don't know how much they actually come out with a month for the work they put in or they have never had to sit and watch what a nurse actually has to do.... many people walk up to a nurses station and assume nurses are sitting doing nothing and unfortunately that is generally so far from the truth. The amount of documentation alone and lack of time to adequately fill it in is extremely difficult.

Nurses are the only healthcare professional that is present 24/7. (13 hour shifts, 7 night shifts in a row, 1 free day worked a month etc). Yes doctors are on call in acute hospitals and care assistants who are amazing are being pulled away from patient care to do other tasks... nurses are the ones that tie the rest of the healthcare teams plans together to make their own plans. A typical day for a nurse 15 years ago was filled moreso with patient care than what it is now..... now it's scrimping for staff, trying to manage everyone in an effective and safe way and watching your nursing pin as best you can knowing that any day you walk in you could lose it due to lack of patient safety because of staff shortages and an increase in documentation.

Morale is low, No matter what they do they can never do enough. Compassion fatigue is rife and nurses need a break and support from those they always strive to do their best for.... the public

A friend of mine earned more working in the canteen in one of the hospitals in Cork when she was training to be a Nurse, than in her first year as a qualified Nurse in the same hospital.

That pushed her to move to Australia..

Wheeliebin30

But surely they know the pay conditions before taking up nursing?

They should be forced to work a set number of years in Ireland if they do courses subsidized by the tax payer.

This idea of getting the degree here then moving to another country is bonkers.

Is they pay for it themselves then they can do what they want.

Lefty Bicek

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

But surely they know the pay conditions before taking up nursing?

They should be forced to work a set number of years in Ireland if they do courses subsidized by the tax payer.

This idea of getting the degree here then moving to another country is bonkers.

Is they pay for it themselves then they can do what they want.

As students, they subsidise the system by working their placements without pay.

Alrigghtythen

Move the training from the classroom back on to the wards, changing nursing to a 4 year degree was a mistake. In 2004 70% of nurses were emigrating.



https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/nursing-a-revolution-from-tlc-to-a-degree-1.278006?mode=amp

Since the mid-1990s, student nurses have followed a three-year diploma programme, linked to a college or university. They took social and biological science classes in college, but the rest of their time was spent on the wards. After they qualified, they could do a one-year, part-time course to get a degree. From next year, however, nursing will be a four-year degree programme. Admission will be through the Central Applications Office (CAO), as is the case with most other third-level courses....


"Nurse training is being turned on its head," says Seamus Cowman, professor of nursing in the Faculty of Nursing and Midwifery at the RCSI. "For the first time, nurses will be graduates and will have graduate status," he says. "We'll be the envy of Europe. This is a huge investment in nursing."

thomasdylan

I think if you compare nurses to other PS workers they are underpaid. They are paid less than primary teachers, physios, dietitians, OTs and I would guess their job is more demanding. There's also a massive shortage of nurses.

It's a very difficult job. It's physically demanding and there is risk of mistakes which can have massive consequences. People don't respect nurses qualifications and intelligence at all.

Richmond Ultra

TheRiverman wrote: »

They cannot work any harder as the are stretched to the limits everyday.Unfortunately there is a lot of ignorance and lack of understanding by people of how difficult it can be for nurses and other medical professionals working in our hospitals at present.A great example of that was shown by our Taoiseach recently when he made his stupid statement about Christmas being the peak time in Hospitals and therefore no staff should be allowed annual leave at that time.Its peak time at all times of year in our hospitals.

I know of two nurses in CUH who did all the Twitter posting of #imworkingleo etc and long Facebook rants. Only for the man to arrive in on Christmas Day and they queued to get a selfie and didn't say a word. Surely if it upset them so much they would have mentioned it.

Nurses will get a rise but if they do it will only open the floodgates.

twowheelsonly

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Unions have ruined this country. They used to serve a very necessary purpose, but these days its just constant calling of strikes in order to get paid more and more.

??????????
You should have been around in the 70s' and 80s'. Then you'd know about strikes!!

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

But surely they know the pay conditions before taking up nursing?

They should be forced to work a set number of years in Ireland if they do courses subsidized by the tax payer.

This idea of getting the degree here then moving to another country is bonkers.

Is they pay for it themselves then they can do what they want.

What about all our students that go to England and Scotland to study nursing and then return here? ( A fairly large proportion of them..)



The waste in the HSE is phenomenal. Quite apart from having too many non-medical staff or medical staff redeployed as Managers the waste on buildings, suppliers, agencies etc is phenomenal. A local one to me that recently popped up was the HSE Community Health Stores moving from Wilton, where they own the building, to Model Farm Road, where they're leasing a building. The original building is lying empty since. I'm sure everyone working within the HSE could point to a mulitude of examples. Cut all these and the Nurses could be comfortably paid more.

Have a read of this report on an HSE Audit from the Irish Examiner last year. Eye opening. Highlights would be paying an agency €14,000 for an on call consultant - for one week , external storage costs for Galway rising from €7k to €800k from 2008 to 2016 and a recruitment company paid €20k+ in Kerry for the appointment of a consultant - who was already an employee !! Plenty more there to to explain where the money is going but this is still only the tip of the iceberg.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/special-report-hse-audit-the-14k-a-week-consultant-and-the-missing-financial-records-472877.html

mad muffin

How much do you put on your life? Your family’s? Loved ones? You want the best healthcare and you want it now, but you don’t think you should pay too much for it?

How much is too much? €30K? €60K? €100K? How much did the politicians pay rise pay themselves recently because they think they are doing such a good job?

Was the pay restoration not promised to the nurses? Did they get it? Did the politicians get theirs?

How much of the current crisis in the health care is the governments fault? How much of it is down to the austerity measures implemented 10 years ago? The pay freeze. The levies and charged? The recruitment ban? All the money spent on agency nurses?

Do you want nurses to work 50? 60? Hours per week? Do you want to be treated by someone who’s worked that many hours in a high pressure situation when your life depends on it?

Do you even know what’s it like being in nurse in a hospital in Ireland?

If they do get their pay rise, they deserve every single cent of it.

It’s a pity they have to go on strike for it. What was promised to them. And frankly what they deserve.

Goldengirl

Deise Vu wrote: »

Of course they will get it. The irony is that after getting it, if Leo calls an election in the Autumn they will be out again.

The budget plus income for the health service is €22bn, that’s €5k for every man, woman and child in the country. If nurses, by far the largest cohort in the health service are undermanned and under paid as claimed by their mouthpiece, where the fcuk is the money being spent?

Consultants. And admin staff.

Twenty Grand

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

But surely they know the pay conditions before taking up nursing?

They should be forced to work a set number of years in Ireland if they do courses subsidized by the tax payer.

This idea of getting the degree here then moving to another country is bonkers.

Is they pay for it themselves then they can do what they want.

Nobody becomes a nurse for the money. They become nurses to help people.
But when you're working 13 hour days in overcrowded wards, with screaming children, injured and dying adults and deraganged and demented elderly, forced to work by yourself because the ward is only half staffed, forced to lift people you can't physically lift and working back to back day and night shifts, when people are screaming at you because they are forced to queue, abusing you because a family member is forced onto a trolloy, physically and sexually assaulting you because they're off their face on drink and drugs, maybe the thoughts that the canteen workers are earning more than you and the conditions are only getting worse would make you consider emigrating for a better life.


Near every single person will be in a hospital getting life saving care at some point in their life. When that time comes, you'll want your nurses to be rested and attentive and to be capable of giving the best of care.

trick

Mad_maxx wrote: »

37 hours, average salary is 55k per annum not including overtime

I’m laughing at this €55k per annum.
I’m a pre 2010 graduate and my salary won’t go higher than €47k. Also, just to add I’m very happy with my salary. However, I know it’s not the same for nurses who have qualified since 2010.
Please link your source re the €55k average!!

With regard to working hours.
The reality is that nurses are contracted to do specific hours but we end up doing more. I’m not complaining about that. It’s just the reality that the ordinary jo soap doesn’t understand.
For example you are contracted for a shift 07:30-20:30. You need to be on the ward for report from night staff at 7am. Also, like another poster said, you can’t just walk off the ward at 20:30. I have often left work at 21:00-21:30. That’s just the way it is. You’ll never get those hours back though..

Guffy

Nursing pay is an absolute disgrace.

I am not a nurse, have a distant friend who is a nurse but that's about it.

They get free 3rd level college granted, so does every other 3rd level student.

They work placement throughout their course for no wage in their first 3 years and they have no say on where they get placed.

They start off at 24k a year after 4 years of college.

Nui hospital in Galway recently had a position advertised for the laundry room starting off at 26k a year. No education or experience required.

Joke of system we have

professore

Ipso wrote: »

How much extra tax are you willing to pay for their rise?

Bet he or she doesn't pay any tax.

Twenty Grand

professore wrote: »

Bet he or she doesn't pay any tax.

I pay lots of tax, and this countries tax money is wasted in the billions every year.

I'd be far happier to see if pay nurses wages that any of the "consultants" and working groups and
think tanks the government employ.