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RSA ad on unaccompanied L drivers

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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    Tbh, I think some of the fault is in the learning and licensing system. A year after I did my theory test I did 20 minutes or so of what I can honestly say was some the very worst driving I had done in months and I suddenly had the right to take a car full of squabbling children on the motorway on a daily basis. It just seems really unbalanced somehow. You go from passing a theory test to being allowed to just drive on the roads as long as someone with a license sits next to you. Without any practical lessons whatsoever you could be out on the N7 in a large van with no rear view and 3 screaming kids in the back, alongside your granny who hasn't actually driven in 15 years. Or after 12 lessons, 6 months and 20 minutes of quiet, suburban driving on a nice day was over, just you and the screaming kids can do loops of the M50 on an icy morning or drive the Gap of Dunloe in a storm.

    It's just all so uneven a system and the reality is that it allows people on the road who are often not remotely prepared for the type of driving they are doing. While the nearly 6 month wait for test dates just magnifies the pressure for excellent drivers who crumble under the pressure of a test. Should a young woman who had a few months of 'driving' and 9 lessons under her belt have been out alone in a car? Absolutely not. Is there a strong possibility that had her parent or a responsible older sibling been in the car with her that they would have told her to slow down before the bend? Almost certainly. But was the law enough of a preventative measure? Not necessarily. She could have been accompanied by a similarly young friend who was a licensed driver of 2+ years but not confident enough to correct her driving and still have been within the law. She could have been accompanied by the type of adult driver who is cockily blasé about the risks of driving on our rural roads and didn't tell her to slow in time. And our rural roads are full of those drivers so the odds of that aren't low. She could have been accompanied by an excellent driver who is a crap teacher who could have agitated her and made her driving worse. I honestly think that the RSA should be focussing on changing the whole learning to drive process rather than attempting to scare and shame people into complying with a very flawed system.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    road_high wrote: »
    But you’d sooner she lived a daily living nightmare. That way you wouldn’t have to do the dirty work. Nice

    Do the dirty work? Listen to what you're saying for Gods sake.

    You've gone from being holier than thou to an absolute raving lunatic in about ten minutes. What exactly are you accusing me of going to do? Or how are you mixing this all up as something Im going to do? You haven't a clue what you're at but your standards are so two faced at this stage that I don't think you ever will.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17 28112827


    Victor wrote: »
    RSA have indicated that approximately 12 fatalities per year involve leaner drivers, 10 of which are unaccompanied.

    The vast majority of collisions involved fully licensed drivers are because the vast majority of drivers are fully licensed drivers and they do the most driving.

    Thanks, sort of found where I had the stats from before....
    On your last point, of course that’s correct. 94% of fatalities come from the 91% of drivers that hold a full license.


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,266 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    splinter65 wrote: »
    How long of a sentence. Bear in mind her actions resulted in 2 lives lost and you want to show no mercy.
    If you go out on a Saturday night and end up in a fight and kill someone, you are likely to end up with a manslaughter conviction and a sentence of about 7 years.

    If one drives dangerously and breaks the law, one should at least expect actual prison time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    When the RSa do an advert like that they should publish all the engineer reports relating to it etc


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Patww79 wrote: »
    Do the dirty work? Listen to what you're saying for Gods sake.

    You've gone from being holier than thou to an absolute raving lunatic in about ten minutes. What exactly are you accusing me of going to do? Or how are you mixing this all up as something Im going to do? You haven't a clue what you're at but your standards are so two faced at this stage that I don't think you ever will.

    Pot kettle and black defo spring to mind. Your earlier posts sort of make more sense to me alright.


  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭North Cork Star


    Patww79 wrote: »
    And he's dead right too. She should never be let forget.

    She killed his family, what's he meant to do? Invite the family round for tea and a hug every day? Wise up and join the real world.

    Did she set out to kill them that day? You think that the man is right to keep reminding this girl of her wrongdoings? This man needs to move on and leave that girl alone. I've no problem him campaigning about Learner Drivers Law.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    road_high wrote: »
    Pot kettle and black defo spring to mind. Your earlier posts sort of make more sense to me alright.

    Yours make no sense to me if I'm honest. From coming across highly offended to the absolute maximum and then to be able to come out with some of the things you have and then just start making stuff up. I don't get it at all. You either have morals or you're in the gutter, you're pretending to be one and being the other.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    Did she set out to kill them that day? You think that the man is right to keep reminding this girl of her wrongdoings? This man needs to move on and leave that girl alone. I've no problem him campaigning about Learner Drivers Law.

    Leave her alone? Yeah she's the victim and he's the big bad one in all this :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭North Cork Star


    lbc2019 wrote: »
    He’s makibg her life a misery? Oh the irony

    There was no intention in the girl's actions though. It was unfortunate and she admitted her wrongdoings in court, accepted her punishment and wished it never happened. The man has to realise that.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    I didn't like the ad either and felt it was overkill. It's misery porn at this stage. I understand the family pushing for this but I feel the ads, news reports, newspaper articles were too much and felt exploitative.

    I feel for the driver of the other car and her family.

    My dad was hit by a drunk driver and thankfully survived but was left permanently disabled. The driver had been out the night before and thought he was fine but was still over the limit. It wasn't intentional, he was distraught. I can't feel any anger towards him.

    The girl has paid her price and will carry the guilt around forever. I think she should be left alone now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,476 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    The only issues in this ad are whether it actually affects people's behaviour and whether the family of the victims are happy to be in it. The culprit should be neither here nor there in this decision.

    Mind you spending the same amount of money having guards stop cars anywhere these culprits hang out might be better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Gardai are now the biggest tax collector of the state the way things are going.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Here's another beauty from down there ( 2009 g-earth though so might be fixed by now )

    Fixing the likes of this up would be better than a misery porn ad

    right across from the entrance to a co-op or something :

    https://goo.gl/maps/FjCwBsJEGEv

    7vXCTnq.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 391 ✭✭square ball


    The driver has already been punished. I understand she broke the law regarding driving unaccompanied but even at that time it wasn't enforced or adhered to by the majority of drivers. She wasn't't speeding, on her phone or intoxicated while driving. She made a mistake while driving. Something the vast majority of us have done except this one had the worst possible outcome. She has shown remorse and the campaign is very harsh. I do feel extremely sorry for the victims family and understand how difficult it must have been.

    Honestly how many accidents or near misses have we all had when our mind was on something else? We all like to think we are better drivers than we are. I would say the majority of us in the last few months have either caused or been the victim of someone else's bad driving been involved in a 'near' miss. Even if that is just avoiding a minor collision in a car park.

    The testing system in this country is a sham. 20 minutes spent ticking boxes in a town testing gear changes and looking in your mirrors and competency going from stationary to 30 miles an hour is hardly worth the time it takes to do it.

    On Monday how many 'experienced' drivers do something unsafe or illegal in your commute to work. Some of the driving see on my daily commute is crazy. I have to go through 6 2-lane roundabouts to get onto the motorway every morning and at least 2 out of 5 days every week someone forgets there are two lanes on at least onr roundabout even though there is plenty of room if they were paying attention. There are road markings on approach and exiting the roundabouts but not on the roundabouts themselves for some reason. The guards are only worried about catching driver's speeding within 50 metres either side of a change in speed limits rather than use of indicators, lane changes, etc.

    On another note do people here agree that the experienced driver in the passenger seat can be convicted for being intoxicated and disqualified from driving even though they weren't behind the wheel?


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Reminds .e of the n4 near Sligo.

    Lethal ditch or drain and it claimed lives.


    RSA needs to look at actual road safety at this level more.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,476 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Gardai are now the biggest tax collector of the state the way things are going.


    This isn't in any sense true and is a ridiculous thing to say.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    This isn't in any sense true and is a ridiculous thing to say.

    Joking aren't you. They are tax collectors.


    It's the biggest money intake.

    If they were interested in road safety they would be actually happy to prosecute.

    I've reported numerous very dangerous issues only one went to court.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    I'm not convinced an accompanying passenger present would have avoided this incident. It would have avoided this thread and legislation though. They might have had some luck and warned the girl to slow down at this junction or something, in practice how often do accompanying passengers intervene? It's not like they're trained as instructors.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,291 ✭✭✭lbc2019


    TheChizler wrote: »
    I'm not convinced an accompanying passenger present would have avoided this incident. It would have avoided this thread and legislation though. They might have had some luck and warned the girl to slow down at this junction or something, in practice how often do accompanying passengers intervene? It's not like they're trained as instructors.

    Well if your not convinced then lets wind it up so!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭speckled_park


    Feel so sorry for the farmily. This accident could have happened to a full licensed driver, i read in an article that her mind was occupied on an upcoming appointment and wasnt concentrating before pulling out of the junction. The new rules may lessen deaths among learner drivers ( are there many per year?) but think they could go about it differently. Dont think the new rules are practical especially for rural ireland.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,418 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Gardai are now the biggest tax collector of the state the way things are going.

    If only there was some easy way to avoid those pesky 'taxes'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,266 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Joking aren't you. They are tax collectors.


    It's the biggest money intake.

    If they were interested in road safety they would be actually happy to prosecute.

    I've reported numerous very dangerous issues only one went to court.

    https://www.audit.gov.ie/en/Find-Report/Publications/2018/vote-20.pdf

    Receipts from Road Traffic Act fines €3,073,000.

    Total receipts from fixed charge notices in 2017 was €17.27 million.

    https://www.finance.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/FINANCE-ACCOUNTS-2017-FINAL-1.pdf

    Total government receipts of about €55,511,484,000. So motoring fines are about 0.03% of government receipts.


    That needs to be set against fees to the GoSafe consortium of about €16 million per year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Reminds .e of the n4 near Sligo.

    Lethal ditch or drain and it claimed lives.


    RSA needs to look at actual road safety at this level more.

    That costs a lot of money, cheaper do ads that apportion blame.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,291 ✭✭✭lbc2019


    If they have a sign warning of exposed verges etc the onus is on the driver to be aware of them


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,418 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Reminds .e of the n4 near Sligo.

    Lethal ditch or drain and it claimed lives.


    RSA needs to look at actual road safety at this level more.
    How does a ditch claim lives?


    Did it jump out on the road and drag the drivers into the ditch or what?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    lbc2019 wrote: »
    If they have a sign warning of exposed verges etc the onus is on the driver to be aware of them

    And supposing an animal or pedestrian suddenly jump out in front of you- you have to brake hard and swerve on a wet, greasy road to avoid them- do you think a sign is sufficient to stop them hitting the obstacle or dyke?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    How does a ditch claim lives?


    Did it jump out on the road and drag the drivers into the ditch or what?

    Have you ever driven a car?


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    How does a ditch claim lives?


    Did it jump out on the road and drag the drivers into the ditch or what?

    You're having a laugh right.....

    Collisions happen just exactly like what this thread is about.

    There shouldn't be exposed drains, ditches or rivers without protection barriers to help prevent a vehicle entering such a thing.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,418 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    road_high wrote: »
    Have you ever driven a car?


    Only for about 35 years - cars, vans, minibuses, ambulances - and never once felt intimidated by a ditch.

    You're having a laugh right.....

    Collisions happen just exactly like what this thread is about.

    There shouldn't be exposed drains, ditches or rivers without protection barriers to help prevent a vehicle entering such a thing.


    Yeah, it's such a laughable topic, right?


    Collisions happen because drivers drive too fast for the road conditions, or ignore the weather forecast, or are thinking about their upcoming appointment instead of their driving, or are updating WhatsApp or Facetiming while driving.


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