RSA ad on unaccompanied L drivers

gctest50

Eric Cartman wrote: »

its not like the tyre deflated in 5 meters.....

5 meters at say 95 km/h isn't a long time

Eric Cartman

gctest50 wrote: »

5 meters at say 95 km/h isn't a long time

but it wasnt 5 meters , also it was on the straight of a wide carraigeway, The raised cats eyes did the final job.

Are you telling me that any reasonably experienced driver out there in a small hatchback weighed down with people wouldnt feel driving on a flat tyre and would also let the car wander over the cats eyes in the median of the road.

also the 95km/h is that in the report ? I never remember her speed being documented so accurately.

emeldc

pablo128 wrote: »

I was just thinking if it was a 21 yr old man from Tallaght, Finglas, Ballymun, Ballyfermot, there wouldn't be half the amount of apologists on here.

I think the apologists are out numbered by those who would have her crucified.

gctest50

Tyre fitter Andrew McAuley who worked with Fast Lane Tyre Centre on the Pollerton Road, Carlow recalled changing a damaged tyre on Kearney’s Polo on a date before the accident.

McAuley said he had been asked to put a ‘new’ second-hand tyre on the car.

He told the court he did not check any of the other tyres. The court was told the witness knew the defendant’s family and had given the best quality tyre on the day

gctest50

Eric Cartman wrote: »

also the 95km/h is that in the report ? I never remember her speed being documented so accurately.

see the say bit ?

gctest50 wrote: »

5 meters at say 95 km/h isn't a long time

gctest50

dense wrote: »

.......


Were they subsequently lowered to prevent a reoccurrence? I don't think that was ever reported on either.

Probably not - way easier do a PowerPoint on it

dense

gctest50 wrote: »

Probably not - way easier do a PowerPoint on it

Do a PowerPoint??

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

then our licencing process needs to be reformed. Those two women shouldnt be on the road if they cant recognise the obvious feeling of a flat tyre , recognise bald tyres etc....

It's happened a few times over the years that I've spotted a car running on an obviously flat tyre, caught the driver's attention and told them, and they say 'Oh no' and drive off at a normal speed, seemingly ignoring it.

dense wrote: »

Feelings about some injury to the tyre caused by cats eyes that were particularly high. A guess then, an educated guess, but still a guess.

Just to clarify, an educated guess from an expert engaged by the defence. And the Garda investigator was off the view that the car had been running on a low pressure tyre for some period before the crash.

horse7 wrote: »

How do you report unqualified drivers who are driving?

Phone your local Garda station, or the Garda TrafficWatch line.

bfa1509 wrote: »

Then why do insurance companies split the liability so much even when the cause is clear as day?

Don't know much about it, but at a guess, this would have something to do with the extensive legal costs involved in taking a case to Court.

dense wrote: »

According to the RSA there are no accidents.

They're "collisions" in safety-speak.

That's not just the RSA. The Garda talk about collisions. All over the world, there is a movement to move away from the 'accident' term, to hold motorists accountable for their driving.



https://www.crashnotaccident.com

gctest50 wrote: »

Since cyclists don't always pay attention :

they might end up in a drain all by themselves

(or in this case "helped" by an outside force ) :

I'm not quite sure I get the significance of raising this issue at this stage in this discussion. But perhaps it might help to avoid the discussion going down a rabbit hole if I clarify that I see cyclists doing stupid stuff all the time. Sometimes, they endanger themselves by doing this, though the death/injury stats for cyclists would suggest that this isn't a huge problem. It is very rare that a cyclist seriously injures or kills someone as a result of doing stupid stuff.

Eric Cartman

emeldc wrote: »

I think the apologists are out numbered by those who would have her crucified.

At what point does the inexperience and negligence of somebody resulting in others deaths not deserve vilification ?

That lad who killed a load of his mates when 9 of them crashed in a passat - should we just let him off completely ?

A lad driving on bald tyres killing his passenger hitting a wall , should we forgive that ?

Driving unacompanied on a learner permit and driving defective vehicles are crimes, they are crimes for a reason , because things like this happen. When one of these incidents happens the person behind the wheel of that car is usially the only person to blame.

If it was anyone except a young girl behidn the wheel of that then half the investigation talking tp tyre fitters and road surveys etc.. wouldnt have even be done , the fact that they looked for literally anyone else to appoint blame to says it all.

pablo128

gctest50 wrote: »

Tyre fitter Andrew McAuley who worked with Fast Lane Tyre Centre on the Pollerton Road, Carlow recalled changing a damaged tyre on Kearney’s Polo on a date before the accident.

McAuley said he had been asked to put a ‘new’ second-hand tyre on the car.

He told the court he did not check any of the other tyres. The court was told the witness knew the defendant’s family and had given the best quality tyre on the day

Any idiot making a statement to that effect or in a courtroom should be sacked and never let work on a car again.

I used to work as a mechanic, and I have also worked in large tyre fitting chains. Not a hope in hell would you let a car out the door without looking at all 4 tyres. It's bread and butter stuff. They are there to sell tyres. If the car goes on a ramp, even more stuff gets checked, brakes, shocks, exhaust etc. Basically you would never miss a chance to make a sale.

AndrewJRenko

dense wrote: »

Feelings about some injury to the tyre caused by cats eyes that were particularly high. A guess then, an educated guess, but still a guess.

How high were they as a matter of interest? I don't think that was revealed?.

Were they subsequently lowered to prevent a reoccurrence? I don't think that was ever reported on either.

Why don't you check with Cork County Council if you're particularly concerned about this?

lbc2019

Little Less Conversation wrote: »

It was an accident. She didn't set out to kill them.

that would be murder. It wasn't an accident, accidents are blameless, she was fully at fault.

Little Less Conversation

lbc2019 wrote: »

that would be murder. It wasn't an accident, accidents are blameless, she was fully at fault.

No she wasn't. There was a gap in the wall. If that was fixed up, she would have just pushed the car to the wall and they wouldn't have went over and drowned.

lbc2019

Needles73 wrote: »

What has the fact she was responsible mean it wasn’t an accident ?

Do you not know the definition of accident?

lbc2019

Little Less Conversation wrote: »

No she wasn't. There was a gap in the wall. If that was fixed up, she would have just pushed the car to the wall and they wouldn't have went over and drowned.

Well a court of law says different and they heard all the facts.

Is she your mate?

Needles73

lbc2019 wrote: »

Do you not know the definition of accident?

You obviously dont.

“an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury”

This doesn’t preclude someone being responsible.

lbc2019

Needles73 wrote: »

You obviously dont.

“an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury”

This doesn’t preclude someone being responsible.

an event that happens by chance or that is without apparent or deliberate cause.

She was the deliberate cause. No accident. Given her behaviour on the road, it wasnt unexpected either.

Needles73

lbc2019 wrote: »

an event that happens by chance or that is without apparent or deliberate cause.

She was the deliberate cause. No accident

Ah ok. So she rammed them off the road deliberately.

lbc2019

Needles73 wrote: »

Ah ok. So she rammed them off the road deliberately.

That would have been manslaughter/murder. why so aggressive??

Galwayguy35

I don't blame the man for being bitter, his family is gone forever and he will never see either of them again.

road_high

road_high wrote: »

Anyone see the latest RSA ad? Man from north cork who’s wife and daughter died a few years ago in a horrible accident- the ad is quite pointed and sharp I think. I know his family were killed and it’s very tragic but the poor girl didn’t deliberately set out to kill them and could have happened any driver or accompanied driver. I think it’s in poor taste/tone

Agree completely.


He needs to just drop it now, the law has been implemented.

gctest50

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

..............


That's not just the RSA. The Garda talk about collisions. All over the world, there is a movement to move away from the 'accident' term, to hold motorists accountable for their driving.



httpss://www.crashnotaccident.com

..............

and that domain name could only have been registered by that special form of cyclist

splinter65

pablo128 wrote: »

I was just thinking if it was a 21 yr old man from Tallaght, Finglas, Ballymun, Ballyfermot, there wouldn't be half the amount of apologists on here.

Man or woman makes no difference to me. This person wanted to have a fun day out with her friends. All young people make mistakes and bad decisions it’s part of being young. She didn’t set out to kill anyone. It could easily have been a young guy.
No one deserves to be unmercifully tortured forever over a once off youthful mistake that will haunt them forever anyway.

User142

I've just seen this ad on social media and think it's brilliant. We are really making giant strides in making this practice unacceptable in the eyes of the majority. Just think back 10 years ago, to prosecute an unaccompanied learner the Gardaí would need to summonses the driver and then it was at the discretion of the judge what the fine would be and no penalty points.

We are definitely heading in the right direction, ads like this that hammer it home to parents the consequences they could inflict on another man and his family if they leave their young child drive unaccompanied after only passing a flimsy theory test and an eye test. Add to that Gardaí can now issue penalty points for not displaying L plates or being unaccompanied and now can seize the car using the Clancy Amendment.

I wouldn't be a fan of Shane Ross at all but he is at least tackling one issue head on that will reduce both fatal and non fatal collisions on our roads. People who've only passed a computer test should not be given either official or tacit approval to drive cars on our roads alone.

Eric Cartman

splinter65 wrote: »

Man or woman makes no difference to me. This person wanted to have a fun day out with her friends. All young people make mistakes and bad decisions it’s part of being young. She didn’t set out to kill anyone. It could easily have been a young guy.
No one deserves to be unmercifully tortured forever over a once off youthful mistake that will haunt them forever anyway.

and nobody is saying unmercifully tortured. Just in this and some other cases there was no justice served. An admission of guilt and a 4 year driving ban would have sufficed and atleast given the families something, instead she brazenly pleads innocent and strolls out of the court smiling without accepting a single percent of the blame for the deaths she caused. Im sure the accident will 'weigh' on her for the rest of her life , but a tangible punishment for a tangible crime would have been somewhat suitable.

Needles73

lbc2019 wrote: »

That would have been manslaughter/murder. why so aggressive??

I perhaps am getting frustrated. Apologies.

I don’t think you grasp the term accident. Regardless my point of view is a simple one. If someone makes an error on the road that results in injury and death they should be accountable.
That may include prison. No issue.
Where I have an issue is a national ad campaign of misery porn pointing the blame at a specific individual in a specific accident.
I respect other people’s views but I totally disagree with the ad and that would apply if the driver was a lad from Lucan or Ballymun.
The unaccompanied driver rule was ignored and abused for years but it’s easier point the finger at one individual and repeat it ad nauseum over the Christmas.

AndrewJRenko

gctest50 wrote: »

and that domain name could only have been registered by that special form of cyclist

From what I can see, it seems to be a coalition of three groups:

• Families for Safe Streets
• Transportation Alternatives
• Vision Zero Network

Just people who are concerned about not getting killed or maimed when walking, cycling or just hanging out.

pablo128

Needles73 wrote: »

I perhaps am getting frustrated. Apologies.

I don’t think you grasp the term accident. Regardless my point of view is a simple one. If someone makes an error on the road that results in injury and death they should be accountable.
That may include prison. No issue.
Where I have an issue is a national ad campaign of misery porn pointing the blame at a specific individual in a specific accident.
I respect other people’s views but I totally disagree with the ad and that would apply if the driver was a lad from Lucan or Ballymun.
The unaccompanied driver rule was ignored and abused for years but it’s easier point the finger at one individual and repeat it ad nauseum over the Christmas.

It's called making an example of someone. It happens all the time. It even happens in courtrooms around the world.

Is it a rough on the girl? Probably. But she knew the rules before she got behind the wheel, even if it wasn't enforced at the time. She took a chance, and unfortunately wasn't experienced enough to know to come to a stop at the junction. Completely her fault.

Needles73

pablo128 wrote: »

It's called making an example of someone. It happens all the time. It even happens in courtrooms around the world.

Is it a rough on the girl? Probably. But she knew the rules before she got behind the wheel, even if it wasn't enforced at the time. She took a chance, and unfortunately wasn't experienced enough to know to come to a stop at the junction. Completely her fault.

Should we have a national ad campaign to make an example of the Gardai who never inforced the rule ? No one disagrees that it was her fault. Anyways im done.

dense

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why don't you check with Cork County Council if you're particularly concerned about this?

Why the attitude?
I shouldn't have to check to see if their current height falls within whatever limits the engineer based his feelings in court on.