Munster Team Talk Thread VI - Stander Up and Fight

thomond2006 · 20-12-2018 09:53AM

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I know Frank Murphy is from Cork but is he a ref with the Connacht branch perhaps? He retired a Connacht player.

Wegians89 · 20-12-2018 09:56AM

thomond2006 wrote: »

I know Frank Murphy is from Cork but is he a ref with the Connacht branch perhaps? He retired a Connacht player.

Pretty sure he’s with the Munster branch

Squidgy Black · 20-12-2018 09:56AM

Deysel powered va JJ

thomond2006 wrote: »

I know Frank Murphy is from Cork but is he a ref with the Connacht branch perhaps? He retired a Connacht player.

Nope he's registered with the Munster branch, strange appointment.

https://www.pro14rugby.org/referee/frank-murphy/

Cookiemunster · 20-12-2018 09:56AM

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thomond2006 wrote: »

I know Frank Murphy is from Cork but is he a ref with the Connacht branch perhaps? He retired a Connacht player.

No, he's an MAR ref. http://mar.ie/honours

thomond2006 · 20-12-2018 09:58AM

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Thanks all. That's odd alright.

purpleisafruit · 20-12-2018 10:02AM

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thomond2006 wrote: »

Thanks all. That's odd alright.

I'm pretty sure Alain Rolland refereed Munster/Leinster in the past too. It shouldn't matter where the referee is from and Frank is a good ref who has actually played the game to a high level which in my mind, is a distinct advantage.

Mickiemcfist · 20-12-2018 10:07AM

It puts him in an uncomfortable position though, it's only natural to make a conscious effort to look impartial.

arsebiscuits1 · 20-12-2018 10:08AM

purpleisafruit wrote: »

I'm pretty sure Alain Rolland refereed Munster/Leinster in the past too. It shouldn't matter where the referee is from and Frank is a good ref who has actually played the game to a high level which in my mind, is a distinct advantage.

Rolland reffed last minute though as Gauzere was injured.

This is a strange appointment.

Having said that. Dudley Phillips was a Leinster branch ref and he reffed Cardiff vs Leinster in Arms park before.

I do think that an appointment like this adds needless extra talking points though.

There are some diehard Leinster fans who have a deep seated mistrust of Munster refs due to the years of Fitzbiggon. Not necessarily saying I agree. But there are a lot of people with a lot of examples lol

The Lost Sheep · 20-12-2018 10:17AM

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thomond2006 wrote: »

I know Frank Murphy is from Cork but is he a ref with the Connacht branch perhaps? He retired a Connacht player.

As others said. Frank isnt an ARCB member. Never has been. Retired from Connacht and was in Cork when started refereeing. Always been MAR

purpleisafruit wrote: »

I'm pretty sure Alain Rolland refereed Munster/Leinster in the past too. It shouldn't matter where the referee is from and Frank is a good ref who has actually played the game to a high level which in my mind, is a distinct advantage.

Alain Rolland has and plenty talked about then
It shouldnt matter at all where ref is from but it will to too many

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

It puts him in an uncomfortable position though, it's only natural to make a conscious effort to look impartial.

It isnt that difficult to simply ref the game in front of you. Ref may be from a province/area but wont necessarily have a connection to the team/players so not really in an uncomfortable position IMO

20-12-2018 10:25AM

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I've no issue with a Munster ref taking charge of the game. The IRFU / league wouldn't give him the gig if they weren't satisfied with his integrity, that's enough for me.

Cookiemunster · 20-12-2018 10:28AM

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The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Ref may be from a province/area but wont necessarily have a connection to the team/players so not really in an uncomfortable position IMO

The 5 pro refs train at the High Performance Center in UL. It's not like the old days, they have plenty of interaction with the players. I'm sure he'll do a fine job of the game, but it's an unnecessary distraction.

Squidgy Black · 20-12-2018 10:29AM

Deysel powered va JJ

I've no problem with Murphy taking the game, I just think it's a strange appointment from the Pro14/IRFU to put him in that position.

It means any decisions that are even slightly close to being debatable will be picked up by certain crowds as bias and unfair etc.

Former Former · 20-12-2018 10:35AM

John Hayes Ligind

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I've no problem with Murphy taking the game, I just think it's a strange appointment from the Pro14/IRFU to put him in that position.

It means any decisions that are even slightly close to being debatable will be picked up by certain crowds as bias and unfair etc.

Agreed, he's in a no-win situation. Makes a call for Munster, well, he's from Munster, isn't he? If he makes a call for Leinster, other people will say that's he's over-compensating so as not to be seen to be biased.

I don't think it will matter tbh. Leinster have too many injuries to send as strong a team down as we did last year, Munster will win handy enough.

Buer · 20-12-2018 10:38AM

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Deleted User wrote: »

I've no issue with a Munster ref taking charge of the game. The IRFU / league wouldn't give him the gig if they weren't satisfied with his integrity, that's enough for me.

When I p*ss and moan that Murphy should be wearing a balaclava and he robbed the brave Leinster side of a deserved victory against the dastardly and underhanded Munster it will be because I'm bitter and drunk, not because Murphy is from Cork.

But being from Cork is enough reason for abuse anyway, in fairness.

Mickiemcfist · 20-12-2018 10:46AM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

It isnt that difficult to simply ref the game in front of you. Ref may be from a province/area but wont necessarily have a connection to the team/players so not really in an uncomfortable position IMO

If that was always the case, leagues wouldn't aim for refs not being from either side.

Would also be pretty unusual for a rugby ref not having an interest in the rugby team where he's from. I'm not in any way saying he is going to be biased, I'm just saying that if I was reffing a Munster game I'd instinctively want to be harsher on the other side, but then consciously try to reel that in. It just adds another level of complexity to an already very difficult role. When avoidable, it should be avoided.

The Lost Sheep · 20-12-2018 10:47AM

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Cookiemunster wrote: »

The 5 pro refs train at the High Performance Center in UL. It's not like the old days, they have plenty of interaction with the players. I'm sure he'll do a fine job of the game, but it's an unnecessary distraction.

5 do train in Limerick but the other pro refs train elsewhere and they have interaction with all irish players regularly.
Its only unnecessary for some here/twitter etc though.

The Lost Sheep · 20-12-2018 10:50AM

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Mickiemcfist wrote: »

If that was always the case, leagues wouldn't aim for refs not being from either side.

Would also be pretty unusual for a rugby ref not having an interest in the rugby team where he's from. I'm not in any way saying he is going to be biased, I'm just saying that if I was reffing a Munster game I'd instinctively want to be harsher on the other side, but then consciously try to reel that in. It just adds another level of complexity to an already very difficult role. When avoidable, it should be avoided.

You say that but ive reffed my own club plenty of times. Sure ive reffed siblings of mine before. Its not that difficult to simply ref the moments/laws of the game and not be thinking about more
Yes a ref is a fan as much as any player and anyone else but dont see why that means they shouldnt be doing the games

aloooof · 20-12-2018 10:58AM

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Mickiemcfist wrote: »

If that was always the case, leagues wouldn't aim for refs not being from either side.

I think the reason leagues aim for refs not being from either side is largely for the refs benefit, and nothing to do with the integrity of their refereeing. And that's the only issue I'd have with it.

I'd have a huge amount of sympathy for refs in this situation; he's bound to attract some flak regardless of how well he performs. It'll be lost on some people, but refs take just as much pride in their performance as players.

20-12-2018 11:04AM

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Buer wrote: »

But being from Cork is enough reason for abuse anyway, in fairness.

Every summer I go to Cork for a week and I have a Leinster jersey for each and every day!

Mickiemcfist · 20-12-2018 11:15AM

aloooof wrote: »

I think the reason leagues aim for refs not being from either side is largely for the refs benefit, and nothing to do with the integrity of their refereeing. And that's the only issue I'd have with it.

Where did I say it had anything to do with a refs integrity? I said it puts the ref in an uncomfortable position, which it does & you appear to agree.

Mickiemcfist · 20-12-2018 11:18AM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You say that but ive reffed my own club plenty of times. Sure ive reffed siblings of mine before. Its not that difficult to simply ref the moments/laws of the game and not be thinking about more
Yes a ref is a fan as much as any player and anyone else but dont see why that means they shouldnt be doing the games

I've also reffed my own club, not siblings but cousins too. If you think the level of scrutiny on refs is the same in club rugby vs tv broadcasted 30k seater interpro sell outs we may just have to shake hands & leave it at that.

Shefwedfan · 20-12-2018 11:18AM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Maybe he could stay as RWC cover with Murray absent but I don't see anything beyond that. Ultimately the RWC is an opportunity for McCarthy to start 4-5 matches so I don't see a need to keep Mathewson.

It's a joke Mathewson deal was extended. To allow him to stay after signing a young Irish player would be a disgrace.

Not alone for the signed player, but all the other young Irish 9's that Munster have.....

thomond2006 · 20-12-2018 11:23AM

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Shefwedfan wrote: »

It's a joke Mathewson deal was extended. To allow him to stay after signing a young Irish player would be a disgrace.

Not alone for the signed player, but all the other young Irish 9's that Munster have.....

Was it a joke? Mathewson is a level above the other players and he's not blocking any 'young Irish 9'.

arsebiscuits1 · 20-12-2018 11:24AM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Was it a joke? Mathewson is a level above the other players and he's not blocking any 'young Irish 9'.

If he signs on for another season he will be.

Mickiemcfist · 20-12-2018 11:25AM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Was it a joke? Mathewson is a level above the other players and he's not blocking any 'young Irish 9'.

If it's a joke, we can have a good laugh at Fardy, Lowe & Tomane so.

aloooof · 20-12-2018 11:30AM

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Mickiemcfist wrote: »

Where did I say it had anything to do with a refs integrity? I said it puts the ref in an uncomfortable position, which it does & you appear to agree.

Ya, I think we largely agree. I suspect, in practice, he'll have too much to be keeping an eye on during the game than to be consciously or sub-consciously trying to level it up one way or the other.

Shefwedfan · 20-12-2018 11:34AM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Was it a joke? Mathewson is a level above the other players and he's not blocking any 'young Irish 9'.

So it is ok now if you sign a non-Irish player when they are deemed better than an Irish equivalent? Not sure the IRFU would see it that way

Mathewson was signed as injury replacement for Murray. Murray was back and he was signed again

now your talking about another contract to cover the WC????

Currently Munster have 5 scrum halfs in the senior team, 2 in the academy and 2 in the A side. Ok Jack Stafford is in Academy and A side.

But why do they need 8 scrum half's? Why not give a chance to a young player....throw him in for one of the home Pro14 fixtures when the B team is sent over anyway???

Even consider the WC, Munster will lose 1 SH? so you will be left with 7 in the squad. Please explain why you would need 8?

Leinster, 3 Senior, 2 Academy

That's a total of 5.......with one joining Munster next season

thomond2006 · 20-12-2018 11:39AM

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Shefwedfan wrote: »

So it is ok now if you sign a non-Irish player when they are deemed better than an Irish equivalent? Not sure the IRFU would see it that way

Mathewson was signed as injury replacement for Murray. Murray was back and he was signed again now your talking about another contract to cover the WC????

Currently Munster have 5 scrum halfs in the senior team, 2 in the academy and 2 in the A side. Ok Jack Stafford is in Academy and A side.

But why do they need 8 scrum half's? Why not give a chance to a young player....throw him in for one of the home Pro14 fixtures when the B team is sent over anyway???

Even consider the WC, Munster will lose 1 SH? so you will be left with 7 in the squad. Please explain why you would need 8?

Leinster, 3 Senior, 2 Academy

That's a total of 5.......with one joining Munster next season

Duncan Williams and James Hart are out of contract. Get your facts right please.

I don't think Mathewson will be kept on beyond this season FWIW.

aloooof · 20-12-2018 11:42AM

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Shefwedfan wrote: »

So it is ok now if you sign a non-Irish player when they are deemed better than an Irish equivalent? Not sure the IRFU would see it that way

Sorry, what? Are you suggesting teams should be signing players who are worse than they currently have??

Also, you do know the IRFU are involved in these signings, right?

Eod100 · 20-12-2018 11:48AM

Munster: Mike Haley; Darren Sweetnam, Sammy Arnold, Jaco Taute (C), Alex Wootton; JJ Hanrahan, Alby Mathewson; Jeremy Loughman, Kevin O’Byrne, Stephen Archer; Jean Kleyn, Darren O’Shea; Fineen Wycherley, Conor Oliver, Arno Botha.

Replacements: Mike Sherry, Dave Kilcoyne, Ciaran Parker, Gavin Coombes, Tommy O’Donnell, Neil Cronin, Bill Johnston, Shane Daly.

Munster Team Talk Thread VI - Stander Up and Fight

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