Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Shane Ross' new speeding penalties

167891012»

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    There are plenty of rules for cyclists and cyclists are prosecuted by Gardai as required.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/nearly-600-cyclists-fined-under-new-penalty-regime-1.2631593

    Like most of the rules for motorists, they are ignored most of the time.

    But let's not pretend that cyclists are in the same ballpark as motorists for danger and harm.

    Motorists have killed 4,000 people in Ireland over the last 15 years. Cyclists have killed zero people over the same period. Motorists kill about 1 pedestrian each week on average.

    Is it always the motorist fault when the pedestrian gets killed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    mgn wrote: »
    https://www.thejournal.ie/woman-critical-collision-cyclist-3920019-Mar2018/

    What about the cyclist flying around the place with regard for nothing,up on footpaths, breaking lights, no lights on bikes, no safety gear.Why is there no rules for them?.Answer because we got a shower of anti motorist cyclist ministers and councillors who make the rules.

    I think the bigger concern are the cars that cause more accidents, do more damage, kill and maim more people and are less skilful in managing their vehicles.

    I don’t know who told you there were no rules for cyclists. You clearly need to brush up on the rules of the road if you thing certain road users don’t have applicable rules.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,348 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    Oh I see the usual motorist hater from the MAMIL forum has wondered in again with the usual top trump links to reaffirm his self hatred towards motorists. That chip on your shoulder is really getting bigger, best get a surgeon to take a look at it as soon as possible before it completely consumes you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 156 ✭✭koheim


    Vicxas wrote: »
    Can anyone tell me if this passed through the cabinet?

    Should pass no problem, same as the drink driving bill. Only a few obscure senators complaining, and of course Mattie McGrath.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    I think the bigger concern are the cars that cause more accidents, do more damage, kill and maim more people and are less skilful in managing their vehicles.

    I don’t know who told you there were no rules for cyclists. You clearly need to brush up on the rules of the road if you thing certain road users don’t have applicable rules.

    What planet are you living on.Drive around any town and within 5 minutes you will see someone idot up on the footpath or going through a red light.Or maybe you only see what you want to see.The cyclists have rules but the ignore them.The would rather complain about the motorist.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    mgn wrote: »
    What planet are you living on.Drive around any town and within 5 minutes you will see someone idot up on the footpath or going through a red light.Or maybe you only see what you want to see.The cyclists have rules but the ignore them.The would rather complain about the motorist.

    I see just as many cars breaking lights MGN. I’m a motorists, but I cycle commute too, which means I’m usually at the top of the line in traffic at lights. This, along with my standing height and unimpeded (by pillars) view of traffic means I see a lot more than you do in your car and believe me, cars are way more dangerous and careless.

    Aside from that, the stats speak for themselves.

    Pedestrians and cyclists are almost 50% of traffic in Dublin.

    Yet cyclists are the cause of less than 10% of accidents and emergency braking with the LUAS.

    And cars cause 50% of accidents and emergency braking with the LUAS.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    I see just as many cars breaking lights MGN. I’m a motorists, but I cycle commute too, which means I’m usually at the top of the line in traffic at lights. This, along with my standing height and unimpeded (by pillars) view of traffic means I see a lot more than you do in your car and believe me, cars are way more dangerous and careless.

    Aside from that, the stats speak for themselves.

    Pedestrians and cyclists are almost 50% of traffic in Dublin.

    Yet cyclists are the cause of less than 10% of accidents and emergency braking with the LUAS.

    And cars cause 50% of accidents and emergency braking with the LUAS.

    Funny when i'm sitting at traffic lights i usually see the cyclist come along look around if there is nothing coming carries on regardless of what colour the light is,


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭The Specialist


    mgn wrote: »
    Funny when i'm sitting at traffic lights i usually see the cyclist come along look around if there is nothing coming carries on regardless of what colour the light is,

    Same experience every day. Just last Friday I had a cyclist decide he would continue straight through a red junction (I had green light for a right turn with traffic stopped further up) and narrowly avoided getting himself pasted on to the road. It's nothing new though, you just have to understand that a cyclists intelligence or sense of self preservation isn't very high at all and plan around that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭Kevin Finnerty


    koheim wrote: »
    Should pass no problem, same as the drink driving bill. Only a few obscure senators complaining, and of course Mattie McGrath.

    Shane Ross will hopefully become obscure come next election.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    mgn wrote: »
    John_Rambo wrote: »
    I see just as many cars breaking lights MGN. I’m a motorists, but I cycle commute too, which means I’m usually at the top of the line in traffic at lights. This, along with my standing height and unimpeded (by pillars) view of traffic means I see a lot more than you do in your car and believe me, cars are way more dangerous and careless.

    Aside from that, the stats speak for themselves.

    Pedestrians and cyclists are almost 50% of traffic in Dublin.

    Yet cyclists are the cause of less than 10% of accidents and emergency braking with the LUAS.

    And cars cause 50% of accidents and emergency braking with the LUAS.

    Funny when i'm sitting at traffic lights i usually see the cyclist come along look around if there is nothing coming carries on regardless of what colour the light is,
    If you really want to go down the "who breaks the law most" road, have a look at the RSA Speed Survey first please, and see how 60% - 80% of motorists break speed limits. Then have a look at the Aviva mobile phone abuse survey and see how Ireland is 2nd worst in Europe.

    Then have a look at the road death figures.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    mgn wrote: »
    Funny when i'm sitting at traffic lights i usually see the cyclist come along look around if there is nothing coming carries on regardless of what colour the light is,

    Same experience every day. Just last Friday I had a cyclist decide he would continue straight through a red junction (I had green light for a right turn with traffic stopped further up) and narrowly avoided getting himself pasted on to the road. It's nothing new though, you just have to understand that a cyclists intelligence or sense of self preservation isn't very high at all and plan around that.
    Isn't it amazing how, for all these stories that we hear of cyclists nearly getting killed breaking red lights, cyclists don't actually get killed breaking red lights.

    How could that possibly be?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    mgn wrote: »
    Funny when i'm sitting at traffic lights i usually see the cyclist come along look around if there is nothing coming carries on regardless of what colour the light is,

    I see cyclists looking around and if there's nothing coming carrying on regardless.

    I see motorists blindly blasting through red lights at much much higher speeds without checking if there's anything coming every day.

    And don’t forget, cyclists tend to have much better reflexes and faster reactions that car drivers


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    mgn wrote: »
    What about the cyclist flying around the place with regard for nothing,up on footpaths, breaking lights, no lights on bikes, no safety gear.Why is there no rules for them?
    Are you trying to take all the fun out of cycling?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    If you really want to go down the "who breaks the law most" road, have a look at the RSA Speed Survey first please, and see how 60% - 80% of motorists break speed limits. Then have a look at the Aviva mobile phone abuse survey and see how Ireland is 2nd worst in Europe.

    Then have a look at the road death figures.

    Have you no motorist to report today to your clamper mates.Seen that you have them on speed dial.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    I see cyclists looking around and if there's nothing coming carrying on regardless.

    I see motorists blindly blasting through red lights at much much higher speeds without checking if there's anything coming every day.

    And don’t forget, cyclists tend to have much better reflexes and faster reactions that car drivers

    What brainless idiot told you that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭The Specialist


    Isn't it amazing how, for all these stories that we hear of cyclists nearly getting killed breaking red lights, cyclists don't actually get killed breaking red lights.

    How could that possibly be?

    What an idiotic ****ing question. The cyclist I was referring to meeting last week only escaped serious injury or death because of MY actions and awareness as a motorist to avoid him - certainly not because of whatever dust was whistling around in his brain dead skull. A little darker road, maybe darker clothes and he could have had a family facing christmas minus a loved one, purely because he felt a red light didn't apply to him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    mgn wrote: »
    What brainless idiot told you that.

    The same stats that prove cyclists make better drivers! Much faster reaction times and far superior awareness than non-cycling drivers. A lot of professional racing drivers cycle for you good reason.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Isn't it amazing how, for all these stories that we hear of cyclists nearly getting killed breaking red lights, cyclists don't actually get killed breaking red lights.

    How could that possibly be?

    What an idiotic ****ing question. The cyclist I was referring to meeting last week only escaped serious injury or death because of MY actions and awareness as a motorist to avoid him - certainly not because of whatever dust was whistling around in his brain dead skull. A little darker road, maybe darker clothes and he could have had a family facing christmas minus a loved one, purely because he felt a red light didn't apply to him.
    And yet, I can't recall a single case of a cyclist being killed after running a red light in Ireland in living memory - can you?

    Is it just possible that people might be exaggerating the danger, or the nearness of the near misses or the frequency?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    mgn wrote: »
    If you really want to go down the "who breaks the law most" road, have a look at the RSA Speed Survey first please, and see how 60% - 80% of motorists break speed limits. Then have a look at the Aviva mobile phone abuse survey and see how Ireland is 2nd worst in Europe.

    Then have a look at the road death figures.

    Have you no motorist to report today to your clamper mates.Seen that you have them on speed dial.
    Did that already on the way in, thanks - hopefully will get a few more on the way home.


  • Posts: 24,714 [Deleted User]


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    The same stats that prove cyclists make better drivers! Much faster reaction times and far superior awareness than non-cycling drivers. A lot of professional racing drivers cycle for you good reason.

    This is bull sh1t of the highest order.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    This is bull sh1t of the highest order.


    https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2018/10/09/cyclists-are-better-drivers-than-motorists-finds-study/#417b84a86f6c

    Cyclists who drive are better behind the steering wheel than motorists, a new analysis has found. The link between cycling and safer motoring was revealed by a UK insurance firm which offers specialist motor insurance policies for cyclists. This analysis correlates with an earlier study which found that cyclist-drivers tend to have faster reaction times than non-cyclists.
    Nick Day of Chris Knott Insurance said an analysis of his firm's crash data showed that cyclists make less than half the number of insurance claims as non-cyclists.


    ...


    This insurance company’s commercial decision is also informed by a study published last year in Accident Analysis & Prevention which found that motorists who self-identified as cyclists were better able to spot potential road hazards. Study author Vanessa Beanland of Australian National University noted that the “demands of cycling” appears to hone awareness skills.
    In a lab setting Beanland and her associates found that cyclist-drivers responded to fresh information more quickly than motorists who did not cycle.
    Perhaps unsurprisingly, the cyclist-drivers were significantly faster at detecting the appearance of fellow cyclists.

    ...

    Beanland’s study concludes that “cycling experience is associated with more efficient attentional processing for road scenes” and she suggests that road safety would be improved for all if more motorists also cycled


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    This is bull sh1t of the highest order.

    If you can find evidence contrary to my post stick it up here chief!

    Truth is, cyclist are generally fitter and slimmer than your average sedentary driver like yourself. Fitter people have faster visual reaction times. Cyclists that are drivers have more cross-experience on the road giving them a better all-round insight and understanding.

    Far far superior road users.

    You should actually take up cycling to improve your driving skills, you'll see a difference in a short amount of time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭nelly17


    Cyclist drivers also leave plenty of room for cyclists and not be too pushy about getting past


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    This is bull sh1t of the highest order.
    It makes prefect sense that regular cyclists will make for better drivers generally.

    1) they're likely going to be physically fitter than their sedentary fellows and fitness correlates wth reaction times.

    2) They're also likely to be younger overall and again youth correlates with reaction times.

    3) There's more physical and mental coordination involved with riding a bike. You can't exactly daydream or be half asleep, which would translate well to driving(I'd also put motorbike guys in this category). Hell I know some that can barely walk across a room without bumping into furniture and are about as coordinated as a drunk octopus, yet have driving licences(they shouldn't in my humble).

    4) They have no "driver aids" at all, so this would tend to increase wariness. A bike's brakes are pure crap compared to a cars(yes they can generally stop more quickly, but they weigh nothing and are going more slowly). They're also more aware of speed and nearly every cyclist has fallen off and knows how even coming off at much above walking pace hurts*.

    5) they're much more vulnerable as road users so have to be more situationally aware of other road users and conditions(I'd put bikers in this category too).

    So yeah I can see how that stat holds up TBH.


    *earlier in the thread I got static for doing 90KPh on the inside lane of a motorway and how this was so "slow" and my confidence and my jalopy's capabilities were called into question. Now I bloody love speed and dislike pedantic whining health and safety types and said jalopy is capable of 200Kph(allegedly, on a closed road/autobahn...) and gets there quickly enough. However I'm also aware of how things can go very quickly and badly wrong at speed. I've seen it happen. I've experienced it happening. People can forget that a head on impact at 50Kph is roughly equivalent to driving off the second floor of a high rise car park. That will hurt. Hitting something at 90 will hurt like hell.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    nelly17 wrote: »
    Cyclist drivers also leave plenty of room for cyclists and not be too pushy about getting past
    This is where it goes a bit daft. Cyclists aren't automatically saints either. Maybe for your average commuter pedal pushers on their sit up and beg boneshakers and dayglo helmets, but some of the biggest speed demon thrill seekers I've known behind the wheel were/are avid hardcore let's see if I can hit 100kph down this hill on my 8 grand Campagshimanolo stripped down racing snake bike cyclists. Many moons ago(90's IIRC) I remember a car mag looked into what other sports types would make good racing and rally drivers and pro cyclists and downhill skiers were right at the top. Love speed, zero fear, great coordination and reaction times.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    The same stats that prove cyclists make better drivers! Much faster reaction times and far superior awareness than non-cycling drivers. A lot of professional racing drivers cycle for you good reason.

    With big heads to fit in their superior awareness no doubt.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,535 ✭✭✭btkm8unsl0w5r4


    This thread has nearly everything.....

    What we need now is discussion of:
    1. Overtaking lanes.
    2. Fog Lights.
    3. Nissan Leaf.
    4. Drink driving.
    5. Uninsured drivers.
    6. Dodging car tax.
    7. Petrol versus Diesel.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    This thread has nearly everything.....

    What we need now is discussion of:
    1. Overtaking lanes.
    2. Fog Lights.
    3. Nissan Leaf.
    4. Drink driving.
    5. Uninsured drivers.
    6. Dodging car tax.
    7. Petrol versus Diesel.

    Don't forget roundabouts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    This thread has nearly everything.....

    What we need now is discussion of:
    1. Overtaking lanes.
    2. Fog Lights.
    3. Nissan Leaf.
    4. Drink driving.
    5. Uninsured drivers.
    6. Dodging car tax.
    7. Petrol versus Diesel.

    Ask the cyclist the know everything.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭cdaly_


    nelly17 wrote: »
    Cyclist drivers also leave plenty of room for cyclists and not be too pushy about getting past
    Wibbs wrote: »
    This is where it goes a bit daft. Cyclists aren't automatically saints either. Maybe for your average commuter pedal pushers on their sit up and beg boneshakers and dayglo helmets, but some of the biggest speed demon thrill seekers I've known behind the wheel were/are avid hardcore let's see if I can hit 100kph down this hill on my 8 grand Campagshimanolo stripped down racing snake bike cyclists. Many moons ago(90's IIRC) I remember a car mag looked into what other sports types would make good racing and rally drivers and pro cyclists and downhill skiers were right at the top. Love speed, zero fear, great coordination and reaction times.
    Not automatically saints 'tis true but, on the bike I see how vulnerable I can be and I learn coping strategies which reduce my risk when mixing it up with motor traffic.

    Having been there, while in the car, I understand why that prat on the bike is 'all over the road' ('cos (s)he's taking the lane to ensure that a driver wanting to overtake has to cross to the other side of the road so the overtake is safer) and I understand just how dangerous it is for me (driving) to 'just squeeze by'.

    OTOH, give me an open road, good sightlines and a nice descent and I'll push for that 100kph (best yet was 82kph descending off Spelga Dam in the Mournes)...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Yeah, I’d be much more cycle aware than most drivers and never ever have “near misses” with cyclists, yet where I drive is a very popular cycle route and commuter area.

    Even with erratic cyclists, I can more or less read what they’re going to do by reading their body posture, looking at where they’re looking, observing the way they’re acting and the way they’re cycling.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    Ah lads. Ye were doing so well. If you cycle like a dick you probably drive like a dick and vice-versa. "cyclist" and "driver" aren't a different species. Your personality doesn't change depending on the number of wheels under your ass.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,313 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    mgn wrote: »
    What planet are you living on.Drive around any town and within 5 minutes you will see someone idot up on the footpath or going through a red light.Or maybe you only see what you want to see.The cyclists have rules but the ignore them.The would rather complain about the motorist.

    Perhaps they see red lights the same way you see speed limit signs...?:cool:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭cdaly_


    Incidentally, you know speed limits don't apply to bicycles. How come we're talking about them in a speed limit thread?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    John_Rambo wrote: »

    And don’t forget, cyclists tend to have much better reflexes and faster reactions that car drivers

    Do they lose these powers, when in their cars?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal



    Motorists have killed 4,000 people in Ireland over the last 15 years. Cyclists have killed zero people over the same period.

    Many, if not most cyclists, are motorists.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    cdaly_ wrote: »
    Incidentally, you know speed limits don't apply to bicycles. How come we're talking about them in a speed limit thread?

    Every time we have any thread where theres an opportunity to come in to this forum and have a go at motorists from a cycling perspective , a few hop the fence to defend the terrible standard of cycling in Ireland , then retreat to the cycling forum where the same standard of biased bile would earn you a ban were it the other way round. Standard fare these days.


  • Posts: 24,714 [Deleted User]


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    If you can find evidence contrary to my post stick it up here chief!

    Truth is, cyclist are generally fitter and slimmer than your average sedentary driver like yourself. Fitter people have faster visual reaction times. Cyclists that are drivers have more cross-experience on the road giving them a better all-round insight and understanding.

    Far far superior road users.

    You should actually take up cycling to improve your driving skills, you'll see a difference in a short amount of time.

    I’ve honed my skills driving much bigger machinery than cars never mind riding a bike added to that years pushing on in fairly powerful cars I’d gladly take on any cyclist in any reaction, awareness or judgment of surroundings test etc.

    I’ve done bits of cycling in the brief period I lived in a city center 1km from work but have absolutely no interest in it now even if I didn’t live in the country and commute into the city for work I still wouldn’t be bothered cycling, who would want to be out in that rain this evening for instance rather in a nice warm car. It also certainly made zero difference to driving skills and I call total bull on any “study” that says cycling improves driving as it’s total nonsense.

    Also not cycling does not mean people don’t exercise in other ways.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    The same stats that prove cyclists make better drivers! Much faster reaction times and far superior awareness than non-cycling drivers. A lot of professional racing drivers cycle for you good reason.

    I must be a good driver so.I learned how to ride a bike when i was about 5 and there were no stabilisers in my day.Learned how to drive a tractor when i was about 10 and drive a car around the yard when i was 13.Now we adult cyclist on about their superior awareness to cycle a F*ucking bike.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,157 ✭✭✭✭Alanstrainor


    Well lads I think we're done here, we've gone a long way from where this thread started.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement