Shane Ross' new speeding penalties

Micky 32

rgodard80a wrote: »

One way of doing that is by introducing average speed cameras across long lengths of the motorways.

But you have Nordie and foreign drivers driving on the roads with immunity.
Maybe everyone needs an Irish version of a driving licence to drive, to be able to apply Irish points on it and potentially ban them from driving in the republic at least ?

I know there was talk of applying penalty points across Irish and English licences, which would be a safe step in the right direction.

I think if a UK driver came over here and got stopped for speeding or dangerous driving and he got a ban by the irish courts it follows him back to the UK and visa versa.

Noveight

Shame to put dangerous driving at 150km/h when much of our motorway network is able for it.

Oh well.

Dr Turk Turkelton

If you can get 6 points for 20kph over would it not be better to run the gauntlet and only get 1 point extra for going 30 over?
Sounds like a +ev move to me.

Dravokivich

eagle eye wrote: »

Imo there should be a minimum speed as well as a max speed.
A lot of accidents are the result of two people driving one behind the other at 60 kmph in a 100 kmph area which forces a motorist who is in a hurry to attempt a double overtake.

If you can't see where you're going, you shouldn't be trying anything like that. It's one thing to feel the need to be somewhere, no one is worth a body bag for it. Everything we do while driving should not be motivated by selfishness.

Wibbs

McCrack wrote: »

A HGV/coach should never be in the overtaking lane of a motorway

I agree.

So someone driving miss daisy pottering along at 80-90 is going to force/compel/entice/make a HGV/coach pull out into the overtaking lane and that in turn delays many people behind it who have to slow down to its speed while it makes its overtaking manoeuvre

Doing just under 60 miles per hour in old money is hardly driving Miss Daisy territory. Certainly you really don't want to have something go badly south at that speed. Ask any fireman or Guard who've had to deal with the aftermath. And I say that as someone who likes pushing on when conditions and my humour allow. Put it this way, unless you've just pulled off a bank robbery you will never be sat waiting for to pass me on A and B roads...

But forget that for a mo, you do realise that the speed limit for a HGV on motorways is 90? Busses have a limit of 100, unless they're double-deckers with standing passengers then it's lower again (60 or 70 IIRC?). And that's on 120kph posted motorways.

Maybe it's a speedometer thing? The reason I say this is on motorways(other than the rare muppet actually speeding like their hair's on fire) I've never been flashed or scowled at, nor had trucks or busses overtake me and I'm keeping up with the majority of traffic(passing a few with it), so maybe this "speedos err on the side of caution and indicate higher speeds" is in play. My speedo is on the money going by GPS at higher speeds and lower speeds on those roadside speed indicators in urban areas, so maybe I'm fluting along at "100Kph"? 3200-3500 rpm in 5th anyway. Must look that up actually.

mgn

I done over 250 miles today and from what i've seen as more of a danger is people driving to slow.I have no problem with people driving slow as the might be nervous or have a bad car,but what i do have a problem with is people who won't pull over to the hard shoulder and let traffic pass.Behind some muppet today for about 20 miles doing 60-70 km on a road with 100 km limit.there was about 25-30 cars and trucks stuck behind him,all he had to do pull over for a minute.If lord Ross wants to improve road safety he could start with some sort of a refresher course for older drivers.

Wibbs

Dravokivich wrote: »

If you can't see where you're going, you shouldn't be trying anything like that.

I'd agree and I'd say that as someone who could get incandescent with frustration following a one litre Micra doing 60 clicks on an A road. In third. After a few miles I'd be chewing the wheel, appealing to various deities that they turn off up another road. I had a couple of close calls when I first started driving back in the 15th century which made my bowels loosen. It's not worth it. As my oulfella used to say you get a slow ride in a hearse.

highdef

Wibbs wrote: »

I agree.

Doing just under 60 miles per hour in old money is hardly driving Miss Daisy territory. Certainly you really don't want to have something go badly south at that speed. Ask any fireman or Guard who've had to deal with the aftermath. And I say that as someone who likes pushing on when conditions and my humour allow. Put it this way, unless you've just pulled off a bank robbery you will never be sat waiting for to pass me on A and B roads...

But forget that for a mo, you do realise that the speed limit for a HGV on motorways is 90? Busses have a limit of 100, unless they're double-deckers with standing passengers then it's lower again (60 or 70 IIRC?). And that's on 120kph posted motorways.

Maybe it's a speedometer thing? The reason I say this is on motorways(other than the rare muppet actually speeding like their hair's on fire) I've never been flashed or scowled at, nor had trucks or busses overtake me and I'm keeping up with the majority of traffic(passing a few with it), so maybe this "speedos err on the side of caution and indicate higher speeds" is in play. My speedo is on the money going by GPS at higher speeds and lower speeds on those roadside speed indicators in urban areas, so maybe I'm fluting along at "100Kph"? 3200-3500 rpm in 5th anyway. Must look that up actually.

You say that a HGV/coach should never be in the overtaking lane of a motorway but at the same time you state that you drive at around 80/90 on the motorway. Anything under 90 and you are holding up HGVs who may want and usually do want to go as fast as they can. As for coaches, that's a significant reduction in speed.

Are you saying that if you were driving from Galway to Dublin at 80/90, any coach or HGV that comes up behind you in the driving lane must stay there for the full length of the motorway because you feel they have no right to pass you by in the overtaking lane? You have to be kidding me

AndrewJRenko

eagle eye wrote: »

Imo there should be a minimum speed as well as a max speed.
A lot of accidents are the result of two people driving one behind the other at 60 kmph in a 100 kmph area which forces a motorist who is in a hurry to attempt a double overtake.

No one is forced to overtake.

The Specialist

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No one is forced to overtake.

When you are stuck behind a bellend doing 60 on a 100 road then it’s a guarantee you will be forced to overtake.

Dravokivich

The Specialist wrote: »

When you are stuck behind a bellend doing 60 on a 100 road then it’s a guarantee you will be forced to overtake.

You should only overtake when safe do to so. Or is objectively reviewing what's happening around you something you ditched after the driving test?

The Specialist

Dravokivich wrote: »

You should only overtake when safe do to so. Or is objectively reviewing what's happening around you something you ditched after the driving test?

What part of my post said anything about overtaking dangerously?

AndrewJRenko

The Specialist wrote: »

When you are stuck behind a bellend doing 60 on a 100 road then it’s a guarantee you will be forced to overtake.

You're not forced to do anything. You may choose to overtake - but that is your decision and your responsibility.

The Specialist

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You're not forced to do anything. You may choose to overtake - but that is your decision and your responsibility.

Yeah because you are willingly going to sit behind a car doing 40kph less than the limit?

4ensic15

seamus wrote: »

Simple sanity check, that's all. ANPR pops up the details of the car, including the licence of the registered owner (if they have one).

.

Yes, but how does that identify the driver? It only gives details of the fact that the registered owner has a licence. The driver might not be the registered owner.

sdanseo

No problem with the principle if speed limits are increased to be sensible in some areas. There's too many examples to list.

The increase in points is overkill - it has Shane Ross written all over it. The man has departed from reality.

His suggested penality is up to 5 points for going as little as 2-3km/h over the limit, and 7 points for going the equivalent of 7mph over. That's like forfeiting your car for parking on double yellows.

Instead of starting at 3 points, it should start with 1, and the financial penalty should be much higher.
Hit people in the pocket but don't put them off the road for two mistakes. You can come back from a €1,000 fine - you can't necessarily replace a job which relied on the car. It'd be too harsh.

i.e.
<10km/h over - 1 point €80
11-20km/h over - 2 points €120
21-30km/h over - 4 points €240
31-40km/h over - 6 points €480

All the above doubled for 50km/h zones and under or if in a roadworks zone (like USA)

40km/h over under 79km/h dangerous driving, automatic 6 month ban, €1500 minimum fine (71 in a 50, 85 in a 60)
40km/h or more over above 80km/h Garda discretion, can be dangerous OR minimum €480 fine and 6 points (over 119 in an 80, 139 in a 100, or 167 in a 120)

For all of the above, based on average industrial wage (€45,611*). Reduced by 1% per €1k less earned, increased by 1% per €1k more earned.

example 1. person earning €32,000
Base fine €480. Reduced by 14%. Actual fine €413

example 2. person earning €90,000
Base fine €480. Increased by 44%. Actual fine €691

example 3. celebrity earning 25 million
Base fine €480. Increased by 24,955% (of €480) - actual fine €119,784

Dravokivich

The Specialist wrote: »

What part of my post said anything about overtaking dangerously?

You are commenting about being forced to take an action. Whenever I see that in the roads, it's brute force, with no consideration paid towards what else is going on.

mgn

Dravokivich wrote: »

You should only overtake when safe do to so. Or is objectively reviewing what's happening around you something you ditched after the driving test?

There is thousands on the road that never did a driving test.There should be some sort of refresher course for people when the reach a certain age.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Nope, not confidence and my car is well capable of the limit and licence losing territory beyond it* and I do on occasion barrel along at the limit and on good surfaced backroads with good line of sight I'll "press on" a bit, which requires more confidence care and attention than moving my right foot a half inch down on the pedal on a motorway. I find 80/90 a relaxed pace, which gives me plenty of room and time if conditions change or other road users decide to be muppets. And it has happened.

As for safety I'm not sure what you're getting at there W. On 120Kph roads most people are averaging more like 100, trucks, buses and the like less again(by law). Are they "unsafe"?



*It is a bit of a stripped down racing snake mind you and as such as a driver you're much more aware of speeds and how fast you're actually going compared to most cars. These days in cars that are more and more cocooned from road feel people can forget that 100 kph is "fast" and if something goes wrong it will happen quickly and it will hurt, with the good chance it could kill you.

It’s a ridicolous speed to be driving a car on a motorway and musn’t be much of a car if it needs to be drive at that speed to feel relaxed. My car is absolutely at ease at 160kmh on a motorway, 120kmh is so so easy and slow for it I just could not see how you need to drive at such slow speeds.

Boradriver

Bring in a model like the one they have in Finland. Speeding fines are based on your income. There is a tolerance of 10 km/h in all cases.

Fixed speed cameras activate at 6 km/h and a notification is sent by mail with no consequences up to 10 km/h over the limit. Beyond 20 km/h fine is net income based with no upper limit.

http://www.speedingeurope.com/finland/

highdef

sdanseo wrote: »

No problem with the principle if speed limits are increased to be sensible in some areas. There's too many examples to list.

The increase in points is overkill - it has Shane Ross written all over it. The man has departed from reality.

His suggested penality is up to 5 points for going as little as 2-3km/h over the limit, and 7 points for going the equivalent of 7mph over. That's like forfeiting your car for parking on double yellows.

Instead of starting at 3 points, it should start with 1, and the financial penalty should be much higher.
Hit people in the pocket but don't put them off the road for two mistakes. You can come back from a €1,000 fine - you can't necessarily replace a job which relied on the car. It'd be too harsh.

i.e.
<15% over - 1 point €80
16-25% over - 2 points €160
26-30% over - 3 points €320
31-35% over - 4 points €640
36%+ over - 6 points €1280
50% + over dangerous driving, automatic 6 month ban, €2560 minimum fine

That seems fair and reasonable.

Allinall

highdef wrote: »

You say that a HGV/coach should never be in the overtaking lane of a motorway but at the same time you state that you drive at around 80/90 on the motorway. Anything under 90 and you are holding up HGVs who may want and usually do want to go as fast as they can. As for coaches, that's a significant reduction in speed.

Are you saying that if you were driving from Galway to Dublin at 80/90, any coach or HGV that comes up behind you in the driving lane must stay there for the full length of the motorway because you feel they have no right to pass you by in the overtaking lane? You have to be kidding me

HGVs are restricted to 80, and coaches are allowed use the outer lane.

Hope that clears up your confusion.

Dravokivich

Sienna Black Sacrifice wrote: »

It’s a ridicolous speed to be driving a car on a motorway and musn’t be much of a car if it needs to be drive at that speed to feel relaxed. My car is absolutely at ease at 160kmh on a motorway, 120kmh is so so easy and slow for it I just could not see how you need to drive at such slow speeds.

A previous car of mine was fine with 160kmh, doesn't mean i expected everyone else's to be.

Hurrache

Sienna Black Sacrifice wrote: »

,120kmh is so so easy and slow for it

What happens to it, does it get unwell? Maybe you should get rid of it and replace it with one of those ones where the driver actually controls the speed.

AndrewJRenko

The Specialist wrote: »

Yeah because you are willingly going to sit behind a car doing 40kph less than the limit?

The hint is in the "willingly" bit. It is a choice - to stay behind and a choice to overtake.

And the driver is responsible for the overtake.

highdef

Allinall wrote: »

HGVs are restricted to 80, and coaches are allowed use the outer lane.

Hope that clears up your confusion.

Incorrect, HGV's are legally limited to 80 on non-motorway roads with a speed limit of 80 or greater however they are mechanically/electronically limited to 90 on motorways.

Although you will still find them travelling at their maximum speed of 90kmph on R and N roads with 80/100 speed limits.

I hope that clears up your confusion.

flexcon

If i read this right :

If I get caught speeding 141kph at 10pm on a quite cork to Dublin motorway - I am to get a fine of €200 and 7 points in my licence?

I just went to liberty insurance for the crack and changed my position to 7 points as a new quote. it adds €300 to my policy. What in the hell? So that’s €300 x 3 years(until i loose my points) and €200 for the fine? You’d only find this going on in australia.

The proportionate penalty is absolutely absurd considering you only get
12 points to use in 3 years.

highdef

flexcon wrote: »

If i read this right :

If I get caught speeding 141kph at 10pm on a quite cork to Dublin motorway - I am to get a fine of €200 and 7 points in my licence?

Unless I have somehow missed some major part of the ROTR, I'm pretty sure that motorway speed limits do not vary depending on the time of day. I know there are variable speed limits to be introduced on the M50 soon but not aware of variable speed limits anywhere else.

Having said that, it's most likely going to be dark at 10pm so I'd be very weary of driving at an indicated speed of about 150kmph.

flexcon

highdef wrote: »

Unless I have somehow missed some major part of the ROTR, I'm pretty sure that motorway speed limits do not vary depending on the time of day. I know there are variable speed limits to be introduced on the M50 soon but not aware of variable speed limits anywhere else.

Having said that, it's most likely going to be dark at 10pm so I'd be very weary of driving at an indicated speed of about 150kmph.

Don’t get me wrong here. Speeding is speeding.

If i’m caught i won’t give grief to a guard.

It’s the penalty that seems out of whack witt reality. Living in germany obviously hasn’t helped with my perception of safe speed living next to autobhans.

finally i said 141kph - not close to 150kph. If it was 150 i’d be up in court.

amcalester

highdef wrote: »

Unless I have somehow missed some major part of the ROTR, I'm pretty sure that motorway speed limits do not vary depending on the time of day. I know there are variable speed limits to be introduced on the M50 soon but not aware of variable speed limits anywhere else.

Having said that, it's most likely going to be dark at 10pm so I'd be very weary of driving at an indicated speed of about 150kmph.

He has to use up his points some way