Garda shoots dog in Longford

Raheem Euro · 05-12-2018 9:23pm

tuxy wrote: »

How will you know which dog the DNA is from if the dead dog is hidden?

Samples taken from yard or house where dog lived. Such as dog hair.

cameramonkey · 05-12-2018 9:24pm

Señor Santa Pants wrote: »

I agree, we don't know.

Why ask a specific question if you have no intent to accept the answer, especially when all the information available to most of us, is open source?

You are using the fact thay we don't know, to support your theory.

Also, it wouldnt be strange for a sole AGS member to be first on scene ahead of back up, not strange at all.

Have you factored in that the travellers were on first name basis with the AGS member?

Would you not accept that a logical response (if a call to the station occurred) would be to send an AGS member who is familiar with the travellers in question to de-escalate the situation before it needed multiple AGS members?

Going from what is available in the media, this seemed to be a personal dispute that escalated once the travellers produced a weapon.

The questions I asked were mainly in response to statements that I had not seen reported in the papers. I wondered for instance how people knew that it was a ricochet, surely you would need a forensic examination to see in what condition the bullet was in when it hit to make such a statement.

I can except the logic of what you saying in your explanation of what may have happened, it may have happened exactly as you outlined. Of course something other than that may also have happened.

Dinkleman · 05-12-2018 9:25pm

Imagine having those people as neighbours!

pablo128 · 05-12-2018 9:26pm

cameramonkey wrote: »

Should be dog DNA evidence on his tie so. Case wrapped up.

......and allegedly a bite mark on his arm too.

I genuinely think that woman Traveller should have fcuked her phone in a ditch afterwards. That video doesn't paint them in a very good light.

As well as that, if you are pursuing compensation through the courts now and you are caught lying about anything, you get nothing. So I wonder will they keep pretending there was no dog.

Dinkleman · 05-12-2018 9:27pm

Travellers and the truth don’t work well together!

pablo128 wrote: »

......and allegedly a b

mark on his arm too.

I genuinely think that woman Traveller should have fcuked her phone in a ditch afterwards. That video doesn't paint them in a very good light.

As well as that, if you are pursuing compensation through the courts now and you are caught lying about anything, you get nothing. So I wonder will they keep pretending there was no dog.

runawaybishop · 05-12-2018 9:27pm

cameramonkey wrote: »

It is understood by who that a member of the public called the guards?

Listen I dont believe a word of what some travellers say but when an armed guard shots someone then there needs to be some evidence as to what happened.

It may have happened as you say but I think we should not jump to conclusions until we see some proof.

You have fairly quickly jumped to the conclusion that the gardai are suspicious bastards and travellers are more trustworthy despite the video and paper reports. If I smell **** I am not going to act like it's perfume

STB. · 05-12-2018 9:28pm

Señor Santa Pants wrote: »

Because it lends more weight to the travellers side of the argument.

If there was no dog involved, then the weapon was drawn for the intent to be used against the traveller.

The AGS defence is he was targeting a dog and the traveller was inadvertently struck.

If theres no evidence of a dog, then it looks worse on the AGS member.

Quite simple.

Well it would be quite simple if there weren't witnesses

Dinkleman · 05-12-2018 9:31pm

Is it just me or does it seem that travellers are getting way out of hand and the do gooders are facilitating the chaos across the country?

Signore Fancy Pants · 05-12-2018 9:32pm

cameramonkey wrote: »

The questions I asked were mainly in response to statements that I had not seen reported in the papers. I wondered for instance how people knew that it was a ricochet, surely you would need a forensic examination to see in what condition the bullet was in when it hit to make such a statement.

I can except the logic of what you saying in your explanation of what may have happened, it may have happened exactly as you outlined. Of course something other than that may also have happened.

Hopefully things will be clearer in the next few days.

Unfortunately with the type of people involved it will muddy the waters completely.

tuxy · 05-12-2018 9:33pm

Dinkleman wrote: »

Is it just me or does it seem that travellers are getting way out of hand and the do gooders are facilitating the chaos across the country?

Well they did get ethnic minority status which gives them extra freedom to practice their cultural difference which is at odds with the average Irish man or woman.

Nermal · 05-12-2018 9:34pm

Señor Santa Pants wrote: »

The AGS member was under threat, albeit a limited threat. He was engaging an unarmed civilian. If trained to shoot centre mass in this scenario as described, thats murder.

The situation was clearly not grave enough to warrant a direct targeted centre mass shot. However, low and at the legs was appropriate course of action.

If you have a gun and someone tries to grapple you, he may be trying to take it from you. Shooting him centre mass in that situation would have been absolutely proportionate. This cultured fellow is quite lucky he didn’t get a few new holes in his torso.

Signore Fancy Pants · 05-12-2018 9:34pm

STB. wrote: »

Well it would be quite simple if there weren't witnesses

Agreed.

They seem to be hedging their bets on the video evidence trumping witness statements.

lightspeed · 05-12-2018 9:35pm

pablo128 wrote: »

......and allegedly a bite mark on his arm too.

I genuinely think that woman Traveller should have fcuked her phone in a ditch afterwards. That video doesn't paint them in a very good light.

As well as that, if you are pursuing compensation through the courts now and you are caught lying about anything, you get nothing. So I wonder will they keep pretending there was no dog.

Then they have nothing to lose. How about we bring in a mandatory rule that if your case fails you owe the court minimum of €10k and you its coming out of your dole, child benefit, pension and any other scrap of income or asset you have.

gctest50 · 05-12-2018 9:36pm

Dinkleman wrote: »

Is it just me or does it seem that travellers are getting way out of hand and the do gooders are facilitating the chaos across the country?

do gooders ? you mean middle aged wans who don't want to see the supply-chain interrupted for their little codeine addiction ?

They can't be going to the chemist anymore with them compoooters

cameramonkey · 05-12-2018 9:37pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

You have fairly quickly jumped to the conclusion that the gardai are suspicious bastards and travellers are more trustworthy despite the video and paper reports. If I smell **** I am not going to act like it's perfume

Actually as I have said I don't really trust either sides version of events until I see some evidence.

I watched the video a few times and I cant see any evidence of a dog, now maybe there is one maybe not. There is no yelp as he is hit, there is no squealing( I have seen a dog shot and they make a lot of noise just like when they get hit by a car) except from the woman and nobody as far as I can tell is reacting to a dog being shot.

The one thing I do see is that the guy in the vans seems to be very frightened maybe even in fear of his life and the detective also seems very fearful.

White Clover · 05-12-2018 9:38pm

cameramonkey wrote: »

Actually as I have said I don't really trust either sides version of events until I see some evidence.

I watched the video a few times and I cant see any evidence of a dog, now maybe there is one maybe not. There is no yelp as he is hit, there is no squealing( I have seen a dog shot and they make a lot of noise just like when they get hit by a car) except from the woman and nobody as far as I can tell is reacting to a dog being shot.

The one thing I do see is that the guy in the vans seems to be very frightened maybe even in fear of his life and the detective also seems very fearful.

Did you not hear her say "you shot the dog" ?

cameramonkey · 05-12-2018 9:40pm

White Clover wrote: »

Did you not hear her say "you shot the dog" ?

No, what point is that at? I can hear the guy say" you shot my foot Tom" and wife say "you shot my" I cant make it out it sounds like "hussy".

Guard does say something about Toby.

Charmeleon · 05-12-2018 9:41pm

I thought when she screeches first she says aaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggghhhhhhh you shot my Alsatian aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Auguste Comte · 05-12-2018 9:42pm

White Clover wrote: »

cameramonkey wrote: »

Actually as I have said I don't really trust either sides version of events until I see some evidence.

I watched the video a few times and I cant see any evidence of a dog, now maybe there is one maybe not. There is no yelp as he is hit, there is no squealing( I have seen a dog shot and they make a lot of noise just like when they get hit by a car) except from the woman and nobody as far as I can tell is reacting to a dog being shot.

The one thing I do see is that the guy in the vans seems to be very frightened maybe even in fear of his life and the detective also seems very fearful.

Did you not hear her say "you shot the dog" ?

A nick name possibly?

runawaybishop · 05-12-2018 9:44pm

cameramonkey wrote: »

Actually as I have said I don't really trust either sides version of events until I see some evidence.

I watched the video a few times and I cant see any evidence of a dog, now maybe there is one maybe not. There is no yelp as he is hit, there is no squealing( I have seen a dog shot and they make a lot of noise just like when they get hit by a car) except from the woman and nobody as far as I can tell is reacting to a dog being shot.

The one thing I do see is that the guy in the vans seems to be very frightened maybe even in fear of his life and the detective also seems very fearful.

Dead dogs don't yelp, nor do they make much noise when they have a mouthful of someone's clothes.

You can hear the dog being referred to by both parties, including attack commands.

Raheem Euro · 05-12-2018 9:45pm

lightspeed wrote: »

Then they have nothing to lose. How about we bring in a mandatory rule that if your case fails you owe the court minimum of €10k and you its coming out of your dole, child benefit, pension and any other scrap of income or asset you have.

Solicitors run no foal no fee cases where there is at least a reasonable chance of winning. Then taking a chunk of the winnings is their prize and they can afford to lose the odd one. But they won't devote hundreds or thousands of man hours to a case that is almost certain to lose.

It cannot be confirmed just yet but I think it is very likely there will be a bunch of charges here against them, robbery truck/hijacking, assault, indictable obstruction of peace officer, destruction of evidence/obstructing justice. In other words the injury arose from their own criminal acts. In those circumstances they would have no case and legal professionals won't waste their time on a zero chance play.

Signore Fancy Pants · 05-12-2018 9:47pm

Nermal wrote: »

If you have a gun and someone tries to grapple you, he may be trying to take it from you. Shooting him centre mass in that situation iwould have been absolutely proportionate. This cultured fellow is quite lucky he didn’t get a few new holes in his torso.

In general I agree but TBH its not as clear cut as that.

If there is an attempt to disarm you, you are still expected to apply the minimum use of force (may be different for AGS).

In this specific situation as recorded, *if* it was the traveller pulling the AGS member in and his intent was to disarm him, it could be argued that a warning shot would have been sufficient to deter the advance.

I know it sounds ridiculous and you may not accept it but I know if it was me and I shot a guy in the centre mass, it would be queried if I could have used a lesser degree of force regardless of the threat posed to me.

STB. · 05-12-2018 9:49pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

You can hear the dog being referred to by both parties, including attack commands.

Yep.

You clearly can hear the traveller @ 29 seconds (after he smacks the guy in the van in the head) and closes the door saying "watch him, watch him, watch him". And you can then see the guards tie being pulled taut by something low and out of shot, the guard saying "get him off me, I'll put a bullet in his head".

And then someone screaming like a banshee.

I mean what does it take to get someones attention these days. The guard has his gun drawn and these idiots are giving guff. In the states, you were dead before the camera even came out.

runawaybishop · 05-12-2018 9:49pm

Señor Santa Pants wrote: »

In gener I agree but TBH its not as clear cut as that.

If there is an attempt to disarm you, you are still expected to apply the minimum use of force (may be different for AGS).

In this specific situation as recorded, *if* it was the traveller pulling the AGS member in and his intent was to disarm him, it could be argued that a warning shot would have been sufficient to deter the advance.

I know it sounds ridiculous and you may not accept it but I know if it was me and I shot a guy in the centre mass, it would be queried if I could have used a lesser degree of force regardless of the threat posed to me.

You can clearly hear the dog being given a command to attack the garda, the dog got a hold of his tie and was then shot.

Signore Fancy Pants · 05-12-2018 9:52pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

You can clearly hear the dog being given a command to attack the garda, the dog got a hold of his tie and was then shot.

I honestly didnt hear that and Im not suggesting it didnt happen as you said. I need to give it another watch and drown out yer wan's screams!

White Clover · 05-12-2018 9:52pm

cameramonkey wrote: »

No, what point is that at? I can hear the guy say" you shot my foot Tom" and wife say "you shot my" I cant make it out it sounds like "hussy".

Guard does say something about Toby.

43 seconds "you're after shooting the dog dead"

runawaybishop · 05-12-2018 9:53pm

STB. wrote: »

Yep.

You clearly can hear the traveller (after he smacks the guy in the van in the head) and closes the door saying watch him, watch him, watch him.

Right, and in case it isn't clear "watch him" is a command commonly used for guard dogs to point them towards someone in prelude to an attack.

runawaybishop · 05-12-2018 9:55pm

Señor Santa Pants wrote: »

I honestly didnt hear that and Im not suggesting it didnt happen as you said. I need to give it another watch and drown out yer wan's screams!

11 seconds is the first one, said calmly to alert the dog. 30 seconds in he says it a couple of times aggressively to get the dog to attack.

Signore Fancy Pants · 05-12-2018 9:57pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

11 seconds is the first one, said calmly to alert the dog. 30 seconds in he says it a couple of times aggressively to get the dog to attack.

The AGS member has nothing to worry about so.

Video evidence is a double edged sword
.

STB. · 05-12-2018 9:58pm

White Clover wrote: »

43 seconds "you're after shooting the dog dead"

Nope. "you're after shooting my husband" raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

tuxy · 05-12-2018 9:58pm

Yes it was husband that she said at that point.

runawaybishop · 05-12-2018 10:00pm

STB. wrote: »

Nope. "your'e after to shooting my husband"

Yes it was the husband she was referring to, like they would give two ****s about a dog being shot.

White Clover · 05-12-2018 10:03pm

STB. wrote: »

Nope. "your'e after to shooting my husband"

No, two words, "the dog"

At 22 seconds the guard refers to the dog and she says she has him on a......

Elvisjuice · 05-12-2018 10:05pm

White Clover wrote: »

No, two words, "the dog"

At 22 seconds the guard refers to the dog and she says she has him on a......

you are talking scutter

White Clover · 05-12-2018 10:11pm

Elvisjuice wrote: »

you are talking scutter

Great post stokesie!

STB. · 05-12-2018 10:14pm

White Clover wrote: »

No, two words, "the dog"

At 22 seconds the guard refers to the dog and she says she has him on a......

Time for you to unwax those ears. Its clear as day @ 43 seconds that she says "you're after shooting my husband".

Funkfield · 05-12-2018 10:14pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Yeah, and if I had two flutes I'd never leave the house.

A call was made, he was sent. Him being in his own or not is irrelevant. The only people responsible for this are the criminals involved

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

Why would you not leave the house?

Dude, c'mon...he'd be..eh...busy....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDhgYiBYx4s

White Clover · 05-12-2018 10:22pm

STB. wrote: »

Time for you to unwax those ears. Its clear as day @ 43 seconds that she says "you're after shooting my husband".

Video I have clearly says the dog.

harr · 05-12-2018 10:23pm

Gardaeize €50,000 worth of stolen machinery in Longford

Another raid in Longford today...same as last week stolen machinery recovered wonder if it’s the same crowd the guard was dealing with..

Ha Long Bay · 05-12-2018 10:23pm

They are not having a good week down there.

https://www.thejournal.ie/longford-seizure-4378507-Dec2018/

Wheres Me Jumper? · 05-12-2018 10:31pm

harr wrote: »

Gardaeize €50,000 worth of stolen machinery in Longford

Another raid in Longford today...same as last week stolen machinery recovered wonder if it’s the same crowd the guard was dealing with..

fair play to the gardaí, excellente!

about time these parasites were targeted.:D

tuxy · 05-12-2018 10:33pm

Yeah fair play that they didn't shy away after what happened yesterday.

That said it might not be travellers involved this time

Edit: Never mind this was a follow up to the raid that involved travellers.

STB. · 05-12-2018 10:34pm

White Clover wrote: »

Video I have clearly says the dog.

Well then your deaf or the voices are in your head. I recommend headphones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COr0k0fFnAg

Allinall · 05-12-2018 10:37pm

cameramonkey wrote: »

I don't know what happened but people are believing what the guards and what papers are saying, they don't always tell the truth.

What have the guards said?

I haven’t seen any statement.

gctest50 · 05-12-2018 10:41pm

Allinall wrote: »

What have the guards said?

I haven’t seen any statement.

For sale: German Shepherd. No food or vet bills. Doesn't bark or bite.

Techold · 05-12-2018 10:41pm

It is just that there is increased Garda resources and new Garda management deployed in the Longford area.it has been well known for quite some time now that Longford is infested with serious drug dealing families and serious crime lords. They have initiated serious campaigns of intimidation and house burnings against those who challenged them.This unfortunately extended to members of Garda Siochana and their families.With the noted exception of two honourable politicians all other TDs and county councillors were also afraid.This is somewhat similar to the Limerick crime situation and the Veronica Guerin murder times of some years ago.This situation has got out of hand due to under resourced policing.

gctest50 · 05-12-2018 10:44pm

Techold wrote: »

It is just that there is increased Garda resources and new Garda management deployed in the Longford area.it has been well known for quite some time now that Longford is infested with serious drug dealing families and serious crime lords. They have initiated serious campaigns of intimidation and house burnings against those who challenged them.This unfortunately extended to members of Garda Siochana and their families.

With the noted exception of two honourable politicians

all other TDs and county councillors were also afraid.This is somewhat similar to the Limerick crime situation and the Veronica Guerin murder times of some years ago.This situation has got out of hand due to under resourced policing.

Techold wrote: »

With the noted exception of two honourable politicians

Which two politicians ?

STB. · 05-12-2018 10:46pm

gctest50 wrote: »

For sale: German Shepherd. No food or vet bills. Doesn't bark or bite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hqZfYV8szM

arybvtcw0eolkf · 05-12-2018 10:58pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Man, you are condescending. I have trained in both.

I wasn't being intentionally condescending but if you're had experience with both its been poorly served (and that's me being nice to you, hows that?).

You need more training.

Right, Suits on Netflix now.

Nekarsulm · 05-12-2018 11:08pm

White Clover wrote: »

Video I have clearly says the dog.

Thats interesting, hope you save a copy of that version of the video.
If they released an "early" cut, it could be very useful in weeks to come!

Garda shoots dog in Longford

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