Poppy

RandomName2

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You can pretend it is something else...knock yourself out on that one.

Read the RBL website and you will see they agree with me.

Well it depends.

The Poppy Appeal is very much a British Legion thing used as a fundraiser for ex-servicemen. While it makes the pretense of being in remembrance of WW1, in reality neither the servicemen nor their families from that war are still alive, so that's clearly being used as a device by them.

But the symbol of the poppy itself is specifically to do with WW1. I mean it is superfluous to quote flanders field by the Canadian soldier McCrae

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row

The remembrance poppy is pretty typical in many of the Allied countries of WW1 (although France have the Bleuet de France instead).

It is as disingenuous of you to say that it does not represent the dead of WW1 as it is the RBL to say that their poppy appeal does.

Spook_ie

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

My grand-uncle died at the Battle of Cambrai. He's buried in a World War One cemetery.

I found this out two years ago.

He was forced out of his job and into the army.

Apparently it wasn't spoken about in the family as his brothers were Old IRA in West Cork.

He was fighting for an Empire that treated him like a second class citizen.... and continued their dominance of a small country for another three years.

Sacrificed to settle a dispute between royal cousins.

And should you not remember him?

FrancieBrady

corner of hells wrote: »

You're stuck in a loop Francie .

It'll be the same next year for you.
Past ,present and future , incapable of moving on .
Most will never have any contact with the British Army let alone see anyone wear a poppy.

:D I will never stop objecting to those who wish to see this become the norm here.

I have moved on, it is those who disgrace the memory of all those who have died at the hands of British imperialism, empire building and belligerent interference in the affairs and countries of others, who cannot move on.

Your 'bloody' poppy will always be resisted however much you pretend it is something 'honourable' to wear.

Mookie Blaylock

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It doesn't really matter what you think you are doing, you are wearing a symbol of support for the British armed forces of the past, present and future.

It's really quite funny to see how much you miss the actual point, too wrapped up in your own little world to grasp reality.

corner of hells

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D I will never stop objecting to those who wish to see this become the norm here.

I have moved on, it is those who disgrace the memory of all those who have died at the hands of British imperialism, empire building and belligerent interference in the affairs and countries of others, who cannot move on.

Your 'bloody' poppy will always be resisted however much you pretend it is something 'honourable' to wear.

What "objecting" are you you doing , Francie ? Bleating on an internet forum ?

If anything your mindset is more entertaining , you can't see that your a minority now , a throw back .

FrancieBrady

Mookie Blaylock wrote: »

It's really quite funny to see how much you miss the actual point, too wrapped up in your own little world to grasp reality.

Well do tell us, what your point is?

Why do you need to wear a symbol to show you 'remember' for instance? Do you only 'remember' when you wear this demonstrative symbol?

What does this remembrance mean? Has this remembrance been hijacked?

Do elaborate because you just seem to be another belligerent hat doffer who has no consideration for the many who have relatives killed by the defence (offensive, in Ireland's case) forces of Britain. And I do understand that many Irish foolishly colluded with British forces by joining up.

FrancieBrady

corner of hells wrote: »

What "objecting" are you you doing , Francie ? Bleating on an internet forum ?

If anything your mindset is more entertaining , you can't see that your a minority now , a throw back .

Oh right, the 'majority' of Irish people have suddenly taken to wearing a poppy!!!

Jimbob1977

Spook_ie wrote: »

And should you not remember him?

Yes. It's very sad that he died. He must have experienced unimaginable terror and dread every single day.

His family received his bloodied Bible in the post.

Millions of lives were lost in appalling circumstances. The gallant days of sword fighting and cavalry charges were gone. This was modern industialised war.

At the end of it, the borders were effectively the same.

Just no royal families in Germany, Russia, Austria and Turkey.

Mookie Blaylock

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well do tell us, what your point is?

Why do you need to wear a symbol to show you 'remember' for instance? Do you only 'remember' when you wear this demonstrative symbol?

What does this remembrance mean? Has this remembrance been hijacked?

Do elaborate because you just seem to be another belligerent hat doffer who has no consideration for the many who have relatives killed by the defence (offensive, in Ireland's case) forces of Britain. And I do understand that many Irish foolishly colluded with British forces by joining up.

No, unfortunately, this post just showed the blinkered thinking of a thankfully small minority who are unable to grasp the meaning of a little red flower

FrancieBrady

Mookie Blaylock wrote: »

No, unfortunately, this post just showed the blinkered thinking of a thankfully small minority who are unable to grasp the meaning of a little red flower

Blinkered thinking?

To be against war mongering, immoral dealing in armaments, belligerent interference in the sovereignty of other nations and the manufacturing of wars is blinkered thinking?

Hmmmm...that concept is not working for me there Mookie.

arybvtcw0eolkf

RandomName2 wrote: »

Well it depends.

The Poppy Appeal is very much a British Legion thing used as a fundraiser for ex-servicemen. While it makes the pretense of being in remembrance of WW1, in reality neither the servicemen nor their families from that war are still alive, so that's clearly being used as a device by them.

But the symbol of the poppy itself is specifically to do with WW1. I mean it is superfluous to quote flanders field by the Canadian soldier McCrae

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row

The remembrance poppy is pretty typical in many of the Allied countries of WW1 (although France have the Bleuet de France instead).

It is as disingenuous of you to say that it does not represent the dead of WW1 as it is the RBL to say that their poppy appeal does.

Just to be a little pedantic for a moment, its for ex-service men, women and their families.

My own great grandfather fought with the 9th Bn of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers and I recall us getting help from the BL when I was a child (we hadn't a washer to spend at Christmas's etc).

Its a shame a charity has been made into a political football.

And I often wonder, and ask, the bar stool Fenians what heroic deed's lies in their families past, did they fight in the rising or war of independence ~ to a man (or woman) not one had anything to brag about.

I'm a serving soldier, I'm on duty tomorrow for the centenary of the armistice (at home), but 100 years ago my great grandfather was on a battlefield in France and no bar stool Fenian is going to make me feel anything but pride in that.

Spanish Eyes

SF and their acolytes seem to be ruining the pacifist theme here.

But it was ever thus.

Move on and forever remember those who died and those ordinary families who suffered too.

They haven't gone away you know. Ugh.

FrancieBrady

Allyson Obnoxious Tailgate wrote: »

Just to be a little pedantic for a moment, its for ex-service men, women and their families.

My own great grandfather fought with the 9th Bn of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers and I recall us getting help from the BL when I was a child (we hadn't a washer to spend at Christmas's etc).

Its a shame a charity has been made into a political football.

And I often wonder, and ask, the bar stool Fenians what heroic deed's lies in their families past, did they fight in the rising or war of independence ~ to a man (or woman) not one had anything to brag about.

I'm a serving soldier, I'm on duty tomorrow for the centenary of the armistice (at home), but 100 years ago my great grandfather was on a battlefield in France and no bar stool Fenian is going to make me feel anything but pride in that.

Ah, I wondered when the 'barstool fenians' were going to be introduced.

I don't see any act that is carried out in a war or conflict zone to be particularly heroic tbh.
Pretty base level human activity to be honest that is an indulgence of last resort.

That goes for all that have engaged in it. It might be necessary but 'heroic', no.
This isn't a boys own annual.

Spanish Eyes

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

We need to acklowledge the past and those who died.

This strawman again. We have no problem acknowledging that they fought for the British Empire and all the ignominy which goes with that status. That's never been an issue for those of us who believe in Irish freedom from British rule.

What the apologists for the British Empire want, however, is much more than the Irish merely "acknowledging" these British soldiers: nothing short of a commemoration, at least, of their role as servants for the very boot that has been on the Irish people for centuries. More accurately, the vast majority of these apologists want these footsoldiers of British imperialism to be honoured, to be put on a pedestal as "brave" and the like, by the Irish and an independent Irish state, the very concept which their employer fought for centuries to prevent being realised. They want their British Empire heroes to be rehabilitated in Irish public memory as our heroes.

Ireland has enough genuine heroes in her history, defenders of our world, our people and our Irish tradition, to honour without taking suggestions on this topic from, of all people, apologists for the very British Empire which did so much to bring our people to their knees and keep them there for centuries. Honour defenders of that? Preposterous, risible stuff altogether.

The following lines in 'aisling' form on the wall in the Garden of Remembrance in Dublin are a felicitous and powerful reminder of our debt as a distinctive nation to those who kept the spark of Irishness alive through all the centuries of British colonial dispossession and cultural/intellectual subjugation and humiliation:

"We Saw A Vision"
In the darkness of despair we saw a vision,

We lit the light of hope and it was not extinguished.

In the desert of discouragement we saw a vision.

We planted the tree of valour and it blossomed.

In the winter of bondage we saw a vision.

We melted the snow of lethargy and the river of resurrection flowed from it.

We sent our vision aswim like a swan on the river. The vision became a reality.

Winter became summer. Bondage became freedom and this we left to you as your inheritance.

O generations of freedom remember us, the generations of the vision.

Spanish Eyes

Those Irishmen who died in WW1 were British.

That we remember them as Irish born is wonderful. There is no need to make political capital out of the deaths of so many for so few.

klaaaz

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Those Irishmen who died in WW1 were British.

Is that you Arlene?

Junkyard Tom

corner of hells wrote: »

you can't see that your a minority now , a throw back .

Really? I've been quite amazed by the awakening of the latent Fenian sentiment of the vast majority of the Irish population in the last couple of years.

The affable economist David McWilliams (who is married to a northern Protestant) said recently that his 'inner Provo' was awoken by the behaviour of our bothersome neighbour.

Oh and Irish Republicanism is on the rise in young people according to the polls. No, on the contrary, you pro-empire types are becoming an ever-decreasing oddity.

Mookie Blaylock

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Blinkered thinking?

To be against war mongering, immoral dealing in armaments, belligerent interference in the sovereignty of other nations and the manufacturing of wars is blinkered thinking?

Hmmmm...that concept is not working for me there Mookie.

And that is exactly the type of post that makes right thinking proud Irish people shudder in disgust

FrancieBrady

Mookie Blaylock wrote: »

And that is exactly the type of post that makes right thinking proud Irish people shudder in disgust

Why. Spit it out Mookie and lets see what you have here.

droidman123

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Those Irishmen who died in WW1 were British.

That we remember them as Irish born is wonderful. There is no need to make political capital out of the deaths of so many for so few.

They were not british,you are very wrong.they were from ireland which was under british rule at the time,that does not make them british.i asked you before but you didnt reply,when germany invaded poland,did that mean the polish people where then german? By your "logic" it did

Spanish Eyes

droidman123 wrote: »

They were not british,you are very wrong.they were from ireland which was under british rule at the time,that does not make them british.i asked you before but you didnt reply,when germany invaded poland,did that mean the polish people where then german? By your "logic" it did

At that time they were British, although Irish by birth. I accept that.

Time to move on. But some never will it seems.

Jaysus.

Junkyard Tom

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

At that time they were British.

Because some privileged twat with an army and a flag planted it here a few of hundred years ago?

Cool story.

Spanish Eyes

There is no moving on from all this for some. So sad.

There was a time, the time was then. Different times, different states/countries and so on.

Would any of you personally face up to the relatives of those who died with your chips on shoulder rhetoric. Easy to do anonymously though.

It happened. I am so glad they are at last being remembered.

FrancieBrady

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

At that time they were British, although Irish by birth. I accept that.

Time to move on. But some never will it seems.

Jaysus.

Move on from what?

Junkyard Tom

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

There is no moving on from all this for some. So sad.

They've made it damn hard to ignore alright.

The Rape of Lucretia

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Move on from what?

Being unable to leave you anti-British chip on your shoulder and acknowledge your British heritage, the Irish men who died fighting for the right side, and proud part that Ireland contributed to at least one of the world wars.

FrancieBrady

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Being unable to leave you anti-British chip on your shoulder and acknowledge your British heritage, the Irish men who died fighting for the right side, and proud part that Ireland contributed to at least one of the world wars.

I acknowledge my 'British heritage' by regretting that I have it.

I will not be under pressure to 'move on' from rejecting imperialistic war mongering and interference. That is still going on. In fact the British seem intent on ramping it up at the moment and wrecking this island again in pursuit of their own selfish interest. Like they did in sending foolish and misguided Irish people to their deaths in WW1.
Why should I move on from a disgust of that?

Junkyard Tom

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

anti-British chip on your shoulder.

Hi TROL. Being critical of the British military and its history of torture and murder in Ireland, and abroad, is not anti-British. Please stop conflating the two, good man.

There's plenty of admirable aspects of Britain/British history but their bloody war-mongering past is not one of them.

droidman123

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Being unable to leave you anti-British chip on your shoulder and acknowledge your British heritage, the Irish men who died fighting for the right side, and proud part that Ireland contributed to at least one of the world wars.

By your logic the jews should move on from the anti nazi chip they have on their shoulders

droidman123

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

At that time they were British, although Irish by birth. I accept that.

Time to move on. But some never will it seems.

Jaysus.

You accept they were irish by birth,fair enough,but you still havnt explained what made them british?