Ryanair Strike, Industrial relations discussion Mod note in post 1

View Profile · 12-10-2018 10:17am

Ryanair is stalling the whole union thing for as long as they can.

rivegauche · 12-10-2018 10:22am

Back up your position.

There is no evidence to suggest that is the case.
Strike uncertainty is damaging forward bookings.

The only thing which is certain is that Ryanair will not agree to terms and conditions of employment which undermine their competitive advantage in the market.

View Profile · 12-10-2018 10:30am

From the Financial Times:

Last week Mr O'Leary said he had reluctantly come to accept unionisation, despite once saying "hell would freeze over" before he recognised them. "I have two stances: we will ultimately be unionised"...."and I have accepted that as reality, but for as long as we can postpone unionisation, we would try to postpone unionisation. The two aren't contradictory."

View Profile · 12-10-2018 10:45am

O'Leary is stalling union negotiations for as long as he can. Fact.

The man himself said it!

rivegauche · 12-10-2018 10:48am

He didn't say that. That's your misinterpretation. My interpretation is that he says he is stalling it up until the point a Union empowered by employees present themselves before him and start negotiating.
Some staff may never get to the point where they feel the need to be represented by a Union.

View Profile · 13-10-2018 9:04am

Indo article today:

"Ryanair may face Christmas strikes after Irish and European pilots branded a threat to slash jobs and shut bases a "declaration of war".

The Irish Airline Pilots Association (Ialpa) backed a statement by a European pilot unions body warning of more strikes."

These potential strikes are arising directly from the closure of bases that were involved in previous strikes. Ryanair punishing staff who are lawfully striking for better conditions is unacceptable!

billy few mates · 13-10-2018 9:35am

View Profile wrote: »

Indo article today:

"Ryanair may face Christmas strikes after Irish and European pilots branded a threat to slash jobs and shut bases a "declaration of war".

The Irish Airline Pilots Association (Ialpa) backed a statement by a European pilot unions body warning of more strikes."

These potential strikes are arising directly from the closure of bases that were involved in previous strikes. Ryanair punishing staff who are lawfully striking for better conditions is unacceptable!

Not good news, they really need to get a handle on this...

Brendan Bendar · 13-10-2018 10:01am

billy few mates wrote: »

Not good news, they really need to get a handle on this...

Absolutely...... I would expect a fair bit of airtime and media exposure from FR to try to put a lid on this..

billy few mates · 13-10-2018 11:09am

I'm not even sure if that's legal or how it would actually work.
Normally companies would have some sort of legally binding collective agreement that guarantees industrial harmony for the period of agreement so long as nothing changes.
If the DUB pilots union have signed up to something similar I don't know how they can go wading in to another dispute in another completely different region. They either have an agreement or they haven't but the market needs more certainty than this if they are to have any confidence before booking. Many people would be making their Christmas travel arrangements around now, this is the last thing anybody needs...

rivegauche · 13-10-2018 11:44am

A little bit of balance wouldn't go amiss.
http://atwonline.com/labor/european-pilot-group-demands-ryanair-reverse-base-closures

Ryanair hit back at the ECA statement, with chief marketing officer Kenny Jacobs saying: “The ECA and these pilot unions are silent when Lufthansa, Wizz Air, and Norwegian close bases or cut schedules. The closure of two Ryanair bases in Eindhoven and Bremen, and a reduction from five to three aircraft in Niederrhein is a small but necessary response to these adverse circumstances. Ryanair has already warned that if oil prices continue to rise, or if air fares continue to fall, we cannot rule out further base closures or capacity cuts in Germany or other EU countries.”

Referring to Polloczek, he added: “These regrettable closures are due to adverse market conditions, and we dismiss these false claims made by Lufthansa pilots under the banner of the ECA.”

https://eindhovennews.com/news/2018/10/ryanair-confirms-local-base-will-close/
The Unions are even trying to go to local court in a vain attempt to keep the base open. This is destined to fail as any E.U. company is free to trade from anywhere within the trading union.
The court case is due to be heard on Thursday. https://www.upinthesky.nl/2018/10/12/ryanair-piloten-naar-rechter-wegens-sluiting-eindhoven/

I'm not especially happy with Ver.di at the moment for something extremely nasty and undemocratic they did which specifically affected my company but thankfully this week the Judge put them in their place and that's all I've got to say on that topic here.

reminder: be careful where you book to fly with Ryanair on 1st November. These statements are the prelude to a possible stage-managed planned strike action on 1st Nov and don't you know, the nasty greedy employer will be blamed for it all.

rivegauche · 15-10-2018 9:47am

https://www.mmnews.de/aktuelle-presse/95470-ryanair-wirft-gewerkschaft-mobbing-vor

Marketing chief complains to Ver.di of workplace bullying being carried out by Union members against employees who chose to work during strikes.

Google translate:
The airline Ryanair has accused the union Verdi "mobbing". This is the result of an e-mail from marketing chief Kenny Jacobs to Berlin's left-leaning boss Katina Schubert of 8 October 2018, about which "Bild am Sonntag" reports. Union officials had tried to bully pilots and crew members who did not want to follow Verdi's strike call but wanted to work.
This is "unacceptable", it says in the e-mail.

rivegauche · 18-10-2018 10:22am

One of the few times when Twitter is useful:
https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&q=ryanair%20advocaat&src=typd

Ryanair and Dutch Unions are in Court and a few reporters are twittering as opposed to the usual noise you get from vested interests and sock-puppets.

Ryanair is happy to tell the judge that:
They see limited scope for growth in Holland due to constrained capacity at all airports.
lower aircraft utilisation in Holland due to curfews
45% cost increase
discussion on closure of Eindhoven had been ongoing for a long time, not revenge action.
Contracts signed by Pilots include clause allowing for relocation.
Business operational imperative to be able to open and close bases as the operator sees fit.

Judge asked if they could move to Gatwick which has vacancies but he could never legally direct them to move pilots to Gatwick as that is a separate legal jurisdiction.

LeChienMefiant · 18-10-2018 10:25am

Thanks for the updates Rivegauche, much appreciated.

The CCTV evidence of the crew deception is overwhelming from my perspective. I sympathise with their situation if the airline left them hanging, but their deception is quite unsavoury.

View Profile · 18-10-2018 3:01pm

LeChienMefiant wrote:

The CCTV evidence of the crew deception is overwhelming from my perspective. I sympathise with their situation if the airline left them hanging, but their deception is quite unsavoury.

What deception? The crew spent the night in a crewroom with plastic chairs instead of a hotel bedroom.

LeChienMefiant · 18-10-2018 3:05pm

View Profile wrote: »

What deception? The crew spent the night in a crewroom with plastic chairs instead of a hotel bedroom.

The deception was that the picture was of them sleeping on the floor. It was quite clearly staged as evidenced by the CCTV.

Tenger · 18-10-2018 3:36pm

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

The deception was that the picture was of them sleeping on the floor. It was quite clearly staged as evidenced by the CCTV.

Well with only 8 plastic chairs for 24 adults it stands to reason that some of them were on the floor for part if the 5 hour wait in that Ops room.
So can you 100% say that none of those ppl fell asleep during the night after a long day with disruptions?
Maybe they took sleep shifts in those classroom chairs? 8 at a time with the other 16 standing or sitting on the floor?

The airport lounge was made availible to them after Malaga based crew arrived at 6am. It has also emerged that they werent permitted (by Dublin Ops) to use any retail supplies for refreshment, these were in carts on the aircraft that ferried them back to Porto.

LeChienMefiant · 18-10-2018 3:44pm

Tenger wrote: »

...

I didn't comment on any of that. All I commented on was the deception.

I would add that they are now bleating about their privacy and GDPR etc re the CCTV footage. They chose to pose for this staged photo and created the privacy issue.

I don't think their treatment is defensible, notwithstanding the challenging situation of a weather event. The company is embroiled in a labour dispute and there is a lot of noise from both sides. This episode just serves to illustrate the employees can be just as dishonest as the company.

rivegauche · 18-10-2018 4:06pm

German interview with M O'L where Industrial relations is discussed.
Not a huge amount of new information but the interview is fresh and confirms his current position with regard to industrial relations

http://www.airliners.de/viele-airlines-winter-pleite-interview-ryanair-michael-o-leary/47308

you'll need to use a translator.

I thought it interesting that he mentions they hired 50 pilots from Small Planet which collapsed recently; that should help them to counteract strike action in the next few months if they have any hours free for the current calendar year.

rivegauche · 18-10-2018 4:12pm

https://www.aero.de/news-30211/Neue-Gespraech-zwischen-Ryanair-und-Kabine.html

This german report tallies with the last article and confirms that the German cabin crew union met wtih Ryanair in Berlin today.

rivegauche · 19-10-2018 10:48am

https://www.sudinfo.be/id81037/article/2018-10-19/ryanair-la-compagnie-signe-un-accord-avec-un-syndicat-de-pilotes-portugais
A deal is done with Portuguese pilots. web translator needed if you don't speak French.

FlyBE prop pilots are being poached where possible.

There are a lot of shaky operators which might not make it through Winter so it looks like a steady supply of pilots is beginning to appear but it is early days.

At this stage it appears the Unions are trying to speak collectively to the media but end up negotiating nationally with Ryanair.

This german report which is fairly dull reading indicates it will be easier to form a workers council for staff of airlines in the absence of a formal pay contract which is a very welcome development which safeguards the rights of workers not just in Ryanair but in all airlines which operate in Germany:
http://www.airliners.de/arbeitsminister-heil-betriebsraete-personal/47317

Apart from that there appears to have been 97 base closures this winter and it will be interesting to see how many re-open because it is clear that in general the Pilots won't wear it. Either they get enough pilots willing to sign 5 on, 5 off mobile contracts or these small bases may not be sustainable.

billy few mates · 21-10-2018 10:59am

Very interesting article on yesterday's Financial Times about the current pilot shortage. It suggests the current shortage of experienced senior pilots is still at crisis point despite the collapse of several airlines recently and with the current shortage the advantage is still very much with the pilots who have plenty of jobs to pick and choose from.
It's behind a paywall so I can't post a link to it but if you Google "Airlines boost salaries to combat critical shortage of senior pilots" you should be able to find it.
Maybe this is one reason why the pilots and their unions seem so emboldened...?

Non paywall link to the basic information that is in the FT article
https://myzikk.com/2018/10/20/airlines-boost-salaries-to-combat-critical-shortage-of-senior-pilots/

rivegauche · 24-10-2018 3:50pm

Ryanair recognise a Spanish Pilot union:
http://www.airliners.de/ryanair-gewerkschaft-piloten/47390

Union recognised, negotiations regarding pay and conditions run until 31/1/19

rivegauche · 25-10-2018 8:28pm

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryanair/signs-agreements-belgian-pilot-cabin-crew-unions-cne-csc-lbc-nvk/

Ryanair’s Chief People Officer, Eddie Wilson said:

“We are pleased to have signed this latest CLA covering all of our directly employed pilots and cabin crew in Belgium. These signed union agreements in Belgium, Spain, Portugal and the UK again demonstrate the considerable progress we’re making in concluding union agreements with our people in our major EU markets.

We expect that these new agreements will encourage the cabin crew unions in both Spain and Portugal to remove competitor airline employees (who have been blocking progress) and to quickly conclude cabin crew agreements in those two countries, as that’s what our Portuguese and Spanish cabin crew are now demanding.”

Note they are calling on Portugal and Spanish crew to come to the table which sound to me like they don't think they are anywhere close to reaching agreement in Germany but I could be reading too much in to it.

rivegauche · 27-10-2018 12:36pm

https://www.aero.de/news-30262/Ryanair-und-Verdi-trennen-sich-ergebnislos.html

title says it all: Ryanair and German Union depart without reaching agreement.

The Union Verdi seem to be insisting upon Ryanair directly employing all cabin crew.
Ryanair seem to be happy to use German contracting companies who will give German contracts to Cabin Crew which means crew enjoy standard legal low cost basic healthcare in Germany.
Ryanair will never ever be happy to have a 100% Unionised cabin crew belonging to a Union which has such control over other services at the airports from which they operate and there isn't a Court in the land that would ever compel them to do that as contracting companies are in use everywhere in German industry.

1st November Holiday is almost upon us. The Union need give only 24 hours strike notice but it is uncertain that they'd receive enough support from German based cabin crew and as it is a quiet time of the year elsewhere in Europe Ryanair could probably find enough staff to operate a full schedule.
They need to strike if they believe their demands are achievable.

billy few mates · 27-10-2018 2:53pm

Like I said previously, maybe the Ryanair low cost business model doesn't suit the German labour market where employees don't seem to mind paying higher taxes to be fully integrated into the state support system...?

View Profile · 28-10-2018 9:57pm

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/ryanair-shareholder-calls-for-new-chairman-1.3678740

Looks like some shareholders still want Bonderman and O'Leary gone by next year.

blackwhite · 31-10-2018 11:30am

View Profile wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/ryanair-shareholder-calls-for-new-chairman-1.3678740

Looks like some shareholders still want Bonderman and O'Leary gone by next year.

The pension funds of some higihly unionised local councils in the UK - representing 1% of all shareholders.

As it stands they don't have enough support to actually get the resolution even up for vote.

For Bonderman, I'd be surprised if they didn't manage to gather support to get a resolution on the agenda.

For MOL, I think it could be a stretch for them to even get as far as getting on the agenda, never mind actually winning a vote

rivegauche · 31-10-2018 12:19pm

Seems like there is no strike in Germany tomorrow; nothing on the news wires at this late stage..
I am pleasantly surprised between reformationstag today and All saints tomorrow I expected some sort of action.

This either means that negotiations are going well or the Unions don't appear to have a strong enough hand to call strikes and fear reprisals. I hope for the former.
The Union behaviour during their Industrial action with Lufthansa in recent years were depressing; it seemed like they felt that they had Lufthansa over a barrel due to it's DACH-centric operations model.

https://www.zeit.de/2018/45/ryanair-billigfluglinie-deutsche-gewerkschaft-verdi-streit-sozialplan
The last two paragraphs of this report(German) are interesting in that it points out that
a) Ryanair pilots doing the hours(and they all do) earn more than comparable Eurowings pilots
b) The Unions are talking about severance plans for staff at Bremen so their rhetoric about no base closures appears to be in the past.

billy few mates · 31-10-2018 6:25pm

rivegauche wrote: »

Seems like there is no strike in Germany tomorrow; nothing on the news wires at this late stage..
I am pleasantly surprised between reformationstag today and All saints tomorrow I expected some sort of action.

This either means that negotiations are going well or the Unions don't appear to have a strong enough hand to call strikes and fear reprisals. I hope for the former.

The only mention of a strike in Germany at this time was from you on here.
I just hope all your negativity and scaremongering hasn't put too many people off booking with them. Their forward bookings for this year have already taken quite a hammering with the industrial disputes, the last thing they need is idle speculation on the internet...

rivegauche · 31-10-2018 8:39pm

refreshing angle of attack considering I've been accused of being a Ryanair stooge so many times here on the sub-forum.

https://twitter.com/vcockpit
The pilots union likes using the words Ryanair and Streik on their twitter feed.

it should be safe enough now to book flights to Germany with Ryanair until Christmas as there are no national holidays between now and then.
Book away to your heart's content and I recommend visiting some of the Christmas markets like Nuremberg, Munich, Freiburg and Heidelberg. There are some serious bargains to be had.

Ryanair Strike, Industrial relations discussion Mod note in post 1

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