Ryanair Strike, Industrial relations discussion Mod note in post 1

ted1

Tenger wrote: »

Fair play to them. 8 plastic seats for 24 crew is suitable overnight accomodation for your workers. No need to look after those valuable pieces of walk on equipment.

It’s totally irrelevant, if they have an issue then sir it with management, ir if it’s illegal with the labour courts.
What you don’t do is stage a photo to intentionally damage the company that you work for

Jack1985

ted1 wrote: »

It’s totally irrelevant, if they have an issue then sir it with management, ir if it’s illegal with the labour courts.
What you don’t do is stage a photo to intentionally damage the company that you work for

It's actually an issue with the operating company complying with their obligations under EASA which I recommend you familiarize yourself with.

ted1

Jack1985 wrote: »

It's actually an issue with the operating company complying with their obligations under EASA which I recommend you familiarize yourself with.

I don’t need it. They tried to make the company publicly look bad. That’s a dismissible situation.
Create an IR issue not some tabloid photos.

Jack1985

Ryanair and its Chief Executive Michael O'Leary are being sued in New York by a shareholder accusing the airline of defrauding its investors, and inflating its share price by overstating its ability to manage its labour relations and keep costs down.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1107/1009388-ryanair-lawsuit-new-york/

Jack1985

ted1 wrote: »

I don’t need it. They tried to make the company publicly look bad. That’s a dismissible situation.
Create an IR issue not some tabloid photos.

The company gave themselves a whole load of negative publicity through their own response and doing.

LeChienMefiant

Jack1985 wrote: »

It's actually an issue with the operating company complying with their obligations under EASA which I recommend you familiarize yourself with.

Who determines compliance? What are the sanctions? Why has nothing happened?

Jack1985

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

Who determines compliance? What are the sanctions? Why has nothing happened?

The Irish Aviation Authority carries out a range of operational and regulatory functions, it also ensures licenced civil aviation companies in Ireland operate to EASA and International standards. The IAA usually will not privy itself to inner IR disputes, however the underlying fact remains that Ryanair failed in their duty of care to employees to provide minimum and adequate rest facilities at all stages. The company's own Chief Operations Officer confirmed this;

The Portuguese union SNPVAC made itself available to above appropriate authorities for investigation. No further information regarding this has been appropriated to news media.

https://twitter.com/peterbellew/status/1051580106920079361

LeChienMefiant

Jack1985 wrote: »

The Irish Aviation Authority carries out a range of operational and regulatory functions, it also ensures licenced civil aviation companies in Ireland operate to EASA and International standards. The IAA usually will not privy itself to inner IR disputes, however the underlying fact remains that Ryanair failed in their duty of care to employees to provide minimum and adequate rest facilities at all stages. The company's own Chief Operations Officer confirmed this;

The Portuguese union SNPVAC made itself available to above appropriate authorities for investigation. No further information regarding this has been appropriated to news media.

https://twitter.com/peterbellew/status/1051580106920079361

That is a whole load of nothin'. Until there is even a hint of an investigation, never mind an outcome this is a non story.

Tenger

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

That is a whole load of nothin'. Until there is even a hint of an investigation, never mind an outcome this is a non story.

I would agree. Light touch regulation and all that!
My memory (from about 10 years ago) is that EASA regs provide guidelines on appropriate overnight accommodation for operating crew when stranded in a location. However FR can dodge this guideline as the crew were not actually operating the following day. But the EASA regs also cover definitions for 'home base' and 'away from base' rest periods and locations. Ryanair were responsible for providing appropriate accomodation for their crew, obviously in this situation they did not.
But I cannot see the IAA doing anything about it. Its the same as the bankers and buiders regulating themselves over the last 15 years.

Im going to assume that the crew knew the outcome of their posting the photo online. This does come under 'bringing the company into disrepute" clause of the contracts. So the dismissal doesnt surprise me.

rivegauche

Ryanair and German Cabin Crew union agree terms.

Terms to be voted on by members
re-opening Bremen base is not on the agenda.

German Report:
http://www.airliners.de/ryanair-verdi-eckpunkte-tarifverhandlungen/47606

Ryanair und Verdi einigen sich auf Eckpunkte in Tarifverhandlungen

In den Verhandlungen um Tarifverträge für die rund 1000 deutschen Flugbegleiter von Ryanair haben sich die Airline und die Gewerkschaft Verdi auf ein Eckpunktepapier geeinigt. Wie der Low-Coster am Nachmittag mitteilte, sei die Vereinbarung nun in der gewerkschaftsinternen Abstimmung. Laut Ryanair ist auch ein Sozialplan für die Beschäftigten der kürzlich geschlossenen Basis in Bremen ausgehandelt worden.

Brendan Bendar

Tenger wrote: »

I would agree. Light touch regulation and all that!
My memory (from about 10 years ago) is that EASA regs provide guidelines on appropriate overnight accommodation for operating crew when stranded in a location. However FR can dodge this guideline as the crew were not actually operating the following day. But the EASA regs also cover definitions for 'home base' and 'away from base' rest periods and locations. Ryanair were responsible for providing appropriate accomodation for their crew, obviously in this situation they did not.
But I cannot see the IAA doing anything about it. Its the same as the bankers and buiders regulating themselves over the last 15 years.

Im going to assume that the crew knew the outcome of their posting the photo online. This does come under 'bringing the company into disrepute" clause of the contracts. So the dismissal doesnt surprise me.

Agree

Their first port of call should have been their own HR division or whatever mechanism they could access to discuss their issues.

Posting a ‘faked’ photo on the Internet,to embarrass their company, could really have only one outcome.

rivegauche

More good news:
Italian cabin crew have voted to accept a collective labour agreement with Ryanair.
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryanair/ryanair-signs-agreement-with-german-cabin-crew-union-ver-di/

Recognition agreements have been made in Greece and Sweden.

billy few mates

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Agree

Their first port of call should have been their own HR division or whatever mechanism they could access to discuss their issues.

Posting a ‘faked’ photo on the Internet,to embarrass their company, could really have only one outcome.

Yes, they should never have posed and then Tweeted the picture of themselves sleeping on the floor but it doesn’t alter the fact that this is exactly what they were expected to do...

Widdensushi

billy few mates wrote: »

Yes, they should never have posed and then Tweeted the picture of themselves sleeping on the floor but it doesn’t alter the fact that this is exactly what they were expected to do...

Expected to do by who?Staff are smelling blood and feel a sense of entitlement to get terms above the jobs they agreed to do.Leave the jobs which is effectively what they did and i am sure there is employers lining up for them.Pull a stunt like that and i am sure there are less options.

ThunbergsAreGo

Widdensushi wrote: »

Expected to do by who?Staff are smelling blood and feel a sense of entitlement to get terms above the jobs they agreed to do.Leave the jobs which is effectively what they did and i am sure there is employers lining up for them.Pull a stunt like that and i am sure there are less options.

Where were they meant to sleep?

View Profile

Widdensushi wrote:

Staff are smelling blood and feel a sense of entitlement to get terms above the jobs they agreed to do.

What an utter load of krap Sushi!

Staff are standing up for themselves. Being treated like dirt isn't what they signed up for. Get off your high horse once and a while maybe.

Brendan Bendar

View Profile wrote: »

What an utter load of krap Sushi!

Staff are standing up for themselves. Being treated like dirt isn't what they signed up for. Get off your high horse once and a while maybe.

Could I suggest that there are legitimate ways of standing up for oneself in a dispute with your employer rather than faking stuff on social media.

View Profile

Brendan Bendar wrote:

Could I suggest that there are legitimate ways of standing up for oneself in a dispute with your employer rather than faking stuff on social media.

This wasn't a union strategy.

A bunch of 22 year olds were left to spend the night in a crewroom instead of a hotel room. They were rightly pissed off at their employer and decided to lie on the floor to emphasise the situation they were left in. Someone took a photo of it, presumably to share amongst their cabincrew colleagues but it got out and went viral.
Very unfortunate for them and yes it was foolish but their was nothing sinister behind their actions.

uptherebels

View Profile wrote: »

What an utter load of krap Sushi!

Staff are standing up for themselves. Being treated like dirt isn't what they signed up for. Get off your high horse once and a while maybe.

Then why not get a picture when they were actually asleep on the floor instead of staging it?

View Profile

uptherebels wrote:

Then why not get a picture when they were actually asleep on the floor instead of staging it?

Who would have taken it?!

Brendan Bendar

View Profile wrote: »

This wasn't a union strategy.

A bunch of 22 year olds were left to spend the night in a crewroom instead of a hotel room. They were rightly pissed off at their employer and decided to lie on the floor to emphasise the situation they were left in. Someone took a photo of it, presumably to share amongst their cabincrew colleagues but it got out and went viral.
Very unfortunate for them and yes it was foolish but their was nothing sinister behind their actions.

With all due respect I’m sure most aircrew with any experience might have experienced that situation at some stage in their careers.

Not suggesting there was anything “sinister” about it but it was not a wise decision.

Sacking was a very harsh punishment too, I would suggest.

gordongekko

I'd say Ryanair will lose the case at the wrc or its European version due to gdpr. I doubt Ryanair have permission to process the cameras in the manner

Tenger

gordongekko wrote: »

I'd say Ryanair will lose the case at the wrc or its European version due to gdpr. I doubt Ryanair have permission to process the cameras in the manner

I would think otherwise. Cameras in a secure area isnt unusual. And the company would have notices up to ensure everyone knows that there are cameras.

blackwhite

gordongekko wrote: »

I'd say Ryanair will lose the case at the wrc or its European version due to gdpr. I doubt Ryanair have permission to process the cameras in the manner

Ryanair might get in GDPR bother over publishing the CCTV to the general public.

There's nothing in GDPR that means that CCTV footage that proves wrongdoing by an employee is inadmissible in disciplinary hearings.

billy few mates

Ryanair said that staging this photograph and posting it on social media had damaged it's reputation. Sacking the individuals involved has clearly restored that reputation.

Widdensushi

billy few mates wrote: »

Ryanair said that staging this photograph and posting it on social media had damaged it's reputation. Sacking the individuals involved has clearly restored that reputation.

It will send a message to any other staff thinking of doing something similar

LeChienMefiant

billy few mates wrote: »

Ryanair said that staging this photograph and posting it on social media had damaged it's reputation. Sacking the individuals involved has clearly restored that reputation.

Share price is doing OK.

Brendan Bendar

billy few mates wrote: »

Ryanair said that staging this photograph and posting it on social media had damaged it's reputation. Sacking the individuals involved has clearly restored that reputation.

What is that reputation.... of providing cheap fares and opening up travel opportunities unheard of back in the day.

Let’s get real here , to provide fares like that a company has to be ruthless on costs, every cent counts in that business model.

The traveling public have bought into that model, they want low fares and have voted with arses on seats.

Now here’s the deal, to expect a company like that to tolerate what those staff did is unrealistic.Thats how it rolls Billy.

I’m not a fan of the FR model of customer service, but, one cannot complain about how staff are treated, by your standards, and still use the airline.

Now that’s not you personally , I’m speaking of the general traveling public.

If you travel FR you complicity endorse their operational model.

It’s that simple, let’s have no ‘champagne socialist’ attitude here, where we criticize the company but have no problem using their services, ecause it saves us money.

Not suggesting that you personally use FR but there are plenty of wassicks who do and keep bleating about how the staff are treated.

Load of bollox that, if you object that much,don’t use.

Simples.

L1011

I'm fairly certain the "Ryanair are cheap and reliable" reputation was long since gone. The competition-driven move to using main airports and less utilisation driven flight times has shredded the cost bit and the strikes have done for reliable. They had no other positive reputation - "reliable bastards" was the term used on here, they've lost one word anyway!

I check prices - not just via SkyScanner which often gives inaccurately good prices for Ryanair due to caching prices for up to a day - and have a margin above FR prices I will pay for any other airline at all due to FR's customer "service". In the past year, FR have usually been dearer than a competitor and have rarely even troubled the margin. My one FR r/t, on a non-competitive route, was delayed on the return in to EU261 margins due to staffing issues (not strikes) and ended up being cost-positive to me.

My next booked r/t is to RIX, where KLM were cheaper enough to cover the opportunity cost of the transfer time - let alone the value of the free food and drink and Skyteam points. r/t for two was three figures cheaper on a "high cost" legacy airline, with a transfer. This is the new normal for Ryanair.

john boye

billy few mates wrote: »

Ryanair said that staging this photograph and posting it on social media had damaged it's reputation. Sacking the individuals involved has clearly restored that reputation.

Remember when MOL used to always say there's no such thing as bad publicity? I guess there is.