Ryanair Strike, Industrial relations discussion Mod note in post 1

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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ryanair-unions-idUSKCN1PA1P0

Ryanair l pilot unions in several countries have suspended talks with management in protest at what they see as the airline using the threat of base closures as a bargaining tool in labor talks, the European Cockpit Association (ECA) said on Wednesday.

rivegauche

Reportedly Ryanair are dragging their heels on implementation of agreements in Germany
http://www.airliners.de/ryanair-arbeitsrecht-piloten-deutschland/48614
german content

I'd guess the pilots are happy enough to remain patient for the moment as they are getting the pay increase and aren't being messed around too much.

Laudamotion looms over everything so if Ryanair crews act up then they'll not only have to fear about being replaced from another base but also the route being handed over to Laudamotion.
The labour market for pilots is showing signs of softening too.

Ryanair and Pilots are probably somewhat satisfied if not totally happy but I'd expect Vereinigung Cockpit is hopping mad but unable to find willing pilots to man the picket line.

rugbyman

Few questions . Boardsies

While I am generally no fan of workers hurting their employers business, and am in favour of workers taking their undoubted talents to a rival company for
more money.
my first question is how come so many strikes lately happen before negotiation. I speak of, out of my head, Dublin Bus, Luas, Ryanair pilots
teachers and now nurses. In school ,like 55 years ago ,I seem to recall hearing that strikes were to be a last resort when negotiation had failed


Sercond question, more relevant here, is What was the outcome of the IRISH
Ryanair pilots strike, this whole thread was started regarding it ,but either the outcome was kept secret or I dozed off for a while

Regards

rivegauche

The Irish based pilots got very decent pay rises, some needed clarity/certainty as to their futures and at the same time saw the plight of staff in failed airlines around Europe...they also saw Ryanair doing what could perhaps be interpreted as making cautionary tales of especially militant workers and bases.
While I wouldn't say they are "happy with their lot" any person intelligent enough to be able to qualify as and get employed commercial airline pilot is intelligent enough to know when to push forward and when to hold their ground.

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rugbyman wrote:

my first question is how come so many strikes lately happen before negotiation. I speak of, out of my head, Dublin Bus, Luas, Ryanair pilots teachers and now nurses. In school ,like 55 years ago ,I seem to recall hearing that strikes were to be a last resort when negotiation had failed

In all those mentioned cases they are a last resort as management have been unwilling to engage in any constructive dialogue. Industrial action is generally the last option to desperate staff.

rugbyman wrote:

Sercond question, more relevant here, is What was the outcome of the IRISH Ryanair pilots strike...

Negotiations between Irish and the majority of European pilot unions have ceased as Ryanair are continuing their old intimidation tricks by threatening staff.

In Ireland, the third party mediator brought in to further talks has resulted in stalled negotiations as Ryanair management are unwilling to acknowledge pilot grievances or bring in positive change.

It's unfortunately looking like another Summer of discontent.

billie1b

Ryanairs Irish pilots being moved to a 5/3 roster from 01st of March instead of their normal 5/4 as punishment for not accepting Ryanairs proposals towards their pay and work agreements during their industrial action.

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billie1b wrote:

Ryanairs Irish pilots being moved to a 5/3 roster from 01st of March instead of their normal 5/4 as punishment for not accepting Ryanairs proposals towards their pay and work agreements during their industrial action.

April 1st but yeah it's more intimidation from Ryanair.
Imagine being punished by your employer for not accepting a pay increase.

billie1b

View Profile wrote: »

April 1st but yeah it's more intimidation from Ryanair.
Imagine being punished by your employer for not accepting a pay increase.

Sorry I meant April 01st, I know, it’s becoming a joke in there now, their way or no way

rivegauche

https://www.reuters.com/article/ryanair-belgium-pilots/belgian-pilots-overwhelmingly-back-ryanair-pay-and-conditions-deal-idUSL5N20A5GG

Belgian pilots overwhelmingly back Ryanair pay and conditions deal.

LeChienMefiant

billie1b wrote: »

Sorry I meant April 01st, I know, it’s becoming a joke in there now, their way or no way

Sounds like the Irish pilots over played their hand.

rivegauche

billie1b wrote: »

Ryanairs Irish pilots being moved to a 5/3 roster from 01st of March instead of their normal 5/4 as punishment for not accepting Ryanairs proposals towards their pay and work agreements during their industrial action.

Hmmm, who to believe?
https://www.pilots-unite.com/54-vs-53-roster-why-it-benefits-ryanair/

rivegauche

https://www.aero.de/news-31085/Cockpit-Tarifvertraege-mit-Ryanair-im-Maerz.html
German text.

German based Ryanair pilots will be entering their new negotiated contracts this month.
The base pay rates being increased appear to be the most notable part of the agreement.

rivegauche

https://www.upinthesky.nl/2019/03/20/ryanair-mag-nl-crew-niet-ontslaan-wegens-economische-redenen/
Dutch text

Redundancy/Transfer of Dutch crew rumbles on. Ryanair naturally appeals while Crew put their own lives on hold.

rivegauche

https://www.ad.nl/economie/piloten-naar-de-rechter-eisen-schadevergoeding-en-willen-weg-bij-ryanair~a1ecc1fc/

Dutch Text.

The Pilots Union now want to go to court to be made redundant with punitive penalties to be paid by Ryanair that would have been payable if Ryanair had unfairly dismissed them which is something that Ryanair have not done.

Shop Stewards from other Dutch airlines must be loving this.

Audacity squared.

billy few mates

rivegauche wrote: »

https://www.ad.nl/economie/piloten-naar-de-rechter-eisen-schadevergoeding-en-willen-weg-bij-ryanair~a1ecc1fc/

Dutch Text.

The Pilots Union now want to go to court to be made redundant with punitive penalties to be paid by Ryanair that would have been payable if Ryanair had unfairly dismissed them which is something that Ryanair have not done.

Shop Stewards from other Dutch airlines must be loving this.

Audacity squared.

I don't read Dutch but I'm guessing that Dutch employment law would have something similar to our own constructive dismissal?
I worked there for a number of years on and off as a contractor but the local employees seemed to be pretty well protected in all aspects of their employment (sick pay, pensions, social insurance, health and safety etc) so I would imagine they have this well covered.
Maybe this is what they're talking about...

rivegauche

https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article190730641/Billigflieger-Deutsche-Behoerden-erlauben-Ryanair-billige-Leih-Flugbegleiter.html

German Text

German authorities confirm that Ryanair can legitimately use contracting cabin crew staff i.e. crewlink.

rivegauche

http://www.airliners.de/verdi-tarifeinigung-ryanair-kabinenpersonal/49443

German text.

Ryanair conclude labour agreement with Union for cabincrew.

The end of the article is of interest as it reports that negotiation with Pilots is almost complete and includes elements for dedicated representation and standardization of practices for reallocation of pilots when bases are closed/downsized.

Salary increase of 600 with another 250 possible on top.
https://verkehr.verdi.de/themen/nachrichten/++co++9993cd10-5073-11e9-ad5f-525400f67940

rivegauche

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2019/04/ryanair-ordered-to-pay-dutch-pilots-up-to-e480000/

A District court rules that the 8 pilots whose actions made dozens of their co-workers in their base redundant should be paid between 380k and 480k each and have their contracts terminated.

Obviously this will be appealed and taken out of the hands of the local Court.

Every airline with a base in the Netherlands will want Ryanair to fight this otherwise the Unions will be in a state of constant industrial unrest so that their employees will be un-sackable while industrial action is ongoing.

trellheim

Hold on a second - that is worded like a quote from the article and there is no such quote.

In fact - and I quote -

The district court in Den Bosch then ruled there was no business case to shut the base and said the decision had ‘all the appearance of a sanction following the earlier strikes.’

The court also agreed to dissolve the eight pilot’s contracts from May 1, arguing that there is no likelihood of a ‘purposeful continuation’ and that Ryanair is to blame for the current situation.

which is 180 degrees the opposite direction

LiamaDelta

trellheim wrote:

Hold on a second - that is worded like a quote from the article and there is no such quote.

Beware of the predominantly single-issue posters!

Brendan Bendar

LiamaDelta wrote: »

Beware of the predominantly single-issue posters!

Beware vested interest single issue posters.......:cool:

devnull

rivegauche wrote: »

A District court rules that the 8 pilots whose actions made dozens of their co-workers in their base redundant should be paid between 380k and 480k each and have their contracts terminated.

Obviously this will be appealed and taken out of the hands of the local Court.

Every airline with a base in the Netherlands will want Ryanair to fight this otherwise the Unions will be in a state of constant industrial unrest so that their employees will be un-sackable while industrial action is ongoing.

Maybe I'm missing something, but if a commercial, non state owned business wants to cease trading at a certain location and make their staff redundant, then why should the courts interfere with a private enterprises commercial decisions and say that they disagree with that decision and therefore Ryanair are not allowed to make commercial decisions of this like?

I would totally get it, if Ryanair was a state company and they held a share and they were opposed to this and would try and vote it down and make a fuss about it, but courts deciding that they don't like a commercial decision a company makes so will over-ride it to me is a court that is interfering far too much in the operations of a company.

rivegauche

This isn't the first time Union Members in an industry have set about constructively getting themselves dismissed. Their Colleagues were collateral damage along the way.
It might not have been their original intention but once it became clear they were never going to be able to have a career with Ryanair after agitating themselves in to a corner their objective turned to getting a pay-off.

IngazZagni

I’m delighted for those pilots and hope they find good jobs elsewhere. Ryanair yet again showed their true colours in this instance. They had forced the pilots to sign a document that they were “voluntarily” moving location. Of course how could it be voluntary if they had no choice? This meant Ryanair wouldn’t have had to pay compensation. The pilots that rejected this assertion that they were voluntarily moving were sacked.

rivegauche

IngazZagni wrote: »

I’m delighted for those pilots and hope they find good jobs elsewhere.

Which Western Airline will employ these pilots who have Solicitors and Shop Stewards on speed dial?

IngazZagni

rivegauche wrote: »

Which Western Airline will employ these pilots who have Solicitors and Shop Stewards on speed dial?

Perhaps at the heavily unionised KLM.

rivegauche

IngazZagni wrote: »

Perhaps at the heavily unionised KLM.

KLM may be rotten with unions but they haven't got to the stage where HR have to employ who the Unions tell them to employ.

L1011

Closing thread for mod review