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Peter Casey believes Travellers should not be recognised as an ethnic minority

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    #6032
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,145 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    normanoffside wrote: »
    I don't understand the constant babbling on about Left and right regarding travellers and social welfare spongers.

    I have read Karl Marx, and his theories are about the nationalising the means of production and giving fair pay to all workers.
    There is nothing there about free housing and welfare payments if you chose not to work. In fact I have been to Cuba during Castro's time and those who refuse to work are homeless and destitute.

    under a proper leftist system everyone is in fact expected to work.

    Correct.

    In Sweden/DK, benefits may be high, but they are stricter than here.

    Long-term unemployment is much lower than here.

    People aren't allowed wallow on welfare for years, they are actively helped back to education / employment.


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    #6033
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    No. They don't.
    As any trip to most Irish beaches on a Summer evening will demonstrate.

    Or is it Travellers leaving all the litter?

    Whatever. I’m not really interested to engage you because you’re either a traveller or an apologist.


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    #6034
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    He wouldnt if he was elected but sure anyway...

    Perhaps we can blame the "settled folk" for throwing his leaflets over the hedge in traveller areas eh ?


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    #6035
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Did you miss the claim that 99.9% of Irish people don't break the law?
    EVER.

    The poster said that: "99.9 % of the population dont need anyone to enforce the laws that are there so we can have a civilised society" (emphasis added).

    Civilized society isn't going to break down if you do 51 km/h in a 50 km/h zone or fail to pay your TV license, even if these things are against the law. There are numerous petty laws on the books that don't have anything to do with preserving a civilized society.

    On the other hand, if everyone in Ireland lived as Travellers do, few would get an education, few would work, few would pay taxes, and nationwide rates of assault, homicide, domestic abuse, theft, and property damage would go through the roof. We would indeed see a breakdown of civilized society.


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    #6036
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,145 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Be that as it may - Traveller's are not exempt from the laws of the State - nor should they be! - and it is also a fact that a blind eye is often turned to illegal activities carried out by non-Travellers.

    They are as good as exempt because :
    a) employees of state agencies like EPA, local councils, Dept of Education, Social Welfare, etc refuse to challenge them out of fear, yes fear.

    b) Garda often refuse to deal with them because of the hassel and as soon as they do you will have Pavee point and the usual supporters often jumping up and down

    c) even when Garda do something the legal system is way too lax and judges throw out supposedly harst sentences that have sizable built in suspensions already added as in the case of the scum that attacked the Corcoran family in Tipperary.
    And yes that appleis to non travellers as well.
    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Lack of accountability is endemic across all Irish society.

    Who is saying otherwise. Look at our HSE for prime example.
    Technocentral wrote: »
    Im 50, travelled to every continent on Earth.

    You didn't appear to learn much if you still think Ireland is some great beacon that the world is waiting for to set the moral tone. :rolleyes:
    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Sweetest divine :rolleyes:

    Every section of society breaks the law.
    Most likely every one has broken some law or other at some time (speeding/littering).

    People here are acting like all criminality in Ireland is down to Travellers. It patently is not.

    NO ONE SAID ANY SUCH THING.

    But only a fool or an apologist would refuse to acknowledge that criminality is now an endemic part of the current traveller way of life.


    Some people blame society and the organs of the state as to why criminality is so widespread in traveller community.
    It is never down to travellers themselves.

    It is the exact same argument at play when one discusses non integration of people from a certain religious background.
    It is always the fault of society which of course should do more, and it is never the fault of the people concerned.

    It is almost a type of arrogance and superiority that actually sees these groups as being incapable of helping themselves and bettering themselves.

    People, all people, should be held responsible for their own failings not given a free pass that it is the fault of society at large.


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    #6037
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    irishproduce wrote: »
    If you are voting Peter Casey today, then consider giving him number and do not enter any other preferences.

    If you enter preferences for 2, 3, 4 etc then those persons could benefit from your transfers.
    If you want to maximise the benefit of your vote for Casey then only enter a number 1 preference and nothing else.

    That was no transfers go to anyone else.




    Ehhh,


    Retarded advice to be fair. You obviously don't understand how STV works.


    While one is free to do what you suggest, it is of no benefit to them to do so. Voting only for one candidate neither increases nor decreases the chances that that #1 choice will get elected compared to putting in an additional 2,3,4,5



    However, by giving someone a "2" means that your vote can still count towards the election once it has already been decided/proven that the election of your #1 is impossible.


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    #6038
    xckjoo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,353 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Protest vote against being gagged by a compliant media on ANYTHING they don't agree with, together with a kick off against the order from Vlad as to how to vote. Together with trying to swing the pendulum a bit more towards those who get up in the morning and pay for everything, but get nothing.

    Casey will not win, but if enough of us give him a no.1 scratch, the next Dail Election may turn out to be interesting. The people have spoken.

    Hmmph, a fiver + Christmas bonus to the non workers and a euro or two to those paying for it. No wonder people are fed up and a bit riled. Casey has given permission to speak at last.

    Maybe.


    Ah lads. Grow up and learn how democracy works. Go bug the local politicians that you can vote for and might actually end up in a position to change things. They fall all over themselves to keep people happy so they get votes. Has there ever been a case of a protest vote achieving anything? All this will do is make more politicians make wild and outrageous statements to try and trick people into voting for them. Make them work for your vote. Actual work, not just coming up with headline grabbers. How many Travellers do you think Casey encounters in his life? He just stumbled on a something that got him some headlines and now he got his publicity.


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    #6039
    Gravelly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Again you have to be rude.

    I am in favour of the law being enforced equally across all sections of society.
    Funny - I say that and you call me a hypocrite why extolling Casey for, apparently, calling for Travellers to be treated equally.

    Some one isn't being consistent and it's ain't me bub.

    I am not hypocritical enough to claim settled people don't commit crimes or to claim some settled people don't get away with breaking the law - or were, for example, those penalty points the some guards made go away belonging to Travellers?

    Again, I'm not being rude when I call you out as a liar and a hypocrite, I am being honest. I'm not surprised you can't recognise honesty when you see it.


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    #6040
    Tipsy McSwagger
    Registered Users Posts: 9,065 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    Just voted for Casey


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    #6041
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    RaichuMGS wrote: »
    Whatever. I’m not really interested to engage you because you’re either a traveller or an apologist.

    Then don't.

    Oh you just did to tell me you weren't.

    Feel better now you got that off your chest plus a little dig to make you feel empowered?

    And they say it's the left that wants to shut down discussion :rolleyes:


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    #6042
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Trevor Tight Plantation wrote: »
    The poster said that: "99.9 % of the population dont need anyone to enforce the laws that are there so we can have a civilised society" (emphasis added).

    Civilized society isn't going to break down if you do 51 km/h in a 50 km/h zone or fail to pay your TV license, even if these things are against the law. There are numerous petty laws on the books that don't have anything to do with preserving a civilized society.

    On the other hand, if everyone in Ireland lived as Travellers do, few would get an education, few would work, few would pay taxes, and nationwide rates of assault, homicide, domestic abuse, theft, and property damage would go through the roof. We would indeed see a breakdown of civilized society.

    Oh so if we are civilised we get to choose which laws we keep?
    Nice.

    And I'm sure those in the front line will be delighted to hear that if we just got rid of Travellers there would be hardly any more cases of assault, homicide, domestic abuse, theft, and property damage.


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    #6043
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »
    Just voted for Casey
    Excellent Vote .


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    #6044
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Then don't.

    Oh you just did to tell me you weren't.

    Feel better now you got that off your chest plus a little dig to make you feel empowered?

    And they say it's the left that wants to shut down discussion :rolleyes:

    Well it is.


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    #6045
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Gravelly wrote: »
    Again, I'm not being rude when I call you out as a liar and a hypocrite, I am being honest. I'm not surprised you can't recognise honesty when you see it.

    Good man.

    Sterling example of civilised discussion.

    Rather than debate - name call.


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    #6046
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Oh so if we are civilised we get to choose which laws we keep?
    Nice.

    And I'm sure those in the front line will be delighted to hear that if we just got rid of Travellers there would be hardly any more cases of assault, homicide, domestic abuse, theft, and property damage.

    Not "hardly any more" but in many areas a ****load fewer, plus the Gardai would be freed up from having to send 20 lads to cover a ****ing baptism so actually you know, prevent rapes and murders.


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    #6047
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Good man.

    Sterling example of civilised discussion.

    Rather than debate - name call.
    You can’t really debate with someone who keeps deflecting, like your good self


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    #6048
    hill16bhoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭hill16bhoy


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Then don't.

    Oh you just did to tell me you weren't.

    Feel better now you got that off your chest plus a little dig to make you feel empowered?

    And they say it's the left that wants to shut down discussion :rolleyes:
    "Liberal dictatorship", or something.

    These lads must be gobbling up the neanderthal Stephen Yaxley-Lennon playbook of imagined victimhood. It's hilarious.

    Not one of them has a clue about what dictatorship or athoritarianism is. That's why they're all strongly in favour of it.

    The way you solve entirely imagined dictatorship is with real dictatorship, or something.


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    #6049
    mikemac2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭mikemac2


    jmayo wrote: »
    They are as good as exempt because :
    a) employees of state agencies like EPA, local councils, Dept of Education, Social Welfare, etc refuse to challenge them out of fear, yes fear.

    Indeed :(

    The Kylemore Rd in Dublin sometimes has black smoke across it. Thick and heavy and would leave you coughing. Ah the guys in Labre Park with their wire

    Dublin has a decades old bylaw about smokeless fuel and there are plently of environmental procedures covering this also but it’ll never be tackled. As said ^^^ the agencies are fearful

    Much easier to send a letter threatening fines to a householder burning leaves or a farmer having a fire on his own land in the countryside


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    #6050
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Again - if this is true - it is a failure by the State to enforce the laws.

    So no responsibility on people to obey the laws then. It's all the State's fault. :confused:


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    #6051
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    So no responsibility on people to obey the laws then. It's all the State's fault. :confused:
    The Gymnastics these posters will pull to defend the indefence-able is truly fascinating !


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    #6052
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Oh so if we are civilised we get to choose which laws we keep?
    Nice.

    You're ignoring the evident reality that there are different categories and degrees of lawbreaking. Somebody who drops a crisp packet on the street could be described as a "lawbreaker" just as much as somebody who shoots a man in the back of the head. Therefore, it's not a particularly meaningful noun -- unless your intent is to be pedantic.
    And I'm sure those in the front line will be delighted to hear that if we just got rid of Travellers there would be hardly any more cases of assault, homicide, domestic abuse, theft, and property damage.

    Those on the front line would, I assume, freely acknowledge that incidents of homicide, assault, domestic abuse, theft, and property damage in Ireland disproportionately involve Travellers. How else do you explain the fact that 0.6 percent of the population are Travellers, but they make up 10 percent of the male prison population and 22 percent of the female prison population?


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    #6053
    homerjay2005
    Registered Users Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    low voting turnout can be bad for casey in the sense that alot of his support is online support and people wont actually bother voting.


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    #6054
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Evie Fit Tuna wrote: »
    You can’t really debate with someone who keeps deflecting, like your good self

    So name calling then become acceptable?
    And a queue forms to justify that.

    Lovely and civilised.

    No-one is forcing anyone to engage with me.
    People's decision to engage in name calling is their own.


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    #6055
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    I find it really odd, that the tactics of the "left" seem to be reminiscent of those used by the right.

    Its going to make the next GE interesting. If Casey gets 10% of the vote, we will see some different candidates going forward. The debates about that election will certainly be interesting as those will be people with power to make the changes.

    In this country,
    We need to use revenue to investigate a bit more(why is dole recipient driving an 181)
    We need the dept. of social protection to be reformed in a way that we reduce the amount of lifers on the dole.
    We need more prisons.
    We need more judges, and tougher sentencing(especially for those who have multiply previous convictions)
    We also need more affordable housing, not necessarily socially housing.
    Maybe we should try as a country move some jobs to the midlands, were there seems to be a lot of cheap housing.


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    #6056
    knipex
    Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭knipex


    xckjoo wrote: »
    Are people voting for Casey as a "protest vote" against Travellers or is there something else I'm missing?

    Your missing quite a bit really.

    This post amongst others


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    #6057
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    So no responsibility on people to obey the laws then. It's all the State's fault. :confused:

    Where did I say that?

    I didn't.


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    #6058
    knipex
    Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭knipex


    Technocentral wrote: »
    No, just that, sad isnt it?

    So you don't read any posts that disagree with you ??

    Multiple posters (this one for example) and posts have shown that's not true but you continue to misinterpret and misconstrue


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    #6059
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Where did I say that?

    I didn't.

    Oh you did at least twice!

    Take a leaf from Casey's book and stand with your words!


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    #6060
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    blanch152 wrote: »
    10% from nowhere would be comparable to the 12% of the PDs starting with established TDs.

    It would be more than Sinn Fein have ever got in any general election except the last one. It would be more than the Greens have ever got in any general election. It would be more than the PBP have ever got in any general election.

    I notice you use the term ‘general election’ a couple of times there. This is a presidential election so his 10% (if he gets that) means jack sh*t tbh. Lets see some real policies from him should he want to stay in political life. His ‘20 meg ah shur musha it’ll be grand’ quote as regards the NBP wasn’t the best start in fairness.


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    #6061
    marknjb
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭marknjb


    just back from voting no 1 casey the wife gave him no 1 as well


This discussion has been closed.
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